Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[Votto]

The Quran is largely a mockery of the Bible, as Ishmael mocked Isaac.

The NT does not condemn the OT as being "corrupted". In fact, much of the OT is used to show how prophesy predicted Jesus coming. One such example is Daniel 9:24-27 which is basically a calendar for the coming of the Messiah from when Daniel wrote it. Guess what, it is spot on.

What are the seventy sevens in Daniel 9:24-27? | GotQuestions.org

What are the seventy sevens in Daniel 9:24-27? Do the seventy sevens represent 490 years in God’s program?

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Conversely, Mohammad "fixed" much of what is in the Bible himself, basically rewriting it.

For example, Mohammad insisted that Jesus did not really die on the cross. He said that God put some other poor soul there to die in his place

Bizarre.

 

[Lisa558]

It is simply teaching that Jesus is their God and that He will save them from their plight. The only thing anti-jewish about it is that it teaches that Jesus is their God. Which time will tell if this be true or not. It teaches no one to hate nor persecute the Jews.

Not really. It’s saying that Jewish beliefs are wrong, and that they need to adopt Christian beliefs if they want to be saved. That’s sends. Message that Jews are wrong, and pig-headed. It leads people to have negative attitudes toward Jews.

 

[Viktor]

Not really. It’s saying that Jewish beliefs are wrong, and that they need to adopt Christian beliefs if they want to be saved. That’s sends. Message that Jews are wrong, and pig-headed. It leads people to have negative attitudes toward Jews.

Christians claim Jesus is the Messiah predicted in the Old Testament, but that is a lie. The OT foretells a powerful politician and military leader who will drive the Romans out of the Holy Land and reestablish the Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus does not fit at all.

 

[Meriweather]

Not really. It’s saying that Jewish beliefs are wrong, and that they need to adopt Christian beliefs if they want to be saved. That’s sends. Message that Jews are wrong, and pig-headed. It leads people to have negative attitudes toward Jews.

What is interesting about Jesus is how many times he noted the faithfulness of so many Jews, noting he was there for the lost, not all those who were healthy; he was there for the one percent, not the ninety-nine percent who had not gone astray. He was calling people who had turned away from God to turn around. He was not calling people who were already turned toward God to turn around.

 

[Lisa558]

Christians claim Jesus is the Messiah predicted in the Old Testament, but that is a lie. The OT foretells a powerful politician and military leader who will drive the Romans out of the Holy Land and reestablish the Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus does not fit at all.

Yeah, I know all about what Christians claim. I’ve many times been invited out to lunch, or their homes, under the pretense that they are interested in a friendship, but as soon as the drinks are order, the real purpose is revealed: an attempt to convert. The Book of Daniel is a biggie they quote from to convince me. Or they’ll hit me over the head with “Jesus said this,” or my personal favorite, “Gd is angry at you for rejecting his son.”

Of course, most Christians are not like that and are respectful about my beliefs.

 

[Lisa558]

What is interesting about Jesus is how many times he noted the faithfulness of so many Jews, noting he was there for the lost, not all those who were healthy; he was there for the one percent, not the ninety-nine percent who had not gone astray. He was calling people who had turned away from God to turn around. He was not calling people who were already turned toward God to turn around.

So are you saying that Christians do NOT think all Jews are damned to hell? The religious ones seem to think so.

 

[Meriweather]

So are you saying that Christians do NOT think all Jews are damned to hell? The religious ones seem to think so.

I am pointing out Jews can use Jesus' own words to instruct Christians.

I have a Jewish goddaughter who had tragedy after tragedy enter her life. During one of these times she chose to become Christian, but then later (after still another tragedy) wanted to return to her Jewish roots and my blessing to do so. She felt a deep, true calling. I am not the Holy Spirit of God, nor would I do anything to block the Spirit of God. She has my blessing and my prayers. There is absolutely nothing in the Jewish faith that puts her in danger of hell, let alone damnation. It hurts me to think of any Christian of any denomination saying anything that would hurt her. So I point out how I would advise her.

 

[Viktor]

So are you saying that Christians do NOT think all Jews are damned to hell? The religious ones seem to think so.

It does not matter to Jews what they say. There is no Hell in Judaism.

 

[Lisa558]

I am pointing our Jews can use Jesus' own words to instruct Christians.

I have a Jewish goddaughter who had tragedy after tragedy enter her life. During one of these times she chose to become Christian, but then later (after still another tragedy) wanted to return to her Jewish roots and my blessing to do so. She felt a deep, true calling. I am not the Holy Spirit of God, nor would I do anything to block the Spirit of God. She has my blessing and my prayers. There is absolutely nothing in the Jewish faith that puts her in danger hell, let alone damnation. It hurts me to think of any Christian of any denomination saying anything that would hurt her. So I point out how I would advise her.

Thank you. Much appreciated. I wish all Christians could be like you.

 

[Viktor]

Yeah, I know all about what Christians claim. I’ve many times been invited out to lunch, or their homes, under the pretense that they are interested in a friendship, but as soon as the drinks are order, the real purpose is revealed: an attempt to convert. The Book of Daniel is a biggie they quote from to convince me. Or they’ll hit me over the head with “Jesus said this,” or my personal favorite, “Gd is angry at you for rejecting his son.”

Of course, most Christians are not like that and are respectful about my beliefs.

That is one reason Jews are forbidden to proselytize.

 

[Lisa558]

It does not matter to Jews what they say. There is no Hell in Judaism.

No, of course not. And when my new “friends” invited me to lunch and then proceeded to tell me that unless I converted I was going to hell, I was not worried in the slightest. But it does bother me that SOME Christians keep at it relentlessly, so sure of their superior beliefs.

What a difference compared to what Jews believe: that there is a path to The World to Come for the righteous of all faiths.

 

[onefour1]

Not really. It’s saying that Jewish beliefs are wrong, and that they need to adopt Christian beliefs if they want to be saved. That’s sends. Message that Jews are wrong, and pig-headed. It leads people to have negative attitudes toward Jews.

Christians believe that the Jewish belief that Jesus is not the Messiah is wrong. And yes we do believe that salvation is through Jesus Christ. Yes we believe that the Jews are wrong about Christ and in the future when Christ comes again they will learn the truth. The only negative attitude it brings against Judaism is that they are mistaken about who God really is. The Jews were God's ancient covenant people and He still loves them and wishes for them to recognize Jesus as their Savior. Most Christians are supportive of the Jews. We understand that through them we have the Biblical account of God and his word. Through the Jews Jesus was born into the world. Jesus himself is of Jewish lineage. We know that God will save his Jewish heritage people from utter destruction when He comes again on the earth. Many of the teachings of the Jews were given to them by God himself, we only believe that they are mistaken as to his true identity. Christianity is not anti-Jew but hope for the day when we will all worship the same God as he is the source of both our religions. Christians believe that source came through Jesus Christ himself.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you. Much appreciated. I wish all Christians could be like you.

And thank you. My prayer is for all people of all faiths to become aware that the light of God is upon all. I've often thought people of faith who attempt to instruct those of a different faith can be compared to someone taking a candle out into the noon-day sun in an attempt to help the sun bring us daylight.

 

[BreezeWood]

Christ is eternal. So Christ came before all religions.

just a side not pertaining to your mental condition -

who in their right mind would place themselves inside a woman's uterus for 9 months waiting to be "born" ... and then act like a baby, learn how to walk and spend 30 years - growing up.

- in some boondock backwoods middleast hick town than the capital of world civilization at that time - rome.

 

[Lisa558]

Christians believe that the Jewish belief that Jesus is not the Messiah is wrong. And yes we do believe that salvation is through Jesus Christ. Yes we believe that the Jews are wrong about Christ and in the future when Christ comes again they will learn the truth. The only negative attitude it brings against Judaism is that they are mistaken about who God really is. The Jews were God's ancient covenant people and He still loves them and wishes for them to recognize Jesus as their Savior. Most Christians are supportive of the Jews. We understand that through them we have the Biblical account of God and his word. Through the Jews Jesus was born into the world. Jesus himself is of Jewish lineage. We know that God will save his Jewish heritage people from utter destruction when He comes again on the earth. Many of the teachings of the Jews were given to them by God himself, we only believe that they are mistaken as to his true identity. Christianity is not anti-Jew but hope for the day when we will all worship the same God as he is the source of both our religions. Christians believe that source came through Jesus Christ himself.

And that’s all negative and insulting!

Just leave us be.

 

[Lisa558]

And thank you. My prayer is for all people of all faiths to become aware that the light of God is upon all. I've often thought people of faith who attempt to instruct those of a different faith can be compared to someone taking a candle out into the noon-day sun in an attempt to help the sun bring us daylight.

….or, to use a different phrase, preaching to the choir.

 

[Cougarbear]

In the thread titled, "Knowledge, the forbidden fruit", ABikerSailor requested I start this new thread to discuss this topic. ABikerSailor contends that Judaism came before Christianity. I contend the opposite. Below are my opening remarks:

I understand that this discussion will come to no agreement if you do not believe in Christianity. So that is my first question to you, are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught? If not, then I will simply state why I believe that a belief in Christ came before Judaism and leave it at that. However, if you do believe in Christ, then a more detailed discussion about Christ would be in order and the discussion can continue.

Trying to force us to debate with your rules is stupid and unproductive. So, the question is, did Judah come before Jesus Christ? Duh! Do I really have to explain this to you? Judah, one of the 12 tribes of Israel came centuries before in 1565 B.C. The Jews are direct descendants of Judah. Thus, they follow the religion of Israel.

 

[Meriweather]

….or, to use a different phrase, preaching to the choir.

Yes. How it seems to me is that people place limits on God, which everyone, I am sure would think funny as God is limitless. I believe God can reach every one of us where we are and draw all who are willing to Himself. A hymn I love notes that our faith in God is only a shadow of His faith in us; our love of Him only a shadow of His love of us. And that means all of us. Even atheists. Those closest to God are about a millimeter closer than all the rest.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus Was the First Protestant

It was the Jewish high priests, collaborators with Roman occupation, who requested Pilate to execute Jesus. When Christianity developed its own vicious hierarchy, which also collaborated with the decadent Roman upper class, they shifted the blame to the Jewish laity.

the fact remains, the crucifixion of jesus and those others that gave their lives during that time stems from the corrupt teachings of moses than the heavenly prescribed religion of antiquity granted a&e at their request to attain self determination to live freely in paradise as equals to those that preceded them.

than the lias of judaism and the sins they themselves alone are guilty of, the false tablets they claim etched in the heavens w/ 10 comandments used by all three desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

 

[onefour1]

Trying to force us to debate with your rules is stupid and unproductive. So, the question is, did Judah come before Jesus Christ? Duh! Do I really have to explain this to you? Judah, one of the 12 tribes of Israel came centuries before in 1565 B.C. The Jews are direct descendants of Judah. Thus, they follow the religion of Israel.

Those rules were for ABikerSailor who seems to be absent after requesting I create this forum for he and I to discuss this topic. I didn't intend for this to be against what you believe since you are of the same faith as I am. Read post #11 to see my view of what I am speaking of.