Who's yer daddy? No daddy; no check

[Two Thumbs]

I knew a woman that had 4 kids by 3 different men.

She had a 3 bedroom house with a front and back yard, lr eat in kitchen. She had to pay $25/month for it.
She never worked, so the money came from welfare.

One day she announced that she was going to be rich! He oldest, a girl that just turned 12, was put in charge of the "daycare" she just opened in "her" home.

That's right, she put her kids to work babysitting in an illegal daycare that was operating illegally out of gubmit housing. She didn't do anything with any of the kids, but she collected lots of money for nothing and still paid $25/month in rent.

Yeah, that's the kind of people our money goes to. This brave single mom struggle to make it, is more myth than reality.

It is very easy to find anecdotal stories about abuses. And I have no doubt there are instances of abuse for which the perps should be prosecuted. But you can't punish needy people because some people are idiots.... same as you wouldn't punish every financial advisor because bernie madoff was.

true, very true.

I was using that as a case in point that fraud and abuse is far far more common than not.
I reported this person, as well as my neighbor that lived on SS disability b/c he ahd a bad back, but could still say he did powerlifting as a hobby, to the authorities. Nothing was done in either case.

Welfare and housing need to be gone through with a fine tooth comb to weed these people out.

Imagine what could be done with entitlments if fraud was lowered. [I'm not nieve enough to think we can rid it of fraud]

 

[Ringel05]

why should the child suffer cause the mother is a ho? its not the mother you are punishing but the child.

You'd be surprised.

 

[Two Thumbs]

It is very easy to find anecdotal stories about abuses. And I have no doubt there are instances of abuse for which the perps should be prosecuted. But you can't punish needy people because some people are idiots.... same as you wouldn't punish every financial advisor because bernie madoff was.

Needy people my ass. If these s-called needy fucks would take responsibility for themselves and their actions then they wouldn't need us taxpayers supporting them. Truth is these needy pukes are nothing but a bunch of lazy bums that have no sense of pride or dignity.

Tell me counselor, how long would you pay a person for not working before you decided it was time for that person to find a job, any job!

if we wanted them to work and get off welfare, we'd a) fund education/training programs for single mothers; while b) providing daycare; and c) not require them to pay the welfare back that they collected during the time period.

you can't tell someone they have to pay back welfare from a minimum wage job that won't sustain them.

as for "so called needy"... i'm not even going to address that because i think that attitude is a bunch of wingnuttery. but assuming it had any validity, what are you going to to to make daddy ante up some bucks? she didn't have her kids by mitosis.

I'm all for cutting welfare/housing and putting that money to education grants. Not free daycare, people need to take care of thier own or find freinds and family that can help out.

payback welfare? they can do that by becoming a tax paying citizen. When people start to see how much is taken out of thier check, and how hard they worked to get to that check, they will start to bitch about people not working for a living.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

It is very easy to find anecdotal stories about abuses. And I have no doubt there are instances of abuse for which the perps should be prosecuted. But you can't punish needy people because some people are idiots.... same as you wouldn't punish every financial advisor because bernie madoff was.

Needy people my ass. If these s-called needy fucks would take responsibility for themselves and their actions then they wouldn't need us taxpayers supporting them. Truth is these needy pukes are nothing but a bunch of lazy bums that have no sense of pride or dignity.

Tell me counselor, how long would you pay a person for not working before you decided it was time for that person to find a job, any job!

if we wanted them to work and get off welfare, we'd a) fund education/training programs for single mothers; while b) providing daycare; and c) not require them to pay the welfare back that they collected during the time period.

you can't tell someone they have to pay back welfare from a minimum wage job that won't sustain them.

as for "so called needy"... i'm not even going to address that because i think that attitude is a bunch of wingnuttery. but assuming it had any validity, what are you going to to to make daddy ante up some bucks? she didn't have her kids by mitosis.

We didn't force them to become single mothers, so why should we have to pay for some special program to educate their stupid butts or daycare to support their children?

Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the choices they've made in life?

To get them off of welfare is to stop giving it to them and tell them they are own their own! They need to find the idiot that knocked them up and make him pay. And in the meantime they need to keep their legs crossed.

 

[Granny]

Did anyone ever hear of brith control??

If your someone who engages in sex use birth control or demand your partner wear a condom.

Imagine how much that would save the taxpayers of America.

Imagine how much better the ladies would feel if they didn't have to worry about getting pregnant.

Just plain old common sense. Jeeze.

condoms are not 100% effective, and I have two friends who got pregnant while on birth control.

Condoms are not 100% effective but birth control pills are a good 98-99% effective. It is true that some women have additional children because welfare payments are based on the number of people in the household. It's also true that some women have financial help in addition to welfare by way of unreported "live-ins" or "ex"-husbands that still live in the household. They can't feed their kids but they can afford to get their hair braided and woven (an expensive proposition) and get manicures and pedicures on an on-going basis.

There has to be a system change. Forced sterilization is not an option (yet), but when they first apply for welfare and already have two or three children they should be presented with a consent form that is very clearly explained to them - they must use birth control pills OR if they become pregnant again they consent to have tubal ligation after childbirth and would not receive additional welfare support for the new child. The choice to comply is still with the woman. It would be no different than the way any of us sign a medical consent form before surgery saying we will accept blood transfusions or have additional surgery if during the initial surgery something else is discovered.

What we're doing now is not sustainable - sooner or later the pot is going to boil dry. Welfare essentially does nothing to help anybody rise above it - there is no incentive toward self-betterment.

 

[jillian]

We didn't force them to become single mothers, so why should we have to pay for some special program to educate their stupid butts or daycare to support their children?

Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the choices they've made in life?

To get them off of welfare is to stop giving it to them and tell them they are own their own! They need to find the idiot that knocked them up and make him pay. And in the meantime they need to keep their legs crossed.

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

 

[rdean]

I'm assuming Sarah Palin's grandchild has both parents listed on the birth certificate? We need to see the "long" version.

 

[Jarhead]

We didn't force them to become single mothers, so why should we have to pay for some special program to educate their stupid butts or daycare to support their children?

Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the choices they've made in life?

To get them off of welfare is to stop giving it to them and tell them they are own their own! They need to find the idiot that knocked them up and make him pay. And in the meantime they need to keep their legs crossed.

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

Doing the above vbenefits society is strictly one opinion.

Others believe doing the opposite would benefit society.

The difference? I do not consider those that beieve one way as "loons" for thinking that way." I see their thinking as valid just as I see my thinking as valid. They both have merit.

And Jillian, telling me your sentiments is not pointless. It allows me to either rethihnk mine, or confirm mine.

I think debate is healthy.

But thats me...a rightwing loon.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

We didn't force them to become single mothers, so why should we have to pay for some special program to educate their stupid butts or daycare to support their children?

Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the choices they've made in life?

To get them off of welfare is to stop giving it to them and tell them they are own their own! They need to find the idiot that knocked them up and make him pay. And in the meantime they need to keep their legs crossed.

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

Yes it will benefit society when people are forced to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. When women learn that the taxpayers are no longer willing to support them for their bad choices and men learn that when they father a child they have to support it.

Tell me counselor, does it benefit society to reward people for their bad choices? Does 1 out of 4 Americans on welfare benefit society? Does the millions in welfare fraud benefit society?

 

[goldcatt]

I knew a woman that had 4 kids by 3 different men.

She had a 3 bedroom house with a front and back yard, lr eat in kitchen. She had to pay $25/month for it.
She never worked, so the money came from welfare.

One day she announced that she was going to be rich! He oldest, a girl that just turned 12, was put in charge of the "daycare" she just opened in "her" home.

That's right, she put her kids to work babysitting in an illegal daycare that was operating illegally out of gubmit housing. She didn't do anything with any of the kids, but she collected lots of money for nothing and still paid $25/month in rent.

Yeah, that's the kind of people our money goes to. This brave single mom struggle to make it, is more myth than reality.

Bullshit.

Tell that to the dozens of women posting on this board who are or have been single mothers, for whatever reason. The ones who are working, or going to school, or both. The ones whose kids are out of the house now but had a hell of a struggle in the past. The ones who may have even had *gasp* food stamps at one point or a medical card for their child when times were tough.

The myth that all welfare recipients of any kind, for any reason or amount of time are gumbint housing queens, cheats and hos is just that: a myth. Much of what you would consider "welfare" actually goes to the working poor. Drop the propaganda booklet and open your eyes to what goes on in the real world, not just what you're told.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

I'm assuming Sarah Palin's grandchild has both parents listed on the birth certificate? We need to see the "long" version.

The minute that child decides to run for an elected position, we should see it. Until then, why do we need to see it?

 

[Conspiracist]

why should the child suffer cause the mother is a ho? its not the mother you are punishing but the child.

Why should we suffer because the mother is a ho?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

We didn't force them to become single mothers, so why should we have to pay for some special program to educate their stupid butts or daycare to support their children?

Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the choices they've made in life?

To get them off of welfare is to stop giving it to them and tell them they are own their own! They need to find the idiot that knocked them up and make him pay. And in the meantime they need to keep their legs crossed.

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

Yes it will benefit society when people are forced to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. When women learn that the taxpayers are no longer willing to support them for their bad choices and men learn that when they father a child they have to support it.

Tell me counselor, does it benefit society to reward people for their bad choices? Does 1 out of 4 Americans on welfare benefit society? Does the millions in welfare fraud benefit society?

bump for Jillian.

 

[Luissa]

We didn't force them to become single mothers, so why should we have to pay for some special program to educate their stupid butts or daycare to support their children?

Why shouldn't they take responsibility for the choices they've made in life?

To get them off of welfare is to stop giving it to them and tell them they are own their own! They need to find the idiot that knocked them up and make him pay. And in the meantime they need to keep their legs crossed.

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

Yes it will benefit society when people are forced to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. When women learn that the taxpayers are no longer willing to support them for their bad choices and men learn that when they father a child they have to support it.

Tell me counselor, does it benefit society to reward people for their bad choices? Does 1 out of 4 Americans on welfare benefit society? Does the millions in welfare fraud benefit society?

Does it benefit children, to punish them for their parent's mistake?

 

[Jarhead]

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

Yes it will benefit society when people are forced to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. When women learn that the taxpayers are no longer willing to support them for their bad choices and men learn that when they father a child they have to support it.

Tell me counselor, does it benefit society to reward people for their bad choices? Does 1 out of 4 Americans on welfare benefit society? Does the millions in welfare fraud benefit society?

Does it benefit children, to punish them for their parent's mistake?

In time, those children would not be born until they are able to be supported by their parents.
Thats the whole point of our side of the debate.

 

[Luissa]

I knew a woman that had 4 kids by 3 different men.

She had a 3 bedroom house with a front and back yard, lr eat in kitchen. She had to pay $25/month for it.
She never worked, so the money came from welfare.

One day she announced that she was going to be rich! He oldest, a girl that just turned 12, was put in charge of the "daycare" she just opened in "her" home.

That's right, she put her kids to work babysitting in an illegal daycare that was operating illegally out of gubmit housing. She didn't do anything with any of the kids, but she collected lots of money for nothing and still paid $25/month in rent.

Yeah, that's the kind of people our money goes to. This brave single mom struggle to make it, is more myth than reality.

It is very easy to find anecdotal stories about abuses. And I have no doubt there are instances of abuse for which the perps should be prosecuted. But you can't punish needy people because some people are idiots.... same as you wouldn't punish every financial advisor because bernie madoff was.

Needy people my ass. If these s-called needy fucks would take responsibility for themselves and their actions then they wouldn't need us taxpayers supporting them. Truth is these needy pukes are nothing but a bunch of lazy bums that have no sense of pride or dignity.

Tell me counselor, how long would you pay a person for not working before you decided it was time for that person to find a job, any job!

You do realize that a lot of single moms who receive help have jobs?
When I received help when my son was first born I had a job to go back to, but they didn't provide health care for my child and I ran out of vacation pay because I had to leave early. If this law they came up with would have been in place, I would have been screwed. My child's father is a loser and due to him and the state he wasn't put on my son's BC until my son was nine ten months old. By the time my son was six weeks old I was back to work, and off assistance.
You guys live in a black and white fantasy world, with no real clue about real problems.

 

[Jarhead]

because doing the above benefits society.

but telling that to rightwingnut loons who want a dickensian society is pointless.

Yes it will benefit society when people are forced to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. When women learn that the taxpayers are no longer willing to support them for their bad choices and men learn that when they father a child they have to support it.

Tell me counselor, does it benefit society to reward people for their bad choices? Does 1 out of 4 Americans on welfare benefit society? Does the millions in welfare fraud benefit society?

Does it benefit children, to punish them for their parent's mistake?

Putting it the way you put it is the same as our side of the debate saying:

"rewarding irresponsible behavior"

It is not that just as much as it is not "opting to punish the children".

Both of those are known as "spin".

I see that. Do you?

 

[AllieBaba]

why should the child suffer cause the mother is a ho? its not the mother you are punishing but the child.

Why should society pick up the tab for irresponsible behavior? Take the kid away from her.

Er..take the kids away from single mom?

Sorry, Cali. That's crazy.

A requirement of eligibility in Oregon is that single parents sign a cooperation w/child support form, and identify absent parents. From there we can do a claim of risk, if the parent thinks that the pursual of child support could put them or the kids in danger...and when they do that, we don't pursue.

On my entire caseload, I only have one mother who says she doesn't know who the father is. She's a hardworking woman, has worked full time as long as I've known her; she wasn't young when she had this child, her only child, who came as a complete shock to her. She says that the dad was a traveling laborer, that she had NO idea that she could get pregnant (she either was using birth control or has medical issues) and had never been pregnant before. I think I believe her; at any rate, somebody who is so committed to keeping the dad a secret has their own reasons and I respect that. She has medical for the kid and maybe a few foodstamps; not many because like I said, she's a full time employee. Her work provides her insurance.

I have quite a few DV claim of risks, and those are legit; I have had to cajole some mothers into cooperating with child support. Particularly very young ones, who think they're doing something good by protecting the father from child support. I've also had families who withdraw their applications after they realize that if they receive assistance from the state, the state will seek reimbursement from the absent parent. And from them, too, if they get any money.

I don't mind that eligibility can be denied if a parent refuses to cooperate with the pursual of child support; but there are too many single mothers (I'm one) - I won't ever advocate taking children away from people just because they have a different lifestyle than what is universally "approved". If I did, I'd want every progressive in the world sterilized and their kids taken from them. And I don't want that, because that sort of tyranny can be flipped back on the tyrants much too easily.

 

[Luissa]

Needy people my ass. If these s-called needy fucks would take responsibility for themselves and their actions then they wouldn't need us taxpayers supporting them. Truth is these needy pukes are nothing but a bunch of lazy bums that have no sense of pride or dignity.

Tell me counselor, how long would you pay a person for not working before you decided it was time for that person to find a job, any job!

if we wanted them to work and get off welfare, we'd a) fund education/training programs for single mothers; while b) providing daycare; and c) not require them to pay the welfare back that they collected during the time period.

you can't tell someone they have to pay back welfare from a minimum wage job that won't sustain them.

as for "so called needy"... i'm not even going to address that because i think that attitude is a bunch of wingnuttery. but assuming it had any validity, what are you going to to to make daddy ante up some bucks? she didn't have her kids by mitosis.

I'm all for cutting welfare/housing and putting that money to education grants. Not free daycare, people need to take care of thier own or find freinds and family that can help out.

payback welfare? they can do that by becoming a tax paying citizen. When people start to see how much is taken out of thier check, and how hard they worked to get to that check, they will start to bitch about people not working for a living.

What if they don't have friends and families?
And PS, if the child's father is paying child support he has to pay part of what the mother receives from the state while not working. She can also lose part of her support to the state, to pay back what she received, especially if the state is collecting back child support.

 

[Jarhead]

It is very easy to find anecdotal stories about abuses. And I have no doubt there are instances of abuse for which the perps should be prosecuted. But you can't punish needy people because some people are idiots.... same as you wouldn't punish every financial advisor because bernie madoff was.

Needy people my ass. If these s-called needy fucks would take responsibility for themselves and their actions then they wouldn't need us taxpayers supporting them. Truth is these needy pukes are nothing but a bunch of lazy bums that have no sense of pride or dignity.

Tell me counselor, how long would you pay a person for not working before you decided it was time for that person to find a job, any job!

You do realize that a lot of single moms who receive help have jobs?
When I received help when my son was first born I had a job to go back to, but they didn't provide health care for my child and I ran out of vacation pay because I had to leave early. If this law they came up with would have been in place, I would have been screwed. My child's father is a loser and due to him and the state he wasn't put on my son's BC until my son was nine ten months old. By the time my son was six weeks old I was back to work, and off assistance.
You guys live in a black and white fantasy world, with no real clue about real problems.

When you decided to have a child, did you not know that you did not have coverage for him?
Did you ensure you had the finances to care for your son before you opted to conceive?

If my company went under today, I have the funds to carry all of my fianncail responsibilities for years.

When we had our first child, we ensured we had the funbds to carry us through 3 years of no income.

Yea, we had to scarifice for the few years prior to save up.....but it was worth it.

You didn't prepare? Why?