Which Came First Creation Or Evolution?

[edthecynic]

Great. What do you say we have a little debate in the bull ring?

Are you game, Eddie?

You have been challenged in the bullring by me, show up if you dare!

 

[Mindful]

Wrong. We are talking about thermodynamics. Thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy.

Changing the wording of your lie does not make it any less a lie, but it does show that even you see your lie desperately needs modification to maintain your deception. So I must have explained things in an easy enough language for even YOU to understand!!!!

You misspelled explaining things in easy to understand language makes Ed look stupid.

Ed, we are discussing thermodynamics. In thermodynamics, thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy. You lose.

You are too Stupid to know what you are discussing!!!

We are discussing how space and time were created through a quantum tunneling event that followed the laws of conservation and quantum mechanics. And how the second law precludes a universe from being infinite in time without reaching thermal equilibrium, which we do not see. Supporting evidence that the universe began ~14 billion years ago are cosmic background radiation which shows the signature of the big bang, red shift which shows that all points are moving away from each other, Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations otherwise known as general relativity and show that all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

The best explanation for how the universe began comes from inflation theory which Stephen Hawking supports. Which tells us that it is possible for matter and energy to be created without violating the laws of conservation. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

So it does sound like I know what I am talking about.

You? Not so much.

Thank you for proving that you know nothing about what you are posting.

Have no fear.

Ding is here.

 

[ding]

Changing the wording of your lie does not make it any less a lie, but it does show that even you see your lie desperately needs modification to maintain your deception. So I must have explained things in an easy enough language for even YOU to understand!!!!

Ed, we are discussing thermodynamics. In thermodynamics, thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy. You lose.

You are too Stupid to know what you are discussing!!!

We are discussing how space and time were created through a quantum tunneling event that followed the laws of conservation and quantum mechanics. And how the second law precludes a universe from being infinite in time without reaching thermal equilibrium, which we do not see. Supporting evidence that the universe began ~14 billion years ago are cosmic background radiation which shows the signature of the big bang, red shift which shows that all points are moving away from each other, Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations otherwise known as general relativity and show that all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

The best explanation for how the universe began comes from inflation theory which Stephen Hawking supports. Which tells us that it is possible for matter and energy to be created without violating the laws of conservation. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

So it does sound like I know what I am talking about.

You? Not so much.

Thank you for proving that you know nothing about what you are posting.

Have no fear.

Ding is here.

Don't hate me because I have swag.

 

[ding]

How old did you say the universe was, Ed?

Thank you for again proving that you know nothing about what you are posting.

I am more than happy enough to let others decide for themselves.

Me too!

Great. What do you say we have a little debate in the bull ring?

Are you game, Eddie?

Do you really think you have your lies down well enough to lie to a physicist about physics? You haven't done very well here, you didn't know the change in entropy could equal zero, you claimed it was always a positive number, until I hit you with the actual equation for the change in entropy, and you didn't know that "work" as defined by physics involved motion until I hit you with the equation for work. Physics has a lot more equations, in fact equations are the language of physics and all you have is semantics, and semantics can NEVER disprove an equation!!!!

So yes I'm game if you are STUPID enough to make a fool of yourself yet again! You can be sure I will pull quotes of yours from this thread if you try to deny anything you posted here. You see I know you think all you have to do is leave out "work" from your thermal equilibrium lie and you will have perfected your lie to the point where you can deceive others who might not be physicists.

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

 

[edthecynic]

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thin except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

 

[BreezeWood]

I am more than happy enough to let others decide for themselves.

10/4 -

I am more than happy enough ...

happy does not really seem to fit the moribund responses you provide to support your positions, more like self possessed, per-motivated vindictiveness. typical of a 4th century christian congregant. .

 

[ding]

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thin except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

That's funny... I thought we were discussing thermodynamics.

 

[edthecynic]

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thing except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

That's funny... I thought we were discussing thermodynamics.

I am, but you aren't.

 

[Mindful]

Ed, we are discussing thermodynamics. In thermodynamics, thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy. You lose.

You are too Stupid to know what you are discussing!!!

We are discussing how space and time were created through a quantum tunneling event that followed the laws of conservation and quantum mechanics. And how the second law precludes a universe from being infinite in time without reaching thermal equilibrium, which we do not see. Supporting evidence that the universe began ~14 billion years ago are cosmic background radiation which shows the signature of the big bang, red shift which shows that all points are moving away from each other, Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations otherwise known as general relativity and show that all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

The best explanation for how the universe began comes from inflation theory which Stephen Hawking supports. Which tells us that it is possible for matter and energy to be created without violating the laws of conservation. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

So it does sound like I know what I am talking about.

You? Not so much.

Thank you for proving that you know nothing about what you are posting.

Have no fear.

Ding is here.

Don't hate me because I have swag.

I don't hate you.

 

[ding]

You are too Stupid to know what you are discussing!!!

We are discussing how space and time were created through a quantum tunneling event that followed the laws of conservation and quantum mechanics. And how the second law precludes a universe from being infinite in time without reaching thermal equilibrium, which we do not see. Supporting evidence that the universe began ~14 billion years ago are cosmic background radiation which shows the signature of the big bang, red shift which shows that all points are moving away from each other, Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations otherwise known as general relativity and show that all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool.

The best explanation for how the universe began comes from inflation theory which Stephen Hawking supports. Which tells us that it is possible for matter and energy to be created without violating the laws of conservation. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

So it does sound like I know what I am talking about.

You? Not so much.

Thank you for proving that you know nothing about what you are posting.

Have no fear.

Ding is here.

Don't hate me because I have swag.

I don't hate you.

You certainly don't love me.

 

[ding]

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thing except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

That's funny... I thought we were discussing thermodynamics.

I am, but you aren't.

No. You aren't. You are discussing motion.

 

[edthecynic]

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thing except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

That's funny... I thought we were discussing thermodynamics.

I am, but you aren't.

No. You aren't. You are discussing motion.

Motion is the DYNAMICS of thermoDYNAMICS.

 

[ding]

Yo aren't a physicist. You are a troll pretending to be a physicist. Big difference.

I just beat your ass in the bull ring. Let's see you respond.

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thing except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

That's funny... I thought we were discussing thermodynamics.

I am, but you aren't.

No. You aren't. You are discussing motion.

Motion is the DYNAMICS of thermoDYNAMICS.

Can you show me where the word motion is explicitly used in any of the four laws of thermodynamics?

 

[edthecynic]

If you knew anything at about physics you would know you did no such thing except make a complete fool of yourself again.

I've noticed every time you make a fool of yourself, you pat yourself on the back.

March 01, 2012
RUSH: To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it." It's a blessing! You know, the worst thing would be to be dumb and to know it -- and there's evidence all over that the dumb do not know they're dumb.

That's funny... I thought we were discussing thermodynamics.

I am, but you aren't.

No. You aren't. You are discussing motion.

Motion is the DYNAMICS of thermoDYNAMICS.

Can you show me where the word motion is explicitly used in any of the four laws of thermodynamics?

You would actually have to understand something about thermodynamics, work and kinetic energy to understand the answer to that question, so that lets you out!

The first law of thermodynamics states that the rate of change of the total energy of the fixed mass of fluid in V, i.e. the rate of change of the sum of the kinetic energy and internal energy is equal to the rate of work done on the fluid mass plus the rate at which heat added to the fluid mass.

 

[ding]

^ works as a janitor at a special needs school.

 

[ding]

Apparently Ed things the universe is like an HVAC system.

The amount of energy in the universe is constant. Once space and time were created, nothing has been added and nothing has been removed. And every single time there is a conversion between matter and energy (yes, they are equivalent) there is a loss of usable energy. Do this enough times and the universe reaches maximum disorder and the temperature of the universe is spatially uniform.

No amount of arm waving will alter this fact.

 

[edthecynic]

^ works as a janitor at a special needs school.

That you still attend.

 

[ding]

^ works as a janitor at a special needs school.

That you still attend.

As your master.

 

[edthecynic]

^ works as a janitor at a special needs school.

That you still attend.

As your master.

You wish.

 

[ding]

^ works as a janitor at a special needs school.

That you still attend.

As your master.

You wish.

You misspelled yes master.