Who should we believe....Our President or El Chapo?

[McRocket]

Come on RW, you're smart enough to know that if you intensify screening at the ports-of-entry, the cartels will use tunnels, planes, boats, or horses to smuggle drugs in. The solution has to be an "all of the above". My brother was in the AF on the southern border, and said that radar could track all the drug planes coming over, but were not allowed to coordinate with DEA or local police.

Also, the wall isn't just about drug smuggling, its also about human trafficking as well as stopping the flood of migrants and MS-13 members coming up by the thousands in cartel promoted caravans.

Most illegals come in through either ports of entry or through legally-acquired, expired visa's...NOT through scurrying through the border in the middle of nowhere. It's common knowledge to anyone that bothers to read about it.

Most illegal immigration doesn't come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build a wall
The 2,000 Mile Wall in Search of a Purpose: Since 2007 Visa Overstays have Outnumbered Undocumented Border Crossers by a Half Million - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)

Besides, Trump's fence is a joke if he thinks that thing is going to keep anyone remotely determined out. I would guess a welding/cutting torch and less than 30 minutes will make mince meat of his latest joke of a 'wall'.


And why is Trump not calling for FAR tougher sentences for those who hire illegals? That is a cheap and easy way to discourage illegals.

The answer is obvious - lots of Reps hire LOTS of illegals.

1. Your point that visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossers is correct but misleading. They are BOTH about 400,000 per year. So Congress needs to address BOTH problems.

Where are you getting that from?
From my second above link:
'Overstays accounted for about two-thirds (66 percent) of those who arrived (i.e., joined the undocumented population) in 2014.'

2. The wall works, please read the link below. The Border Patrol are the only EXPERTS in this matter.
Border Patrol Makes Its Case For An Expanded 'Border Barrier'

Sorry,IMO, they do not DARE go against what Trump is asking for. Their jobs depend on toeing the company line. I don't believe ANYTHING from ANY active government bureaucrat about supporting government policy. EVER.
Plus, I am not saying that a border wall is a bad idea - quite the opposite. My point is that this is ALL Trump is talking about. He has said NOTHING (that I have heard) about heavier fines/jail time for those who hire illegals. He has not mentioned much (if at all) about curbing illegals coming in on legal visa's. All he talks about his is wall...AND THE WALL ALONE WILL NOT EVEN STOP 1/3 OF ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is a fact (as shown by my link above).

3. If anyone tries to cut thru the wall video cameras will notify Border Patrol

Sorry, not buying it. Where is you link that says that every, single foot of the border is monitored by camera? And even if it were, then how could tons of drugs - every day - be coming over it unnoticed?
If border patrol cannot stop waves of people coming in that they see - then obviously spending a few minutes to cut/explode a section of the wall and flood through it is no biggie.

4. The dems in Congress need to revise the immigration laws to make sentences tougher, not Trump. He would gladly support that effort.

You do not know that he feels that way - no one does but him. And please show me ONE major speech where he even says it? I don't recall him EVER mentioning it (though I might have missed it). And why is he not tweeting about it all the time? And the Reps had Congress for two years - why did they not do anything about it then? Why did Trump not ask them to over and over? Surely, that kind of legislation (Law and Order President) both he and the Reps would have been all for (in theory).

1. True that the 2017 data has 2/3 overstays, 1/3 crossers, but from the chart below for 2018 it looks like the illegal crossers will be larger based on pro-rating the early data, adding the fact that caravans are now imposing a new load of migrants.

2. We agree on the border wall with added enforcement options. Waiting for the dems to put them on the funding table. Trump cannot revise existing law regarding overstays. p.s. even the Obama admin border chief supports the new wall.
'Do It All, Including the Wall': Obama-Era Border Chief Hits Back at 'Absurd' Border Wall Arguments

3. The dems keep whining about new technology like satellites and drones. I'm suggesting that the wall will need to be monitored. Its not that expensive. The cameras can see a long way.

I respect your ideas on this. I sense we want the same things but in different ways.

But my point is that Trump is single-minded on this.

He has not even called for tougher laws against those who employ illegals (that I recall). I have never heard him EVER mention it. Not even in a tweet.
This is what he should be doing - especially when the Reps controlled both houses.

Nor has he talked much (if at all) about illegals overstaying their legal visa's.

It is clear that he (and his supporters) fell in love with the wall and are ignoring the real problems (and the one's that are FAR easier to tackle). Plus, Reps CLEARLY do not want larger penalties on those who hire illegals because LOTS of Reps do just that.

I give the Dem's in Washington little credit either as I do not believe for one second that they are not using this shutdown for political gain. They have Trump against the political ropes - and they are not letting up.

Were it up to me - bring down VERY hard penalties/jail sentences to those who hire illegals, end ALL government benefits for illegals AND end ALL quotas for allowing migrants to temporarily work in America. And, if all the above failed, THEN I would be for building an Israeli-style wall along the southern border.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

Sure,
Why not believe some shitbag psychopath drug dealer. He is a Democrat after all. Why would he lie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[McRocket]

Another rope

So high tech

Ah, so now it's two ropes and which side of the fence are your friends on now?

Hello?

I did not type the above. Rightwinger did.

You do know how to work computers, right?

 

[Muhammed]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN

Another ridiculous lie by CNN.

The fact of the matter is that the border patrol busts people bringing illegal drugs to America via open parts of the border all the time.

You don't even care how fucking stupid you look, do you?

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

Come on RW, you're smart enough to know that if you intensify screening at the ports-of-entry, the cartels will use tunnels, planes, boats, or horses to smuggle drugs in. The solution has to be an "all of the above". My brother was in the AF on the southern border, and said that radar could track all the drug planes coming over, but were not allowed to coordinate with DEA or local police.

Also, the wall isn't just about drug smuggling, its also about human trafficking as well as stopping the flood of migrants and MS-13 members coming up by the thousands in cartel promoted caravans.

Most illegals come in through either ports of entry or through legally-acquired, expired visa's...NOT through scurrying through the border in the middle of nowhere. It's common knowledge to anyone that bothers to read about it.

Most illegal immigration doesn't come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build a wall
The 2,000 Mile Wall in Search of a Purpose: Since 2007 Visa Overstays have Outnumbered Undocumented Border Crossers by a Half Million - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)

Besides, Trump's fence is a joke if he thinks that thing is going to keep anyone remotely determined out. I would guess a welding/cutting torch and less than 30 minutes will make mince meat of his latest joke of a 'wall'.


And why is Trump not calling for FAR tougher sentences for those who hire illegals? That is a cheap and easy way to discourage illegals.

The answer is obvious - lots of Reps hire LOTS of illegals.

1. Your point that visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossers is correct but misleading. They are BOTH about 400,000 per year. So Congress needs to address BOTH problems.

Where are you getting that from?
From my second above link:
'Overstays accounted for about two-thirds (66 percent) of those who arrived (i.e., joined the undocumented population) in 2014.'

2. The wall works, please read the link below. The Border Patrol are the only EXPERTS in this matter.
Border Patrol Makes Its Case For An Expanded 'Border Barrier'

Sorry,IMO, they do not DARE go against what Trump is asking for. Their jobs depend on toeing the company line. I don't believe ANYTHING from ANY active government bureaucrat about supporting government policy. EVER.
Plus, I am not saying that a border wall is a bad idea - quite the opposite. My point is that this is ALL Trump is talking about. He has said NOTHING (that I have heard) about heavier fines/jail time for those who hire illegals. He has not mentioned much (if at all) about curbing illegals coming in on legal visa's. All he talks about his is wall...AND THE WALL ALONE WILL NOT EVEN STOP 1/3 OF ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is a fact (as shown by my link above).

3. If anyone tries to cut thru the wall video cameras will notify Border Patrol

Sorry, not buying it. Where is you link that says that every, single foot of the border is monitored by camera? And even if it were, then how could tons of drugs - every day - be coming over it unnoticed?
If border patrol cannot stop waves of people coming in that they see - then obviously spending a few minutes to cut/explode a section of the wall and flood through it is no biggie.

4. The dems in Congress need to revise the immigration laws to make sentences tougher, not Trump. He would gladly support that effort.

You do not know that he feels that way - no one does but him. And please show me ONE major speech where he even says it? I don't recall him EVER mentioning it (though I might have missed it). And why is he not tweeting about it all the time? And the Reps had Congress for two years - why did they not do anything about it then? Why did Trump not ask them to over and over? Surely, that kind of legislation (Law and Order President) both he and the Reps would have been all for (in theory).

1. True that the 2017 data has 2/3 overstays, 1/3 crossers, but from the chart below for 2018 it looks like the illegal crossers will be larger based on pro-rating the early data, adding the fact that caravans are now imposing a new load of migrants.

2. We agree on the border wall with added enforcement options. Waiting for the dems to put them on the funding table. Trump cannot revise existing law regarding overstays. p.s. even the Obama admin border chief supports the new wall.
'Do It All, Including the Wall': Obama-Era Border Chief Hits Back at 'Absurd' Border Wall Arguments

3. The dems keep whining about new technology like satellites and drones. I'm suggesting that the wall will need to be monitored. Its not that expensive. The cameras can see a long way.

I respect your ideas. I sense we want the same things but in different ways.

But my point is that Trump is single-minded on this.

He has not even called for tougher laws against those who employ illegals (that I recall). I have never heard him EVER mention it. Not even in a tweet.
This is what he should be doing - especially when the Reps controlled both houses.

Nor has he talked much (if at all) about illegals overstaying their legal visa's.

It is clear that he (and his supporters) fell in love with the wall and are ignoring the real problems (and the one's that are FAR easier to tackle). Plus, Reps CLEARLY do not want larger penalties on those who hire illegals because LOTS of Reps do just that.

I give the Dem's in Washington little credit either as I do not believe for one second that they are not using this shutdown for political gain.

Were it up to me - I would put up a wall on the whole border (an Israeli-style one if I could get the funds), bring down VERY hard penalties/jail sentences to those who hire illegals, end ALL government benefits for illegals AND end ALL quotas for allowing migrants to temporarily work in America.
But the wall would not be high in importance as the others can make more of a difference at FAR less cost and far more quickly.

You are correct. He should shut down all those landscaping companies, fruit growers, and democrat senators that employ cheap labor on their estates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JWBooth]

When in doubt, take the word of the ruthless murdering drug dealer over the office holder, any office holder, every time. Unlike politicians, ruthless murdering drug dealers, on occasion, might actually tell the truth from time to time.

 

[edward37]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

El Chapo without a doubt

 

[toobfreak]

Obama had a comprehensive immigration policy developed by the bipartisan “gang of 8”
It provided immigration reform, a path to citizenship, Dreamer protection, border protection
When the RW media caught wind of it, they threw a fit and the legislation died on the vine

Obama? What did Obama have to do with it? How much real border security was included in that act? None? The immigration bill passed the Senate with a strong majority—68–32, with 14 Republicans joining all Democrats. So if the democrats were all for border security then, why are they fighting it now?

I'LL TELL YOU:

Because your bill did little to combat the ACTUAL PROBLEM: to stop and control undocumented illegal immigration. Once caught, if at all, your bill merely provided by more and better ways to see them in as American Citizens. A democrat's dream. And what GOPers were for that?

Jeff Flake. POS.
John McCain. Sellout to the party.
Maco Rubio. Latino.
Chuckie Schumer!!! Make me laugh.
And Lindsay Graham whom I still don't trust.

Trump is the only person here not playing politics and talking out of both sides of his mouth. America NEEDS a secure border. Trump will do everything possible to get it.

 

[WillPower]

Hello?

I did not type the above. Rightwinger did.

You do know how to work computers, right?

STFU.....you're finished in this thread so butt out.

 

[kyzr]

Come on RW, you're smart enough to know that if you intensify screening at the ports-of-entry, the cartels will use tunnels, planes, boats, or horses to smuggle drugs in. The solution has to be an "all of the above". My brother was in the AF on the southern border, and said that radar could track all the drug planes coming over, but were not allowed to coordinate with DEA or local police.

Also, the wall isn't just about drug smuggling, its also about human trafficking as well as stopping the flood of migrants and MS-13 members coming up by the thousands in cartel promoted caravans.

Most illegals come in through either ports of entry or through legally-acquired, expired visa's...NOT through scurrying through the border in the middle of nowhere. It's common knowledge to anyone that bothers to read about it.

Most illegal immigration doesn't come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build a wall
The 2,000 Mile Wall in Search of a Purpose: Since 2007 Visa Overstays have Outnumbered Undocumented Border Crossers by a Half Million - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)

Besides, Trump's fence is a joke if he thinks that thing is going to keep anyone remotely determined out. I would guess a welding/cutting torch and less than 30 minutes will make mince meat of his latest joke of a 'wall'.


And why is Trump not calling for FAR tougher sentences for those who hire illegals? That is a cheap and easy way to discourage illegals.

The answer is obvious - lots of Reps hire LOTS of illegals.

1. Your point that visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossers is correct but misleading. They are BOTH about 400,000 per year. So Congress needs to address BOTH problems.

Where are you getting that from?
From my second above link:
'Overstays accounted for about two-thirds (66 percent) of those who arrived (i.e., joined the undocumented population) in 2014.'

2. The wall works, please read the link below. The Border Patrol are the only EXPERTS in this matter.
Border Patrol Makes Its Case For An Expanded 'Border Barrier'

Sorry,IMO, they do not DARE go against what Trump is asking for. Their jobs depend on toeing the company line. I don't believe ANYTHING from ANY active government bureaucrat about supporting government policy. EVER.
Plus, I am not saying that a border wall is a bad idea - quite the opposite. My point is that this is ALL Trump is talking about. He has said NOTHING (that I have heard) about heavier fines/jail time for those who hire illegals. He has not mentioned much (if at all) about curbing illegals coming in on legal visa's. All he talks about his is wall...AND THE WALL ALONE WILL NOT EVEN STOP 1/3 OF ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is a fact (as shown by my link above).

3. If anyone tries to cut thru the wall video cameras will notify Border Patrol

Sorry, not buying it. Where is you link that says that every, single foot of the border is monitored by camera? And even if it were, then how could tons of drugs - every day - be coming over it unnoticed?
If border patrol cannot stop waves of people coming in that they see - then obviously spending a few minutes to cut/explode a section of the wall and flood through it is no biggie.

4. The dems in Congress need to revise the immigration laws to make sentences tougher, not Trump. He would gladly support that effort.

You do not know that he feels that way - no one does but him. And please show me ONE major speech where he even says it? I don't recall him EVER mentioning it (though I might have missed it). And why is he not tweeting about it all the time? And the Reps had Congress for two years - why did they not do anything about it then? Why did Trump not ask them to over and over? Surely, that kind of legislation (Law and Order President) both he and the Reps would have been all for (in theory).

1. True that the 2017 data has 2/3 overstays, 1/3 crossers, but from the chart below for 2018 it looks like the illegal crossers will be larger based on pro-rating the early data, adding the fact that caravans are now imposing a new load of migrants.

2. We agree on the border wall with added enforcement options. Waiting for the dems to put them on the funding table. Trump cannot revise existing law regarding overstays. p.s. even the Obama admin border chief supports the new wall.
'Do It All, Including the Wall': Obama-Era Border Chief Hits Back at 'Absurd' Border Wall Arguments

3. The dems keep whining about new technology like satellites and drones. I'm suggesting that the wall will need to be monitored. Its not that expensive. The cameras can see a long way.

I respect your ideas on this. I sense we want the same things but in different ways.

But my point is that Trump is single-minded on this.

He has not even called for tougher laws against those who employ illegals (that I recall). I have never heard him EVER mention it. Not even in a tweet.
This is what he should be doing - especially when the Reps controlled both houses.

Nor has he talked much (if at all) about illegals overstaying their legal visa's.

It is clear that he (and his supporters) fell in love with the wall and are ignoring the real problems (and the one's that are FAR easier to tackle). Plus, Reps CLEARLY do not want larger penalties on those who hire illegals because LOTS of Reps do just that.

I give the Dem's in Washington little credit either as I do not believe for one second that they are not using this shutdown for political gain.

Were it up to me - bring down VERY hard penalties/jail sentences to those who hire illegals, end ALL government benefits for illegals AND end ALL quotas for allowing migrants to temporarily work in America. And, if all the above failed, THEN I would be for building an Israeli-style wall along the southern border.

We do agree on tougher illegal immigration policies. The problem is that even the GOP could not pass tough immigration reform. Trump has no chance of getting dems to pass reforms. So we're stuck with the current flawed system.
Goodlatte offers E-Verify mandate, farm worker fix for immigration bill
House Republicans’ bad faith push to pass immigration reform is dead

These are the GOP coxuckers that killed immigration reform
These are the 41 Republicans who killed the Goodlatte immigration reform bill

 

[McRocket]

Most illegals come in through either ports of entry or through legally-acquired, expired visa's...NOT through scurrying through the border in the middle of nowhere. It's common knowledge to anyone that bothers to read about it.

Most illegal immigration doesn't come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build a wall
The 2,000 Mile Wall in Search of a Purpose: Since 2007 Visa Overstays have Outnumbered Undocumented Border Crossers by a Half Million - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)

Besides, Trump's fence is a joke if he thinks that thing is going to keep anyone remotely determined out. I would guess a welding/cutting torch and less than 30 minutes will make mince meat of his latest joke of a 'wall'.


And why is Trump not calling for FAR tougher sentences for those who hire illegals? That is a cheap and easy way to discourage illegals.

The answer is obvious - lots of Reps hire LOTS of illegals.

1. Your point that visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossers is correct but misleading. They are BOTH about 400,000 per year. So Congress needs to address BOTH problems.

Where are you getting that from?
From my second above link:
'Overstays accounted for about two-thirds (66 percent) of those who arrived (i.e., joined the undocumented population) in 2014.'

2. The wall works, please read the link below. The Border Patrol are the only EXPERTS in this matter.
Border Patrol Makes Its Case For An Expanded 'Border Barrier'

Sorry,IMO, they do not DARE go against what Trump is asking for. Their jobs depend on toeing the company line. I don't believe ANYTHING from ANY active government bureaucrat about supporting government policy. EVER.
Plus, I am not saying that a border wall is a bad idea - quite the opposite. My point is that this is ALL Trump is talking about. He has said NOTHING (that I have heard) about heavier fines/jail time for those who hire illegals. He has not mentioned much (if at all) about curbing illegals coming in on legal visa's. All he talks about his is wall...AND THE WALL ALONE WILL NOT EVEN STOP 1/3 OF ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is a fact (as shown by my link above).

3. If anyone tries to cut thru the wall video cameras will notify Border Patrol

Sorry, not buying it. Where is you link that says that every, single foot of the border is monitored by camera? And even if it were, then how could tons of drugs - every day - be coming over it unnoticed?
If border patrol cannot stop waves of people coming in that they see - then obviously spending a few minutes to cut/explode a section of the wall and flood through it is no biggie.

4. The dems in Congress need to revise the immigration laws to make sentences tougher, not Trump. He would gladly support that effort.

You do not know that he feels that way - no one does but him. And please show me ONE major speech where he even says it? I don't recall him EVER mentioning it (though I might have missed it). And why is he not tweeting about it all the time? And the Reps had Congress for two years - why did they not do anything about it then? Why did Trump not ask them to over and over? Surely, that kind of legislation (Law and Order President) both he and the Reps would have been all for (in theory).

1. True that the 2017 data has 2/3 overstays, 1/3 crossers, but from the chart below for 2018 it looks like the illegal crossers will be larger based on pro-rating the early data, adding the fact that caravans are now imposing a new load of migrants.

2. We agree on the border wall with added enforcement options. Waiting for the dems to put them on the funding table. Trump cannot revise existing law regarding overstays. p.s. even the Obama admin border chief supports the new wall.
'Do It All, Including the Wall': Obama-Era Border Chief Hits Back at 'Absurd' Border Wall Arguments

3. The dems keep whining about new technology like satellites and drones. I'm suggesting that the wall will need to be monitored. Its not that expensive. The cameras can see a long way.

I respect your ideas. I sense we want the same things but in different ways.

But my point is that Trump is single-minded on this.

He has not even called for tougher laws against those who employ illegals (that I recall). I have never heard him EVER mention it. Not even in a tweet.
This is what he should be doing - especially when the Reps controlled both houses.

Nor has he talked much (if at all) about illegals overstaying their legal visa's.

It is clear that he (and his supporters) fell in love with the wall and are ignoring the real problems (and the one's that are FAR easier to tackle). Plus, Reps CLEARLY do not want larger penalties on those who hire illegals because LOTS of Reps do just that.

I give the Dem's in Washington little credit either as I do not believe for one second that they are not using this shutdown for political gain.

Were it up to me - I would put up a wall on the whole border (an Israeli-style one if I could get the funds), bring down VERY hard penalties/jail sentences to those who hire illegals, end ALL government benefits for illegals AND end ALL quotas for allowing migrants to temporarily work in America.
But the wall would not be high in importance as the others can make more of a difference at FAR less cost and far more quickly.

You are correct. He should shut down all those landscaping companies, fruit growers, and democrat senators that employ cheap labor on their estates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree (though I am assuming you were being sarcastic).

 

[McRocket]

Hello?

I did not type the above. Rightwinger did.

You do know how to work computers, right?

STFU.....you're finished in this thread so butt out.

LOL...now you have Moonglow saying what I said.

Are you feeling alright?


And, yes, the last resort when a bully has run out of solid things to say 'STFU' or 'Leave'.

Hey pal, you started this conversation - not I.

 

[edward37]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

I can't believe the trump moron
Let’s be clear: There is no crisis. The number of undocumented immigrants in the United States has been declining for a decade. The number of people caught trying to sneak across the southern border has been on a downward trend for almost 20 years and is lower than it was in 1973.
.
As has often been pointed out, far more people are coming to the U.S. legally and then overstaying their visas than are crossing the southern border illegally. But it’s important to put these numbers in context. More than 52 million foreigners entered the U.S. legally in fiscal year 2017. Of this cohort, 98.7 percent left on time and in accordance with their visas. A large portion of those remaining left after a brief overstay, and the best government estimate is that maybe 0.8 percent of those who entered the country in 2017 had stayed on by mid-2018.
.
As for terrorism, the Cato Institute has found that, from 1975 to 2017, “there have been zero people murdered or injured in terror attacks committed by illegal border crossers on U.S. soil.”
.
As for drugs, the greatest danger comes from fentanyl and fentanyl-like substances, which are at the heart of the opioid crisis. Most of this comes from China, either shipped directly to the United States or smuggled through Canada or Mexico. Trump has addressed the root of this problem by pressing the Chinese government to crack down on fentanyl exports, a far more effective strategy than building a physical barrier along the Mexican border.
.
Even the Drug Enforcement Administration acknowledged in a report last year that while the southern border is the conduit for most of the heroin entering the United States, the drug typically comes through legal points of entry, hidden in cars or mixed in with other goods in tractor-trailers. In other words, a wall would do little to stanch the flow.
.
And yet, the power of the presidency is such that Trump has been able to place this issue center-stage, shut down the government, force television networks to run an error-ridden, scaremongering Oval Office address, and now perhaps invoke emergency powers. This sounds like something that would be done by Presidents Vladimir Putin, Recep Tayyip Erdogan or Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, not the head of the world’s leading constitutional republic.
.

 

[McRocket]

Most illegals come in through either ports of entry or through legally-acquired, expired visa's...NOT through scurrying through the border in the middle of nowhere. It's common knowledge to anyone that bothers to read about it.

Most illegal immigration doesn't come through the Mexican border where Trump wants to build a wall
The 2,000 Mile Wall in Search of a Purpose: Since 2007 Visa Overstays have Outnumbered Undocumented Border Crossers by a Half Million - The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS)

Besides, Trump's fence is a joke if he thinks that thing is going to keep anyone remotely determined out. I would guess a welding/cutting torch and less than 30 minutes will make mince meat of his latest joke of a 'wall'.


And why is Trump not calling for FAR tougher sentences for those who hire illegals? That is a cheap and easy way to discourage illegals.

The answer is obvious - lots of Reps hire LOTS of illegals.

1. Your point that visa overstays outnumber illegal border crossers is correct but misleading. They are BOTH about 400,000 per year. So Congress needs to address BOTH problems.

Where are you getting that from?
From my second above link:
'Overstays accounted for about two-thirds (66 percent) of those who arrived (i.e., joined the undocumented population) in 2014.'

2. The wall works, please read the link below. The Border Patrol are the only EXPERTS in this matter.
Border Patrol Makes Its Case For An Expanded 'Border Barrier'

Sorry,IMO, they do not DARE go against what Trump is asking for. Their jobs depend on toeing the company line. I don't believe ANYTHING from ANY active government bureaucrat about supporting government policy. EVER.
Plus, I am not saying that a border wall is a bad idea - quite the opposite. My point is that this is ALL Trump is talking about. He has said NOTHING (that I have heard) about heavier fines/jail time for those who hire illegals. He has not mentioned much (if at all) about curbing illegals coming in on legal visa's. All he talks about his is wall...AND THE WALL ALONE WILL NOT EVEN STOP 1/3 OF ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is a fact (as shown by my link above).

3. If anyone tries to cut thru the wall video cameras will notify Border Patrol

Sorry, not buying it. Where is you link that says that every, single foot of the border is monitored by camera? And even if it were, then how could tons of drugs - every day - be coming over it unnoticed?
If border patrol cannot stop waves of people coming in that they see - then obviously spending a few minutes to cut/explode a section of the wall and flood through it is no biggie.

4. The dems in Congress need to revise the immigration laws to make sentences tougher, not Trump. He would gladly support that effort.

You do not know that he feels that way - no one does but him. And please show me ONE major speech where he even says it? I don't recall him EVER mentioning it (though I might have missed it). And why is he not tweeting about it all the time? And the Reps had Congress for two years - why did they not do anything about it then? Why did Trump not ask them to over and over? Surely, that kind of legislation (Law and Order President) both he and the Reps would have been all for (in theory).

1. True that the 2017 data has 2/3 overstays, 1/3 crossers, but from the chart below for 2018 it looks like the illegal crossers will be larger based on pro-rating the early data, adding the fact that caravans are now imposing a new load of migrants.

2. We agree on the border wall with added enforcement options. Waiting for the dems to put them on the funding table. Trump cannot revise existing law regarding overstays. p.s. even the Obama admin border chief supports the new wall.
'Do It All, Including the Wall': Obama-Era Border Chief Hits Back at 'Absurd' Border Wall Arguments

3. The dems keep whining about new technology like satellites and drones. I'm suggesting that the wall will need to be monitored. Its not that expensive. The cameras can see a long way.

I respect your ideas on this. I sense we want the same things but in different ways.

But my point is that Trump is single-minded on this.

He has not even called for tougher laws against those who employ illegals (that I recall). I have never heard him EVER mention it. Not even in a tweet.
This is what he should be doing - especially when the Reps controlled both houses.

Nor has he talked much (if at all) about illegals overstaying their legal visa's.

It is clear that he (and his supporters) fell in love with the wall and are ignoring the real problems (and the one's that are FAR easier to tackle). Plus, Reps CLEARLY do not want larger penalties on those who hire illegals because LOTS of Reps do just that.

I give the Dem's in Washington little credit either as I do not believe for one second that they are not using this shutdown for political gain.

Were it up to me - bring down VERY hard penalties/jail sentences to those who hire illegals, end ALL government benefits for illegals AND end ALL quotas for allowing migrants to temporarily work in America. And, if all the above failed, THEN I would be for building an Israeli-style wall along the southern border.

We do agree on tougher illegal immigration policies. The problem is that even the GOP could not pass tough immigration reform. Trump has no chance of getting dems to pass reforms. So we're stuck with the current flawed system.
Goodlatte offers E-Verify mandate, farm worker fix for immigration bill
House Republicans’ bad faith push to pass immigration reform is dead

These are the GOP coxuckers that killed immigration reform
These are the 41 Republicans who killed the Goodlatte immigration reform bill

What bothers me about the whole wall thing is 1) it takes away more constructive talk about immigration by focusing on just one, small part of it. And 2) I believe that both the Reps and the Dems love the idea of the wall (they both voted for it before) because they both know it will mean little, still allow them to employ illegals (which their richer voters like) and will satiate the masses for a few years/a decade at a reasonable cost.

Unfortunately, Trump did his normal 'bull in a China shop' approach and managed to piss off almost everyone...so almost no one wants to help him in Washington.

I sincerely believe that hardcore, powerful Reps want Trump gone from office almost as much as Dems do.

 

[Meathead]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

Let's see. Drug traffickers reported on CNN. Maybe if Hillary and Michael Avenati could back that up it would be pure gospel.

 

[OKTexas]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

You were saying?

And then:

And:

 

[rightwinger]

Ah, so now it's two ropes and which side of the fence are your friends on now?

So difficult to scale the Great Wall of Trump

Mexicans could never figure out how to use a rope or ladder
Imagine if they brought a pulley?
We know Trump can’t

 

[rightwinger]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

I can't believe the trump moron
Let’s be clear: There is no crisis. The number of undocumented immigrants in the United States has been declining for a decade. The number of people caught trying to sneak across the southern border has been on a downward trend for almost 20 years and is lower than it was in 1973.
.
As has often been pointed out, far more people are coming to the U.S. legally and then overstaying their visas than are crossing the southern border illegally. But it’s important to put these numbers in context. More than 52 million foreigners entered the U.S. legally in fiscal year 2017. Of this cohort, 98.7 percent left on time and in accordance with their visas. A large portion of those remaining left after a brief overstay, and the best government estimate is that maybe 0.8 percent of those who entered the country in 2017 had stayed on by mid-2018.
.
As for terrorism, the Cato Institute has found that, from 1975 to 2017, “there have been zero people murdered or injured in terror attacks committed by illegal border crossers on U.S. soil.”
.
As for drugs, the greatest danger comes from fentanyl and fentanyl-like substances, which are at the heart of the opioid crisis. Most of this comes from China, either shipped directly to the United States or smuggled through Canada or Mexico. Trump has addressed the root of this problem by pressing the Chinese government to crack down on fentanyl exports, a far more effective strategy than building a physical barrier along the Mexican border.
.
Even the Drug Enforcement Administration acknowledged in a report last year that while the southern border is the conduit for most of the heroin entering the United States, the drug typically comes through legal points of entry, hidden in cars or mixed in with other goods in tractor-trailers. In other words, a wall would do little to stanch the flow.
.
And yet, the power of the presidency is such that Trump has been able to place this issue center-stage, shut down the government, force television networks to run an error-ridden, scaremongering Oval Office address, and now perhaps invoke emergency powers. This sounds like something that would be done by Presidents Vladimir Putin, Recep Tayyip Erdogan or Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, not the head of the world’s leading constitutional republic.
.

Trump has managed to convince his minions that Mexicans who come over to mow lawns and make beds are evil terrorists, murderers, rapists and drug dealers

 

[rightwinger]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

You were saying?

View attachment 239933

And then:
View attachment 239934

And:
View attachment 239935

OMG......they are bringing in their dirty laundry

 

[OKTexas]

Traffickers at El Chapo trial say drugs aren't coming into the US through open parts of the border - CNN


Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry, according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.




So much for the Presidents fear mongering that his wall is needed to stop drug smuggling

You were saying?

View attachment 239933

And then:
View attachment 239934

And:
View attachment 239935

OMG......they are bringing in their dirty laundry

Yeah, right. Fact is they use any means they can come up with and the money Trump is asking for addresses all of them. But I guess that doesn't fit the regressive propaganda.

.