Who or what created the creator ?

[bobgnote]

I believe in the God of the bible that gave free will to believe or not to believe. I don't believe in organised religion set up by man at all. I believe God made it simple for us we either except him on faith or we don't . I believe all that were ignorant of him he will judge them according to their heart condition.

If we were once to live forever and now sin and die,what mechanism did he use to carry out the sentence. could it be mutations or entropy or could it be entropy that causes the mutations. Don't know for sure,but he definitely used a destructive mechanism that carries out his punishment.

I have spent over forty years studying the bible and it has not given me one reason to doubt it.Fact is it gave me reason to trust in it.

Do you believe the US should support ethnic cleansing of Palestine, since the Old Testament is about how the ancient Habirus did exactly that, and the incorporation of the Old Testament into the bible is directed, to assimilate Jews into the Roman Empire, while unifying the several subjects, toward similar industry, to conquer?

The New Testament was directed to show subjects, how Rome was still around, so when you want to die, all you need to do is say, "Get behind me, Satan!," roust some lenders, but before you do that, tell Pete and Judas to fink out to the Temple Authority, or the Romans will clean out the whole gang, without regard to how they might be called on, to remember what happened, to make gospel, many years later. You don't get to remember anything, if you let those Romans kill everybody, which they would do.

And then, the several relevant gospels were eliminated, Thomas, Judas, Mary Magdalene, and all the idiot-rant about virgin birth ignored soldier in Roman service Pantera, who doinked Mary, and the Roman Church established any several traditions of idiocy and bullshit, which Romanesque Christians yet propagate, including Crusades.

Seems to me the bible has some flaws. I'd rather watch TV and type.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I believe in the God of the bible that gave free will to believe or not to believe. I don't believe in organised religion set up by man at all. I believe God made it simple for us we either except him on faith or we don't . I believe all that were ignorant of him he will judge them according to their heart condition.

If we were once to live forever and now sin and die,what mechanism did he use to carry out the sentence. could it be mutations or entropy or could it be entropy that causes the mutations. Don't know for sure,but he definitely used a destructive mechanism that carries out his punishment.

I have spent over forty years studying the bible and it has not given me one reason to doubt it.Fact is it gave me reason to trust in it.

Do you believe the US should support ethnic cleansing of Palestine, since the Old Testament is about how the ancient Habirus did exactly that, and the incorporation of the Old Testament into the bible is directed, to assimilate Jews into the Roman Empire, while unifying the several subjects, toward similar industry, to conquer?

The New Testament was directed to show subjects, how Rome was still around, so when you want to die, all you need to do is say, "Get behind me, Satan!," roust some lenders, but before you do that, tell Pete and Judas to fink out to the Temple Authority, or the Romans will clean out the whole gang, without regard to how they might be called on, to remember what happened, to make gospel, many years later. You don't get to remember anything, if you let those Romans kill everybody, which they would do.

And then, the several relevant gospels were eliminated, Thomas, Judas, Mary Magdalene, and all the idiot-rant about virgin birth ignored soldier in Roman service Pantera, who doinked Mary, and the Roman Church established any several traditions of idiocy and bullshit, which Romanesque Christians yet propagate, including Crusades.

Seems to me the bible has some flaws. I'd rather watch TV and type.

God did eliminate many enemies that worshipped false gods. Do I agree with it ? Yes God knows better than I do who should be eliminated.

But again that just goes to show how things have changed since the coming and sacrifice of Christ. Man is committing those acts today without God's permission. God ordered Israel to never war against their enemies unless instructed to do so by the prophets. When they disobeyed they got a beating.

There is also a resurrection of both the just and unjust,the just a ressurrection to everlasting life and the unjust to a resurrection of judgment.

There is a reason that many so called books didn't make it in to the bible that was the work of many scholars. If they did not pass the smell test they didn't make it.

 

[Liability]

In what possible way does it make any sense that an Almighty and Eternal God, creator of all, would have to have a son, born of human flesh, die an agonizing death in order to grant humanity forgiveness?

 

[Toro]

In what possible way does it make any sense that an Almighty and Eternal God, creator of all, would have to have a son, born of human flesh, die an agonizing death in order to grant humanity forgiveness?

I'm a Christian and believe in God but there are a lot of things about religion I don't understand. First, religion is a man-made construct, so to say that "this is the only way" is pretty silly. I've also never understood why God, who is so powerful and mighty that He created everything but is also really insecure and petty that I have to worship Him everyday. I mean, if you created the Universe, why is necessary to have your ego stroked by such flawed beings like ourselves? Finally, I also find it extremely narcissistic that the Most Powerful Being in the Universe is super-interested in what I do, that he has a plan for me. Aren't I lucky! So, what should it be for dinner tonight, God, burritos or Hungry Man TV dinner? I could go on, but that's just a few.

 

[MaryL]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

That is a perplexing question. That is right up there with : who combusted internal combustion? You are a beautiful old soul. I don't bother with such abstractions, only the facts, isn't that a good thing to do? We will never know how the universe came to be. We are here, a part in some play we didn't ask to be part of. What bothers me is that some people are so certain that they have all the answers, either in religion or in science. Religion. Organized religion, to me is a sign of human arrogance, that some people think they KNOW the mind of GOD somehow. That seems like a typical human folly. Science seems a little more humble. Science looks for valid rational answers. Religion assumes it already knows the answers...That is all I can say.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

There is no evolver.

 

[Youwerecreated]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

There is no evolver.

The evolver is the natural process that evolutionist claim.

 

[bobgnote]

God did eliminate many enemies that worshipped false gods. Do I agree with it ? Yes God knows better than I do who should be eliminated.

But again that just goes to show how things have changed since the coming and sacrifice of Christ. Man is committing those acts today without God's permission. God ordered Israel to never war against their enemies unless instructed to do so by the prophets. When they disobeyed they got a beating.

There is also a resurrection of both the just and unjust,the just a ressurrection to everlasting life and the unjust to a resurrection of judgment.

There is a reason that many so called books didn't make it in to the bible that was the work of many scholars. If they did not pass the smell test they didn't make it.

Modern Israel has nothing to do, with anybody named Jehovah or Ya'weh.

Modern Israel is the sort of resurrection, which actually happens. Somebody keeps an institution alive. Individual resurrection can be accomplished, in the minds of the living, as long as the living can be assisted, to dream or remember.

So when Americans remember the US Constitution and statutes, modern Israel gets dumped, and it has to get along, with its neighbors, instead of relying on non-Middle Eastern powers, to play the Sunnis and Shiites against each other.

When you are DEAD, you are like a broken TV. You won't be receiving even re-runs. If somebody shows a picture of you, on a working TV, that set might be showing a picture, of what you looked like, when you were playing cartoons or Oprah, for instance.

Oprah ain't on, anymore, dude. Get real. The Jesus story has been co-opted by Catholics and all kinds of people. Watch The Borgias and Goya's Ghosts, to get a clue, about what kind of flat-earth society has played your media. You are deluded, if you think the same person any old story refers to will come back, in anything but a story.

If you are smelling reading material, your fingers probably stink.

 

[Douger]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

YOU did.

 

[Youwerecreated]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

YOU did.

How did I create the creator ?

 

[bobcollum]

Youwerecreated always takes the same approach...conscience acts led to everything in existence.

 

[McFadden]

Maybe off the thread, but why if we can prove the "accidental mutations" of cells, is it ignored by most religions? Because when the laws and soties of the respective religions were written humans did not know about evolution. ? This is where I get lost. Anyone care to explain

 

[rdean]

 

[Hollie]

Maybe off the thread, but why if we can prove the "accidental mutations" of cells, is it ignored by most religions? Because when the laws and soties of the respective religions were written humans did not know about evolution. ? This is where I get lost. Anyone care to explain

I’m not sure if I understand the term "accidental mutations" of cells. Cells mutate due to many external factors but I don’t think a biologist would define that as accidental. Fundies may be uncomfortable with the term mutation because that implies an evolutionary process, part of the natural world. That is antithetical to creationism / ID / supernaturalism.

It’s not just cell mutation that contradicts the religious tales and fables but the advancement of knowledge furthered by science. It has been science that has peeled back the layers of fear and superstition that previously assigned to the gods such tasks as making thunder and lighting, floods and earthquakes.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Maybe off the thread, but why if we can prove the "accidental mutations" of cells, is it ignored by most religions? Because when the laws and soties of the respective religions were written humans did not know about evolution. ? This is where I get lost. Anyone care to explain

I’m not sure if I understand the term "accidental mutations" of cells. Cells mutate due to many external factors but I don’t think a biologist would define that as accidental. Fundies may be uncomfortable with the term mutation because that implies an evolutionary process, part of the natural world. That is antithetical to creationism / ID / supernaturalism.

It’s not just cell mutation that contradicts the religious tales and fables but the advancement of knowledge furthered by science. It has been science that has peeled back the layers of fear and superstition that previously assigned to the gods such tasks as making thunder and lighting, floods and earthquakes.

Mutations are gene defects and they are the cause of around 5,000 genetic disorders. How many mutations can you name that benefitted a group of organisms ?

Do you understand you need a net gain of DNA information for evolution to take place ? But what is really observed from mutations ?

 

[Hollie]

Maybe off the thread, but why if we can prove the "accidental mutations" of cells, is it ignored by most religions? Because when the laws and soties of the respective religions were written humans did not know about evolution. ? This is where I get lost. Anyone care to explain

I’m not sure if I understand the term "accidental mutations" of cells. Cells mutate due to many external factors but I don’t think a biologist would define that as accidental. Fundies may be uncomfortable with the term mutation because that implies an evolutionary process, part of the natural world. That is antithetical to creationism / ID / supernaturalism.

It’s not just cell mutation that contradicts the religious tales and fables but the advancement of knowledge furthered by science. It has been science that has peeled back the layers of fear and superstition that previously assigned to the gods such tasks as making thunder and lighting, floods and earthquakes.

Mutations are gene defects and they are the cause of around 5,000 genetic disorders. How many mutations can you name that benefitted a group of organisms ?

Do you understand you need a net gain of DNA information for evolution to take place ? But what is really observed from mutations ?

That is simply nonsensical. You should expand your knowledge beyond the science-loathing charlatans at the Discovery Institute.

Gene mutations are not necessarily defects but mutations. In case you missed it, that's why they're called "mutations".

 

[Truthseeker420]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

If I understand your question.....there is no beginning or ending to life,the universe or time(imo)...if this is a microbioogy question I don't know...

 

[Youwerecreated]

I’m not sure if I understand the term "accidental mutations" of cells. Cells mutate due to many external factors but I don’t think a biologist would define that as accidental. Fundies may be uncomfortable with the term mutation because that implies an evolutionary process, part of the natural world. That is antithetical to creationism / ID / supernaturalism.

It’s not just cell mutation that contradicts the religious tales and fables but the advancement of knowledge furthered by science. It has been science that has peeled back the layers of fear and superstition that previously assigned to the gods such tasks as making thunder and lighting, floods and earthquakes.

Mutations are gene defects and they are the cause of around 5,000 genetic disorders. How many mutations can you name that benefitted a group of organisms ?

Do you understand you need a net gain of DNA information for evolution to take place ? But what is really observed from mutations ?

That is simply nonsensical. You should expand your knowledge beyond the science-loathing charlatans at the Discovery Institute.

Gene mutations are not necessarily defects but mutations. In case you missed it, that's why they're called "mutations".

Sorry but you are wrong. Don't start with the charlatan crap or the science loathing crap. maybe you should start answering my questions.

if a mutation results in a change of a gene that is considered a defective gene because there was a lost function. the math also is on my side. We can point to many more genetic disorders from mutations then you can point to beneficial mutations.

What science knowledge are you speaking of ? have not seen nothing but rhetoric from you.

 

[Youwerecreated]

This has been a question to me in several threads concerning evolution and creation or in ID.

Well we believers don't question or shouldn't quiestion what the scriptures say if we do then what do we base our faith on concerning the creator if we can't take him at his word. The word say's God is eternal that in itself is something that requires faith to believe.

But if there is a designer that created all we can see who am I to question this creator being eternal.

But I have a question for evolutionist who or what evolved the evolver ?

If I understand your question.....there is no beginning or ending to life,the universe or time(imo)...if this is a microbioogy question I don't know...

The creator I believe exists outside of time, space, and matter,which is our universe and all that is in it.

 

[Hollie]

Sorry but you are wrong. Don't start with the charlatan crap or the science loathing crap. maybe you should start answering my questions.

if a mutation results in a change of a gene that is considered a defective gene because there was a lost function. the math also is on my side. We can point to many more genetic disorders from mutations then you can point to beneficial mutations.

What science knowledge are you speaking of ? have not seen nothing but rhetoric from you.

For those of you in thrall to the charlatans at the Institute of Creation Research, the science-loathing folks, there is liitle in the way of hard science to refute. Those charlatans have predefined an agenda of ignorance and revulsion for science.

From another thread:

The main entity for championing creationism, the Institute for Creation Research, requires its scientists (sic) to sign a prequalifying document that insists that nothing they discover is permitted to go against biblical scripture. If this is not a complete violation of the tenets of science then nothing is. Here is the key to their contradictory stance towards science:

Foundational Principles

Foundational Principles

Principles of Scientific Creationism

• The physical universe of space, time, matter, and energy has not always existed, but was supernaturally created by a transcendent personal Creator who alone has existed from eternity.

• The phenomenon of biological life did not develop by natural processes from inanimate systems but was specially and supernaturally created by the Creator.

• Each of the major kinds of plants and animals was created functionally complete from the beginning and did not evolve from some other kind of organism. Changes in basic kinds since their first creation are limited to "horizontal" changes (variations) within the kinds, or "downward" changes (e.g., harmful mutations, extinctions).

• The first human beings did not evolve from an animal ancestry, but were specially created in fully human form from the start. Furthermore, the "spiritual" nature of man (self-image, moral consciousness, abstract reasoning, language, will, religious nature, etc.) is itself a supernaturally created entity distinct from mere biological life.

• The record of earth history, as preserved in the earth's crust, especially in the rocks and fossil deposits, is primarily a record of catastrophic intensities of natural processes, operating largely within uniform natural laws, rather than one of gradualism and relatively uniform process rates. There are many scientific evidences for a relatively recent creation of the earth and the universe, in addition to strong scientific evidence that most of the earth's fossiliferous sedimentary rocks were formed in an even more recent global hydraulic cataclysm.

• Processes today operate primarily within fixed natural laws and relatively uniform process rates, but since these were themselves originally created and are daily maintained by their Creator, there is always the possibility of miraculous intervention in these laws or processes by their Creator. Evidences for such intervention should be scrutinized critically, however, because there must be clear and adequate reason for any such action on the part of the Creator.

• The universe and life have somehow been impaired since the completion of creation, so that imperfections in structure, disease, aging, extinctions, and other such phenomena are the result of "negative" changes in properties and processes occurring in an originally-perfect created order.

• Since the universe and its primary components were created perfect for their purposes in the beginning by a competent and volitional Creator, and since the Creator does remain active in this now-decaying creation, there do exist ultimate purposes and meanings in the universe. Teleological considerations, therefore, are appropriate in scientific studies whenever they are consistent with the actual data of observation. Furthermore, it is reasonable to assume that the creation presently awaits the consummation of the Creator's purpose.

• Although people are finite and scientific data concerning origins are always circumstantial and incomplete, the human mind (if open to possibility of creation) is able to explore the manifestations of that Creator rationally, scientifically, and teleologically.
Principles of Biblical Creationism

• The Creator of the universe is a triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is only one eternal and transcendent God, the source of all being and meaning, and He exists in three Persons, each of whom participated in the work of creation.

• The Bible, consisting of the thirty-nine canonical books of the Old Testament and the twenty-seven canonical books of the New Testament, is the divinely-inspired revelation of the Creator to man. Its unique, plenary, verbal inspiration guarantees that these writings, as originally and miraculously given, are infallible and completely authoritative on all matters with which they deal, free from error of any sort, scientific and historical as well as moral and theological.

• All things in the universe were created and made by God in the six literal days of the Creation Week described in Genesis 1:1-2:3, and confirmed in Exodus 20:8-11. The creation record is factual, historical, and perspicuous; thus all theories of origins or development that involve evolution in any form are false. All things that now exist are sustained and ordered by God's providential care. However, a part of the spiritual creation, Satan and his angels, rebelled against God after the creation and are attempting to thwart His divine purposes in creation.

• The first human beings, Adam and Eve, were specially created by God, and all other men and women are their descendants. In Adam, mankind was instructed to exercise "dominion" over all other created organisms, and over the earth itself (an implicit commission for true science, technology, commerce, fine art, and education), but the temptation by Satan and the entrance of sin brought God's curse on that dominion and on mankind, culminating in death and separation from God as the natural and proper consequence.

• The biblical record of primeval earth history in Genesis 1-11 is fully historical and perspicuous, including the creation and Fall of man, the Curse on the Creation and its subjection to the bondage of decay, the promised Redeemer, the worldwide cataclysmic deluge in the days of Noah, the post-diluvian renewal of man's commission to subdue the earth (now augmented by the institution of human government), and the origin of nations and languages at the tower of Babel.

• The alienation of man from his Creator because of sin can only be remedied by the Creator Himself, who became man in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, through miraculous conception and virgin birth. In Christ were indissolubly united perfect sinless humanity and full deity, so that His substitutionary death is the only necessary and sufficient price of man's redemption. That the redemption was completely efficacious is assured by His bodily resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven; the resurrection of Christ is thus the focal point of history, assuring the consummation of God's purposes in creation.

•The final restoration of creation's perfection is yet future, but individuals can immediately be restored to fellowship with their Creator on the basis of His redemptive work on their behalf, receiving forgiveness and eternal life solely through personal trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, accepting Him not only as estranged Creator, but also as reconciling Redeemer and coming King. Those who reject Him, however, or who neglect to believe on Him, thereby continue in their state of rebellion and must ultimately be consigned to the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

• The eventual accomplishment of God's eternal purposes in creation, with the removal of His curse and the restoration of all things to divine perfection, will take place at the personal bodily return to earth of Jesus Christ to judge and purge sin and to establish His eternal kingdom.

• Each believer should participate in the "ministry of reconciliation" by seeking both to bring individuals back to God in Christ (the "Great Commission") and to "subdue the earth" for God's glory (the Edenic-Noahic Commission). The three institutions established by the Creator for the implementation of His purposes in this world (home, government, church) should be honored and supported as such.



Apparently, to be a "good Christian" one must have no sense of personal or academic integrity.

It's laughable. And you want that to be the standard taught in schools? Fine. Do it in Christian Madrassah’s while the rest of us move along with progress and science. I have no desire to see a nation of kids being raised with thinking that dates only up to the 17th century. I already see enough of that in Islamic countries.

Pathetic!