Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[onefour1]

In the thread titled, "Knowledge, the forbidden fruit", ABikerSailor requested I start this new thread to discuss this topic. ABikerSailor contends that Judaism came before Christianity. I contend the opposite. Below are my opening remarks:

I understand that this discussion will come to no agreement if you do not believe in Christianity. So that is my first question to you, are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught? If not, then I will simply state why I believe that a belief in Christ came before Judaism and leave it at that. However, if you do believe in Christ, then a more detailed discussion about Christ would be in order and the discussion can continue.

 

[EMH]

I contend the opposite.

Who came first, Moses or Jesus???

Maybe Moses by 1300 years....

if you do not believe in Christianity

Jesus was a Jew. The paradox of Christianity is as follows.

Jews observed Jesus. Jews do not believe in Jesus (otherwise there would be no Judaism, but rather just Christianity, since the Christian Bible contains the Torah).

So every other demographic that does believe in Jesus is sure they get better information on Jesus from a BOOK written by Jews 2000 years ago than those who were actually there and observed Jesus when he was alive.


Sorry, but parroting is not a good way to find truth. Observing is...


What Jews say about Jesus actually makes complete sense, starting with


Give up everything and follow me....


Um, Jesus, who gets all of my possessions?

Jesus = I do, and you get a hut, the right to shut up and follow orders and eat whatever I give you....


Who cheered Barabbas? Who cheered the actual crucifixion?

The 5000 morons who fell for the "I can see" scam and lost everything...

The ORIGINAL MORONS = the ORIGINAL "Christians"

 

[task0778]

Judaism is the world’s oldest monotheistic religion, dating back nearly 4,000 years. Jesus himself was a Jew, and as a religion Christianity began with his death. These are historical facts and one's belief in Christianity or not has no bearing on that. Looking forward to your perspective however, that tells us how Christianity could have come 1st.

 

[EMH]

Christianity began with his death

There is actually a 30-50 year period of "WTF" before it starts...

It did not start at death.

St. Paul's bullshit hallucination was a "catalyst" and was complete bull because THERE WERE NO SUPPORTERS OF JESUS IN JUDEA.... but there was an idea to create a "religion for unChosen MORONS"

 

[fncceo]

Jesus was a Jew.

Don't blame your Jesus on us. We have enough problems of our own.

 

[task0778]

There is actually a 30-50 year period of "WTF" before it starts...

It did not start at death.

St. Paul's bullshit hallucination was a "catalyst" and was complete bull because THERE WERE NO SUPPORTERS OF JESUS IN JUDEA.... but there was an idea to create a "religion for unChosen MORONS"

The Catholic church is traditionally said to have been founded on Pentecost, the 50th day after its founder Jesus Christ ascended to heaven. On that day, Christ's apostle Peter preached to the "multitudes," people assembled in Rome including Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and parts of Libya belonging to the Cyrenes. Peter baptized 3,000 new Christians and sent them back to their home countries to spread the word.

Catholicism 101: An Introduction to the Catholic Church

The basic tenets and practices of Catholicism spring from the assertion that the Catholic Church is the one true church with the Pope at its head.

www.learnreligions.com

 

[shockedcanadian]

In the thread titled, "Knowledge, the forbidden fruit", ABikerSailor requested I start this new thread to discuss this topic. ABikerSailor contends that Judaism came before Christianity. I contend the opposite. Below are my opening remarks:

I understand that this discussion will come to no agreement if you do not believe in Christianity. So that is my first question to you, are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught? If not, then I will simply state why I believe that a belief in Christ came before Judaism and leave it at that. However, if you do believe in Christ, then a more detailed discussion about Christ would be in order and the discussion can continue.

Christianity was born of out Judaism which was thousands of years older. In fact, Jesus was. a Rabbi so I'm not sure what this question is about.

 

[JGalt]

In the thread titled, "Knowledge, the forbidden fruit", ABikerSailor requested I start this new thread to discuss this topic. ABikerSailor contends that Judaism came before Christianity. I contend the opposite. Below are my opening remarks:

I understand that this discussion will come to no agreement if you do not believe in Christianity. So that is my first question to you, are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught? If not, then I will simply state why I believe that a belief in Christ came before Judaism and leave it at that. However, if you do believe in Christ, then a more detailed discussion about Christ would be in order and the discussion can continue.

Christianity as a religion didn't exist until after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Except there were multiple Jesus sightings in the Old Testament.

Figure that one out.

 

[theHawk]

Judaism points to the Messiah, without a Messiah there is no “Judaism”.

Elijah was prophesied to return before the Lord. (Malachi)

Elijah and Moses appeared before Jesus. (Luke 9)

So Jews were told of, and believed in the coming Messiah. So in a since they were Christians, believers in the coming Christ, even if they didn’t fully understand it.

The Jews during Jesus’s time either believed he was the Messiah, or did not. The real Jews that did were Christians. Those that didn’t were anti-Christs.

 

[fncceo]

Judaism points to the Messiah, without a Messiah there is no “Judaism”.

In fact, the concept of a Moshiach (what yáll call a "messiah") isn't an original core tenet of Judaism. The concept springs from the 2nd Temple era, and was a fringe believe of Jewish eschatology. The first reference to a Moshiach as a core belief of Judaism was from Maimonides in the 12th Century CE.

Jews have nominated many potential candidates for Moshiach, among them, Cyrus the Great and Simon bar Kokhba. Xtians and Muslims have even more candidates claiming to be the messiah, most of which were pretty crazy

List of messiah claimants - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[onefour1]

To a Christian, the God of the Old Testament, named Jehovah was Jesus Christ himself.

Exodus 6:2-3
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

It was Jehovah that Moses spoke to face to face who is also known as God Almighty and the Great I AM.


Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


The Apostle Paul tells us that the God of Moses was none other than Jesus Christ:


1 Corinthians 10:1–4
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus himself professes that he was I AM:

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So it stands that if Jesus was the God of the Old Testament who was known as the Great I AM or Jehovah, then the God who created this earth was Jesus Christ and the God whom the posterity of Adam and Eve worshipped was Jesus Christ. The God who gave Moses the ten commandments was Jesus Christ. True he did not go by the title Jesus or Christ at the time, but he was their God and they worshipped him. Thus they were Christians from the very beginning.

John 1:1-3, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus reveals that he is the God of the Old Testament in the following verse where he refers back to the Old Testament God (himself) as saying we are gods in Psalms 82:6

John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Judaism is nothing more than a belief in the Law of Moses. Judah was a son of Jacob (aka Israel), who was the son of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham. After the lesser law of Moses was instituted through Moses because of the hardness of the hearts of the children of Israel, this following of the Law of Moses continued until the time of Jesus and John the Baptist. Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses to a higher law. Judah and other tribes of Israel that remained followed this law and did not understand that it was to be fulfilled when their very God himself would come among them in the flesh and take upon himself the sins of the world. The Jews rejected Jehovah (Jesus) and to this day continue to do so. Jesus is the first and the last and his ways were had from the beginning. He is the true God of Israel.

The difference between Judaism today and Christianity is that the Jews outright reject Jesus as the Savior. Christians believe that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament and is the God of the Jews and has been since the beginning. Thus Christianity was the first and will be the last as Jesus is the true God of both the Christians and the Jews.

 

[Esdraelon]

Jesus = I do

Seriously? How do you come to this conclusion? I think you are confusing His church with His example.

 

[Esdraelon]

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

This^ was one of several times he so badly angered the Jews that they tried to kill Him.

 

[onefour1]

This^ was one of several times he so badly angered the Jews that they tried to kill Him.

Yes, this show how they rejected him though he spoke the truth.

 

[fncceo]

Yes, this show how they rejected him though he spoke the truth.

 

[cnm]

Gawds. Crazed desert religion fanatics at it again.

 

[irosie91]

Don't blame your Jesus on us. We have enough problems of our own.

no---Jesus didn't do it------it got done a few hundred years after that
Pharisee young guy was murdered by Romans

 

[BreezeWood]

... are you a believer in Christ and the things he taught?

jesus was never a jew -

Then God said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

what he taught was neither christianity nor judiasm - the c-bible is written by those that crucified him.

judiaism is the corruption of a single individual, moses that for the heavenly objective set in the beginning by the journey of a&e for self determination the liar moses will either be deemed the greatest criminal of all time or humanity will perish in extinction.

 

[irosie91]

jesus was never a jew -



what he taught was neither christianity nor judiasm - the c-bible is written by those that crucified him.

judiaism is the corruption of a single individual, moses that for the heavenly objective set in the beginning by the journey of a&e for self determination the liar moses will either be deemed the greatest criminal of all time or humanity will perish in extinction.

breezie got ONE tidbit right (congrats breezie) ---the people that wrote the NT were the people
that crucified him-----ironic but true. It was a brilliant bit of Empire Building by Constantine,
the evil, vile, sonofa bitch. Jesus was a typical victim of shitty Rome---a Pharisee jew

 

[Votto]

Don't blame your Jesus on us. We have enough problems of our own.

Putin done it

Besides, January 6th.