Who are the 47% who pay no federal taxes?

[rightwinger]

The bottom line when all is said and done is that no matter what the reason or situation, the country can not have nearly half it's population being supported by the rest. It's unsustainable. All day long, back and forth, who comprises it, who needs it, who doesn't deserve it, who pays taxes, who doesn't....

The whole point being missed is as plain as the nose of one's face. It can't continue.

This is part of the Conservative argument that I don't understand

How are you supporting those 47%? They are earning money, they are supporting their own families, they are paying state and local taxes

However, by taking dependent child, mortgage, charity and medical deductions they get their federal rate down to zero

How exactly, are you supporting them?

Look I'm not going to get sucked into this nonsense of back and forth all night.

We can split hairs over the exact percentage and who pays what. There are far too many people living off the rest. That's pretty clear to anyone following what's going on.

Anyone denying that is either blind, uninformed or an outright liar.

That's my only point. You guys can argue until midnight if you like. We both can spend hours providing links and sources. Each claiming the other is wrong.

We are not heading in the right direction when we have an overall economic situation like we do.

I don't care if Obama fixes it or Romney...it needs fixin'!

I'm trying to have a civil discussion on a recent political topic. You claim that those 47% are supported by the rest of us, I asked how?

 

[DiamondDave]

This is part of the Conservative argument that I don't understand

How are you supporting those 47%? They are earning money, they are supporting their own families, they are paying state and local taxes

However, by taking dependent child, mortgage, charity and medical deductions they get their federal rate down to zero

How exactly, are you supporting them?

Are they paying thru federal income tax for federal benefits, federal services, etc?? No.. that means someone else is footing that bill.. which is wrong, especially some of those very people love to scream about equality in treatment on things that concern them... Well, equality in treatment is an all encompassing thing, not just selectively choosing when it is good and when it is good to treat others differently for your benefit

They pay Social Security and Medicare

Which federal benefits are they recieving that you say they are not paying for?

If you have a family of four and make $25,000. What federal benefits are you getting that you don't pay for?

And they can receive those things... whether they should be receiving those things, or anyone should... or whether the government is charged to do such things is a whole other convo...

Are they paying for the things the rest of us are?? Defense, federal law enforcement, the federal courts, congress itself, federal aid systems (that many are probably receiving benefit from) etc?? No... they are not... and that is unequal treatment by government under law.... everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE who earns even $1 should be paying the same % on that dollar earned in federal income tax

 

[mal]

peace...

 

[SniperFire]

peace...

lol

 

[rightwinger]

Are they paying thru federal income tax for federal benefits, federal services, etc?? No.. that means someone else is footing that bill.. which is wrong, especially some of those very people love to scream about equality in treatment on things that concern them... Well, equality in treatment is an all encompassing thing, not just selectively choosing when it is good and when it is good to treat others differently for your benefit

They pay Social Security and Medicare

Which federal benefits are they recieving that you say they are not paying for?

If you have a family of four and make $25,000. What federal benefits are you getting that you don't pay for?

And they can receive those things... whether they should be receiving those things, or anyone should... or whether the government is charged to do such things is a whole other convo...

Are they paying for the things the rest of us are?? Defense, federal law enforcement, the federal courts, congress itself, federal aid systems (that many are probably receiving benefit from) etc?? No... they are not... and that is unequal treatment by government under law.... everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE who earns even $1 should be paying the same % on that dollar earned in federal income tax

OK

Now we are getting somewhere

The 47% are not in fact being supported by the rest of us. However, they are not contributing to the Military, FBI, courts, congress etc

What that means is that our tax system acknowledges that they have a hard enough time paying for food, shelter and housing for their families and asking them to pay for the military, federal law enforcement etc is an unnecessary burden

 

[SniperFire]

They pay Social Security and Medicare

Which federal benefits are they recieving that you say they are not paying for?

If you have a family of four and make $25,000. What federal benefits are you getting that you don't pay for?

And they can receive those things... whether they should be receiving those things, or anyone should... or whether the government is charged to do such things is a whole other convo...

Are they paying for the things the rest of us are?? Defense, federal law enforcement, the federal courts, congress itself, federal aid systems (that many are probably receiving benefit from) etc?? No... they are not... and that is unequal treatment by government under law.... everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE who earns even $1 should be paying the same % on that dollar earned in federal income tax

OK

Now we are getting somewhere

The 47% are not in fact being supported by the rest of us. However, they are not contributing to the Military, FBI, courts, congress etc

What that means is that our tax system acknowledges that they have a hard enough time paying for food, shelter and housing for their families and asking them to pay for the military, federal law enforcement etc is an unnecessary burden

That's what he said. They are being supported by the rest of us.


LOL

 

[DiamondDave]

They pay Social Security and Medicare

Which federal benefits are they recieving that you say they are not paying for?

If you have a family of four and make $25,000. What federal benefits are you getting that you don't pay for?

And they can receive those things... whether they should be receiving those things, or anyone should... or whether the government is charged to do such things is a whole other convo...

Are they paying for the things the rest of us are?? Defense, federal law enforcement, the federal courts, congress itself, federal aid systems (that many are probably receiving benefit from) etc?? No... they are not... and that is unequal treatment by government under law.... everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE who earns even $1 should be paying the same % on that dollar earned in federal income tax

OK

Now we are getting somewhere

The 47% are not in fact being supported by the rest of us. However, they are not contributing to the Military, FBI, courts, congress etc

What that means is that our tax system acknowledges that they have a hard enough time paying for food, shelter and housing for their families and asking them to pay for the military, federal law enforcement etc is an unnecessary burden

Uh... if they are not paying for the services, and not paying for the very programs that they are probably receiving benefit from.. then yes, the rest are indeed supporting them

What that means is that currently we have and you support a system of unequal treatment WHEN IT BENEFITS YOU OR YOUR CAUSE....

If something is necessary for the government to do, it is indeed everyone's burden... not just a select few that you choose to target so that they can pay your burden for you

 

[WillowTree]

They're the 47% braying that other people don't pay their fair share. That's who they are.

 

[kwc57]

This is part of the Conservative argument that I don't understand

How are you supporting those 47%? They are earning money, they are supporting their own families, they are paying state and local taxes

However, by taking dependent child, mortgage, charity and medical deductions they get their federal rate down to zero

How exactly, are you supporting them?

Are they paying thru federal income tax for federal benefits, federal services, etc?? No.. that means someone else is footing that bill.. which is wrong, especially some of those very people love to scream about equality in treatment on things that concern them... Well, equality in treatment is an all encompassing thing, not just selectively choosing when it is good and when it is good to treat others differently for your benefit

They pay Social Security and Medicare

Which federal benefits are they recieving that you say they are not paying for?

If you have a family of four and make $25,000. What federal benefits are you getting that you don't pay for?

Medicare and Social Security are like insurance plans that you pay a premium into. You receive the benefit down the road. That is totally different from what income tax pays for. For all the thinks the income tax pays for, those not paying any are reaping the benefit from those who paid. Everyone should have skin in the game. Why should it cost me $100 to go to a pro football game, Romney $1000 and you get to attend for free?

 

[rightwinger]

And they can receive those things... whether they should be receiving those things, or anyone should... or whether the government is charged to do such things is a whole other convo...

Are they paying for the things the rest of us are?? Defense, federal law enforcement, the federal courts, congress itself, federal aid systems (that many are probably receiving benefit from) etc?? No... they are not... and that is unequal treatment by government under law.... everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE who earns even $1 should be paying the same % on that dollar earned in federal income tax

OK

Now we are getting somewhere

The 47% are not in fact being supported by the rest of us. However, they are not contributing to the Military, FBI, courts, congress etc

What that means is that our tax system acknowledges that they have a hard enough time paying for food, shelter and housing for their families and asking them to pay for the military, federal law enforcement etc is an unnecessary burden

Uh... if they are not paying for the services, and not paying for the very programs that they are probably receiving benefit from.. then yes, the rest are indeed supporting them

What that means is that currently we have and you support a system of unequal treatment WHEN IT BENEFITS YOU OR YOUR CAUSE....

If something is necessary for the government to do, it is indeed everyone's burden... not just a select few that you choose to target so that they can pay your burden for you

And again

It demonstrates that you are not supporting these people. You pay for federal programs that they do not.

Our tax code merely acknowleges that people who are struggling to support their families should not have to pay to support things like the military.

However, those of us who have the financial security net to adequately care for our families are expected to pay for those federal programs

Seems fair to me

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Romney did not say he was talking about all the people who pay no federal income tax. He said that 47 percent of Americans had an entitlement mentality and would vote for Obama no matter what.

He also said the 47% are "dependent upon government". That's simply not factually true - not any more true than it is to say Romney was "dependent" on government when he ran the Olympics on 1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Are they paying thru federal income tax for federal benefits, federal services, etc?? No.. that means someone else is footing that bill.. which is wrong, especially some of those very people love to scream about equality in treatment on things that concern them... Well, equality in treatment is an all encompassing thing, not just selectively choosing when it is good and when it is good to treat others differently for your benefit

They pay Social Security and Medicare

Which federal benefits are they recieving that you say they are not paying for?

If you have a family of four and make $25,000. What federal benefits are you getting that you don't pay for?

Medicare and Social Security are like insurance plans that you pay a premium into. You receive the benefit down the road. That is totally different from what income tax pays for. For all the thinks the income tax pays for, those not paying any are reaping the benefit from those who paid. Everyone should have skin in the game. Why should it cost me $100 to go to a pro football game, Romney $1000 and you get to attend for free?

Medicare and Social Security are like insurance programs. They are also are TAXES under the 16th amendment.

What the fuck does this have to do with pro-football games? Did anyone suggest government buy pro-football and sell the tickets on an income based sliding scale? Did you just make that one up entirely out of thin air to illustrate the point you don't have?

 

[DiamondDave]

OK

Now we are getting somewhere

The 47% are not in fact being supported by the rest of us. However, they are not contributing to the Military, FBI, courts, congress etc

What that means is that our tax system acknowledges that they have a hard enough time paying for food, shelter and housing for their families and asking them to pay for the military, federal law enforcement etc is an unnecessary burden

Uh... if they are not paying for the services, and not paying for the very programs that they are probably receiving benefit from.. then yes, the rest are indeed supporting them

What that means is that currently we have and you support a system of unequal treatment WHEN IT BENEFITS YOU OR YOUR CAUSE....

If something is necessary for the government to do, it is indeed everyone's burden... not just a select few that you choose to target so that they can pay your burden for you

And again

It demonstrates that you are not supporting these people. You pay for federal programs that they do not.

Our tax code merely acknowleges that people who are struggling to support their families should not have to pay to support things like the military.

However, those of us who have the financial security net to adequately care for our families are expected to pay for those federal programs

Seems fair to me

If you are being forced to pay the burden they are not paying themselves, that BY DEFINITION IS SUPPORTING THEM

Our tax code acknowledges nothing... it is a subjective treatment put forth for pandering by politicians...

There is NO CITIZEN WHO EARNS EVEN $1 who should not have to pay to support things for the government.. period

You advocate, by your own words and by definition, unequal treatment by government under law WHEN IT BENEFITS YOU OR YOUR CAUSE... that is pure subjective equal treatment... and by supporting such a thing, you have ZERO right to complain when unequal treatment by government under law is then reversed on you or those who's causes you support...

FAIR, is SUBJECTIVE... EQUALITY IN TREATMENT is not

 

[kaz]

The bottom line when all is said and done is that no matter what the reason or situation, the country can not have nearly half it's population being supported by the rest. It's unsustainable. All day long, back and forth, who comprises it, who needs it, who doesn't deserve it, who pays taxes, who doesn't....

The whole point being missed is as plain as the nose of one's face. It can't continue.

This is part of the Conservative argument that I don't understand

How are you supporting those 47%? They are earning money, they are supporting their own families, they are paying state and local taxes

However, by taking dependent child, mortgage, charity and medical deductions they get their federal rate down to zero

How exactly, are you supporting them?

Even if they get no check from government and contribute nothing to it, they are getting free roads, military, courts, ... No one should pay no taxes. It's the ultimate in pitting one group of citizens against another, those with a stake in paying for our government and those who at best contribute nothing to it.

 

[DiamondDave]

Romney did not say he was talking about all the people who pay no federal income tax. He said that 47 percent of Americans had an entitlement mentality and would vote for Obama no matter what.

He also said the 47% are "dependent upon government". That's simply not factually true - not any more true than it is to say Romney was "dependent" on government when he ran the Olympics on 1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars.

If you receive benefit, support, etc without paying for it or working for it yourself... and someone else has to foot the bill for you... that is indeed dependency

 

[beretta304]

This is part of the Conservative argument that I don't understand

How are you supporting those 47%? They are earning money, they are supporting their own families, they are paying state and local taxes

However, by taking dependent child, mortgage, charity and medical deductions they get their federal rate down to zero

How exactly, are you supporting them?

Look I'm not going to get sucked into this nonsense of back and forth all night.

We can split hairs over the exact percentage and who pays what. There are far too many people living off the rest. That's pretty clear to anyone following what's going on.

Anyone denying that is either blind, uninformed or an outright liar.

That's my only point. You guys can argue until midnight if you like. We both can spend hours providing links and sources. Each claiming the other is wrong.

We are not heading in the right direction when we have an overall economic situation like we do.

I don't care if Obama fixes it or Romney...it needs fixin'!

I'm trying to have a civil discussion on a recent political topic. You claim that those 47% are supported by the rest of us, I asked how?

I didn't claim anything. You started the thread not me and you so convoluted it that you don't know what you're trying to prove any longer.

Argue it until the cows come home. Far too many want a free ride and that's a fact. It's NOT everyone but it's TOO many...WHATEVER the percentage. You can wear your blinders and mince words and split hairs as to where the funds come from and how they are doled out and who gets them but it won't change reality.


People have given you responses all day. You just don't like any of them because they don't fit your agenda.


Here's a novel idea. You want to live off the government which is in actuality the sweat off other people's backs...move to a Socialist country. The U.S. hasn't quite become that.... yet. Now come back at me with the whine that I said love it or leave it. It's as old as your argument is getting. Solve the world's problems on a message board by obtusely insisting you're right!


I'll say it again. The system is broken and I don't care whether Romney or Obama fixes it. But don't try to say or imply that there's nothing wrong. That's what you're doing by insisting you're right and everyone else is wrong. Even OohPooPahDoo gets it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Maybe the 47% who do not pay any federal income tax? The ones expressed by Romney in this faux controversy?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The bottom line when all is said and done is that no matter what the reason or situation, the country can not have nearly half it's population being supported by the rest. It's unsustainable. All day long, back and forth, who comprises it, who needs it, who doesn't deserve it, who pays taxes, who doesn't....

The whole point being missed is as plain as the nose of one's face. It can't continue.

This is part of the Conservative argument that I don't understand

How are you supporting those 47%? They are earning money, they are supporting their own families, they are paying state and local taxes

However, by taking dependent child, mortgage, charity and medical deductions they get their federal rate down to zero

How exactly, are you supporting them?

Even if they get no check from government and contribute nothing to it, they are getting free roads, military, courts, ...

The roads are paid for mostly by gasoline taxes, shit for brains. The poor don't get exempted from that. Fuck your'e stupid.

No one should pay no taxes.

They don't pay "no taxes", shit for brains. Anyone who participates at all in the economy winds up paying some taxes.

It's the ultimate in pitting one group of citizens against another, those with a stake in paying for our government and those who at best contribute nothing to it.

Why do you insistent on fomenting class warefare based on falsehoods?

 

[kaz]

Medicare and Social Security are like insurance programs

They are nothing like insurance programs. Insurance programs collect premiums which are then invested to pay out the insured. No money is saved for medicare and social security. The money is collected and spent and then future taxpayers have to come up with the money to pay them. Which becomes less and less viable as there are fewer and fewer workers per retiree. Social Security and Medicare are just Ponzi schemes that the baby boomer gimme generation are using to screw their children for their own short term selfish benefit. Thanks RW.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Romney did not say he was talking about all the people who pay no federal income tax. He said that 47 percent of Americans had an entitlement mentality and would vote for Obama no matter what.

He also said the 47% are "dependent upon government". That's simply not factually true - not any more true than it is to say Romney was "dependent" on government when he ran the Olympics on 1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars.

If you receive benefit, support, etc without paying for it or working for it yourself... and someone else has to foot the bill for you... that is indeed dependency

Except that 47% are not dependent on government you complete moron. 47% don't pay federal income taxes, but only about half of that group actually receives government benefits. Why do you insist on ignorance?