Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[theHawk]

Jews do not accept Jesus as their messiah therefore they are still waiting.

You all have to face that fact that Jews and Christians worship different gods

Correct, the Jews that did not accept Jesus have rebuked the very God they proclaimed they were worshipping.

Jesus said, if you know my Father you would know me, and if you know him you would know his Father.

Jews had a long history of disobeying God’s laws, so it isn’t a surprise most of them blundered again when it came to Jesus. It is such a shame because Jesus actually simplified the law down to just accepting him as Lord, who died for our sins. Even today they can convert and be saved, yet they likely will not.

 

[Blues Man]

Correct, the Jews that did not accept Jesus have rebuked the very God they proclaimed they were worshipping.

Jesus said, if you know my Father you would know me, and if you know him you would know his Father.

Jews had a long history of disobeying God’s laws, so it isn’t a surprise most of them blundered again when it came to Jesus. It is such a shame because Jesus actually simplified the law down to just accepting him as Lord, who died for our sins. Even today they can convert and be saved, yet they likely will not.

Except maybe it is the Christians who are wrong.

hmmmmm.

 

[EMH]

If I remember correctly Jesus fed them.

5,000 people to feed

One ancient wicker basket of fish = feeds max 200 people for one small meal

Some bread

Not even close...

 

[ActionJackson]

In the thread titled, "Knowledge, the forbidden fruit", ABikerSailor requested I start this new thread to discuss this topic. ABikerSailor contends that Judaism came before Christianity. I contend the opposite. Below are my opening remarks:

I understand that this discussion will come to no agreement if you do not believe in Christianity. So that is my first question to you, are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught? If not, then I will simply state why I believe that a belief in Christ came before Judaism and leave it at that. However, if you do believe in Christ, then a more detailed discussion about Christ would be in order and the discussion can continue.

Christ is eternal. So Christ came before all religions.

 

[EMH]

I'm sensing some hostility here......

JFK
USS Liberty
RFK
MLK
Marines in Lebanon 1983
911

YEAH, plenty...

 

[BackAgain]

Who came first, Moses or Jesus???

Maybe Moses by 1300 years....






Jesus was a Jew. The paradox of Christianity is as follows.

Jews observed Jesus. Jews do not believe in Jesus (otherwise there would be no Judaism, but rather just Christianity, since the Christian Bible contains the Torah).

So every other demographic that does believe in Jesus is sure they get better information on Jesus from a BOOK written by Jews 2000 years ago than those who were actually there and observed Jesus when he was alive.


Sorry, but parroting is not a good way to find truth. Observing is...


What Jews say about Jesus actually makes complete sense, starting with


Give up everything and follow me....


Um, Jesus, who gets all of my possessions?

Jesus = I do, and you get a hut, the right to shut up and follow orders and eat whatever I give you....


Who cheered Barabbas? Who cheered the actual crucifixion?

The 5000 morons who fell for the "I can see" scam and lost everything...

The ORIGINAL MORONS = the ORIGINAL "Christians"

Religious bigotry looks like a perfect fit for you.

 

[EMH]

Religious bigotry looks like a perfect fit for you.

Card tossing is for those schooled on THE DATA...

 

[BackAgain]

Card tossing is for those schooled on THE DATA...

Bigotry is for you bigots.

 

[onefour1]

The prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation regarding the time when the Jews eventually come to the realization that Jesus is Jehovah and the Great I AM.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:48-56
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.

49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.

50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.

51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?

52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.

53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.

55 And Satan shall be bound, that he shall have no place in the hearts of the children of men.

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

 

[Lisa558]

The prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation regarding the time when the Jews eventually come to the realization that Jesus is Jehovah and the Great I AM.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:48-56
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.

49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.

50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.

51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?

52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.

53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them.

55 And Satan shall be bound, that he shall have no place in the hearts of the children of men.

56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.

So it says THAT in the Christian Bible? No wonder there’s still so much antisemitism toward current-day Jews.

 

[Woodznutz]

Most of the descendants of the "Hebrew nation" (Israel) are doing well. Only the Jews have suffered the atrocity of the Holocaust.

Edit.
Although the Jews and a few others were targeted by the Nazi's millions of civilians from many nations were also killed.

World War II casualties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Woodznutz]

So it says THAT in the Christian Bible? No wonder there’s still so much antisemitism toward current-day Jews.

That is in the book of the Latter-Day Saints, the Mormons, not the traditional Bible (although the theme is similar to that of the traditional Bible).

 

[onefour1]

Christ will save the Jews who are his ancient covenant people from all nations that gather against them in the last days. He loves them and still recognizes them and saves them. It is then that they will come to the realization that Jesus is their God.

 

[Lisa558]

That is in the book of the Latter-Day Saints, the Mormons, not the traditional Bible (although the theme is similar to that of the traditional Bible).

Ugh. So the Mormon Bible teaches anti-Jewish attitudes also.

 

[Lisa558]

Christ will save the Jews who are his ancient covenant people from all nations that gather against them in the last days. He loves them and still recognizes them and saves them. It is then that they will come to the realization that Jesus is their God.

Yes, we know that Christianity teaches this.

Maybe one day Christians will realize Jesus was just a man. (Sort of insulting to say that, but its basically what you just said about Jews, in reverse,)

 

[onefour1]

So it says THAT in the Christian Bible? No wonder there’s still so much antisemitism toward current-day Jews.

Here is a chapter from the Old Testament of the Bible that tells of future events that will occur where the Lord God of Israel will come and set his feet upon the Mount of Olives and fight against the enemies of Israel.



Zechariah 14

At His Second Coming, the Lord will fight for Israel—His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives—He will be King over all the earth—Plagues will destroy the wicked.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the alight shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and bit shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 ¶ And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 ¶ In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

I believe Jews still believe in the book of Zechariah.

 

[onefour1]

Ugh. So the Mormon Bible teaches anti-Jewish attitudes also.

It is simply teaching that Jesus is their God and that He will save them from their plight. The only thing anti-jewish about it is that it teaches that Jesus is their God. Which time will tell if this be true or not. It teaches no one to hate nor persecute the Jews.

 

[Viktor]

In the thread titled, "Knowledge, the forbidden fruit", ABikerSailor requested I start this new thread to discuss this topic. ABikerSailor contends that Judaism came before Christianity. I contend the opposite. Below are my opening remarks:

I understand that this discussion will come to no agreement if you do not believe in Christianity. So that is my first question to you, are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught? If not, then I will simply state why I believe that a belief in Christ came before Judaism and leave it at that. However, if you do believe in Christ, then a more detailed discussion about Christ would be in order and the discussion can continue.

Judaism began in 1231 BC when the Hebrew tribes received the Torah and Talmud at Mount Sinai. Without
the Torah, there is no Judaism.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Judaism and Christianity are half-sisters, and Islam is their step sister.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Ugh. So the Mormon Bible teaches anti-Jewish attitudes also.

Indeed, it does. The Book of Mormon teaches that our Jewish ancestors must fall and later be redeemed by their descendants in the New World (British Israelism). It can be very convoluted. I meant to a Religious Education conference on a day with a very believing Mormon friend. Interesting if bewildering.