When Will They Ever Learn?

[montelatici]

Of course Israel is occupying Gaza, as all the parties agree, the U.S. included. Holding a population within an area of land, controlling exit and entry, and bombing and entering the place to perform periodic massacres of thousands of women and children is occupation.

As noted, not a single one of your excuses for Pal'istanian Islamic terrorism holds up.

I'm afraid once again that you see the promotion of Pal'istanian Islamic terrorism as an entitlement for adherents to an utterly hostile and belligerent politico-religious ideology.

So the Hamas Charter is not representative of the preferred allegiances of especially fanatical devotees of an especially inflexible politico-religious ideology, but the socio-political program of a hostile, gun-touting movement that seeks dominion over the entire globe deeming itself to have been sanctioned by God.

1. There were no excuses for Palestinian Christian and Muslim religion given. The legality of resistance to occupation and colonization is enshrined in international law:

"Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means,
including armed struggle;"


2. The Hamas Charter is no more representative than the Likud Charter.

1. Since when are acts of Islamic terrorism enshrined in any law?

2. As for Hamas, "yes" it is a violent Pal'istinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood birthed in the intifadah.

a) the example of Hamas in forcibly establishing Islamic law, as they interpret it upon the citizens of Gaza is antithetical to human rights.
b) their hate speech and calls for violence against "Jews"--not merely Israelis (and even that is a concern).
c) Hamas opposes peace negotiation with Israel, particularly any that includes Palestinian recognition of the State of Israel with normalization of relations between a proposed Palestinian State and Israel.
While touting democratic election, it staged a coup, killed Fatah opposition members and their families, and have forced their anti-democratic Islamic codes of contacts on Gazans.

Despite your false representation that that the Hamas Charter is no more representative than the Likud Charter, that also is a function of your islamist apologetics. The Hamas Charter has never been revised or rescinded and remains one of the most belligerent anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic documents of its type anywhere. It is for these reasons that Hamas similarly does not "play a significant role" in the quest to achieve a settlement between the Pal'istinians and Israel.

d) Hamas is sworn to the extermination of Israel per the Charter and they have murdered Israelis indiscriminately. There are no Jews living in lands under Hamas or Palestinian control.
Similarly, by justification of their Islamic ideology, they seek to establish a world under Islamic rule. They mass-murdered fellow Palestinians (e.g. Fatah) disloyal to their cause.

The Israelis have continually fought to keep from being exterminated.

They have a parliamentary democracy inclusive of Arab Israelis. Arab Israeli and Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank have increased exponentially since the establishment of the State of Israel. Israeli Arabs have a higher standard of living per capita than Arabs elsewhere in the Arab world.

Similarly, by justification of democratic principles, Israel has formally recognized the Palestinians as a people with whom a diplomatic solution for the ultimate establishment of Palestinian autonomy (i.e. State) in the West Bank and Gaza must be achieved.

Israelis are fighting to survive and live adjacent to Palestinians.

Hamas is fighting to eliminate the Israelis.

Hamas is fighting to end the Israeli blockade/imprisonment.

Eh, Monte, for your education Palestinians are growing increasingly upset with Hamas for their war crimes against the Palestinians. Some Pali supporters here have claimed Israel created Hamas. If so, great move Israel.

Gazans Speak Out: Hamas War Crimes

Yes, and you provide a wonderfully neutral source for your propaganda.

 

[MJB12741]

As noted, not a single one of your excuses for Pal'istanian Islamic terrorism holds up.

I'm afraid once again that you see the promotion of Pal'istanian Islamic terrorism as an entitlement for adherents to an utterly hostile and belligerent politico-religious ideology.

So the Hamas Charter is not representative of the preferred allegiances of especially fanatical devotees of an especially inflexible politico-religious ideology, but the socio-political program of a hostile, gun-touting movement that seeks dominion over the entire globe deeming itself to have been sanctioned by God.

1. There were no excuses for Palestinian Christian and Muslim religion given. The legality of resistance to occupation and colonization is enshrined in international law:

"Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means,
including armed struggle;"


2. The Hamas Charter is no more representative than the Likud Charter.

1. Since when are acts of Islamic terrorism enshrined in any law?

2. As for Hamas, "yes" it is a violent Pal'istinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood birthed in the intifadah.

a) the example of Hamas in forcibly establishing Islamic law, as they interpret it upon the citizens of Gaza is antithetical to human rights.
b) their hate speech and calls for violence against "Jews"--not merely Israelis (and even that is a concern).
c) Hamas opposes peace negotiation with Israel, particularly any that includes Palestinian recognition of the State of Israel with normalization of relations between a proposed Palestinian State and Israel.
While touting democratic election, it staged a coup, killed Fatah opposition members and their families, and have forced their anti-democratic Islamic codes of contacts on Gazans.

Despite your false representation that that the Hamas Charter is no more representative than the Likud Charter, that also is a function of your islamist apologetics. The Hamas Charter has never been revised or rescinded and remains one of the most belligerent anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic documents of its type anywhere. It is for these reasons that Hamas similarly does not "play a significant role" in the quest to achieve a settlement between the Pal'istinians and Israel.

d) Hamas is sworn to the extermination of Israel per the Charter and they have murdered Israelis indiscriminately. There are no Jews living in lands under Hamas or Palestinian control.
Similarly, by justification of their Islamic ideology, they seek to establish a world under Islamic rule. They mass-murdered fellow Palestinians (e.g. Fatah) disloyal to their cause.

The Israelis have continually fought to keep from being exterminated.

They have a parliamentary democracy inclusive of Arab Israelis. Arab Israeli and Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank have increased exponentially since the establishment of the State of Israel. Israeli Arabs have a higher standard of living per capita than Arabs elsewhere in the Arab world.

Similarly, by justification of democratic principles, Israel has formally recognized the Palestinians as a people with whom a diplomatic solution for the ultimate establishment of Palestinian autonomy (i.e. State) in the West Bank and Gaza must be achieved.

Israelis are fighting to survive and live adjacent to Palestinians.

Hamas is fighting to eliminate the Israelis.

Hamas is fighting to end the Israeli blockade/imprisonment.

Eh, Monte, for your education Palestinians are growing increasingly upset with Hamas for their war crimes against the Palestinians. Some Pali supporters here have claimed Israel created Hamas. If so, great move Israel.

Gazans Speak Out: Hamas War Crimes

Yes, and you provide a wonderfully neutral source for your propaganda.

You mean like the Arab website Vetogate.com?

Angry Palestinians Attack Hamas Official Over Gaza Destruction

 

[montelatici]

Arutz Sheva propaganda, nothing from vetogate.com.

 

[MJB12741]

Arutz Sheva propaganda, nothing from vetogate.com.

Good luck with your reading disorder. Here, try again.


"The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes. Armed Hamas terrorists from the Izzedine al-Kassam Brigades extricated Abu Zuri and arrested the angry residents.

Arabic website VETOGATE.COM said that reporters in Gaza are well aware of the incident but are afraid to report it, because Hamas's security agency could go after them if they do."

 

[montelatici]

Arutz Sheva propaganda, nothing from vetogate.com.

Good luck with your reading disorder. Here, try again.


"The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes. Armed Hamas terrorists from the Izzedine al-Kassam Brigades extricated Abu Zuri and arrested the angry residents.

Arabic website VETOGATE.COM said that reporters in Gaza are well aware of the incident but are afraid to report it, because Hamas's security agency could go after them if they do."

Arutz Sheva made those claims, you haven't a clue what the Arab website said. You can't read Arabic.

 

[docmauser1]

Arutz Sheva propaganda, nothing from vetogate.com.

Good luck with your reading disorder. Here, try again.
"The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes. Armed Hamas terrorists from the Izzedine al-Kassam Brigades extricated Abu Zuri and arrested the angry residents.
Arabic website VETOGATE.COM said that reporters in Gaza are well aware of the incident but are afraid to report it, because Hamas's security agency could go after them if they do."

Arutz Sheva made those claims, you haven't a clue what the Arab website said. You can't read Arabic.

But they can, of course.

 

[MJB12741]

Arutz Sheva propaganda, nothing from vetogate.com.

Good luck with your reading disorder. Here, try again.
"The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes. Armed Hamas terrorists from the Izzedine al-Kassam Brigades extricated Abu Zuri and arrested the angry residents.
Arabic website VETOGATE.COM said that reporters in Gaza are well aware of the incident but are afraid to report it, because Hamas's security agency could go after them if they do."

Arutz Sheva made those claims, you haven't a clue what the Arab website said. You can't read Arabic.

But they can, of course.

I gues Monte believes the Palestinians love Hamas despite so many links stating otherwise. Hey, okay by me.

 

[montelatici]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

 

[MJB12741]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

 

[montelatici]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

 

[MJB12741]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

As long as Hamas & Fatah continue to battle for rule over the Palestinians, that is good news for Israel.

 

[montelatici]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

As long as Hamas & Fatah continue to battle for rule over the Palestinians, that is good news for Israel.

Quite the opposite, Israel's long term existence as an exclusively Jewish state was predicated upon a sovereign and viable Palestinian state established for all the non-Jews currently under Jewish rule.

An Apartheid Jewish state with a majority of disenfranchised non-Jews living under Jewish rule won't last long.

 

[Hollie]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

As long as Hamas & Fatah continue to battle for rule over the Palestinians, that is good news for Israel.

Quite the opposite, Israel's long term existence as an exclusively Jewish state was predicated upon a sovereign and viable Palestinian state established for all the non-Jews currently under Jewish rule.

An Apartheid Jewish state with a majority of disenfranchised non-Jews living under Jewish rule won't last long.

Israel is not an exclusively Jewish state.

Identify who those alleged "disenfranchised non-Jews" would be. As there are Arabs in the Israeli parliament, could it be you just don't know the facts?

Perhaps a relative comparison would be in order. How many Jews are in the PLO / Fatah?

How many Jews are on the Hamas welfare recipient list?

 

[MJB12741]

I simply do not accept partisan news sources, they are just propaganda. It is unfortunate that you can only accept propaganda as news. Hamas are an Islamist group, I don't care for them myself, but you do not accept the fact that due to Israel's behavior, Palestinians are becoming hardened against Israel and its Jewish regime so are trending to supporting Hamas rather then the PLO/Fataha.

Here is a neutral source (Reuters).

"Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll"

Hamas gains in popularity in Gaza, West Bank since war with Israel: poll

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

As long as Hamas & Fatah continue to battle for rule over the Palestinians, that is good news for Israel.

Quite the opposite, Israel's long term existence as an exclusively Jewish state was predicated upon a sovereign and viable Palestinian state established for all the non-Jews currently under Jewish rule.

An Apartheid Jewish state with a majority of disenfranchised non-Jews living under Jewish rule won't last long.

Israel is not an exclusively Jewish state.

Identify who those alleged "disenfranchised non-Jews" would be. As there are Arabs in the Israeli parliament, could it be you just don't know the facts?

Perhaps a relative comparison would be in order. How many Jews are in the PLO / Fatah?

How many Jews are on the Hamas welfare recipient list?

How many Jews are there in Arab countries? Or even Christians for that matter? In Israel Muslim Palestinian citizens are even given equal voting rights in the Knesset. Oh yeah, lets talk about "apartheid Israel." Heh Heh!

 

[montelatici]

And that's good news for Israel. No more waste of time with peace offerings, land concessions & negotiations for a Palestinian State.

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

As long as Hamas & Fatah continue to battle for rule over the Palestinians, that is good news for Israel.

Quite the opposite, Israel's long term existence as an exclusively Jewish state was predicated upon a sovereign and viable Palestinian state established for all the non-Jews currently under Jewish rule.

An Apartheid Jewish state with a majority of disenfranchised non-Jews living under Jewish rule won't last long.

Israel is not an exclusively Jewish state.

Identify who those alleged "disenfranchised non-Jews" would be. As there are Arabs in the Israeli parliament, could it be you just don't know the facts?

Perhaps a relative comparison would be in order. How many Jews are in the PLO / Fatah?

How many Jews are on the Hamas welfare recipient list?

How many Jews are there in Arab countries? Or even Christians for that matter? In Israel Muslim Palestinian citizens are even given equal voting rights in the Knesset. Oh yeah, lets talk about "apartheid Israel." Heh Heh!

The South Africans allowed a small number of non-whites to vote as well. But the vast majority of non-whites were citizens of occupied territories the whites contolled (the Bantustans) and could not vote, It was still an Apartheid state. Yes, let's talk about Israel as today's Apartheid state.

 

[Hollie]

I'm not sure if it is good news or bad news for Israel, it just demonstrates that your claims are, as usual, based on propaganda.

As long as Hamas & Fatah continue to battle for rule over the Palestinians, that is good news for Israel.

Quite the opposite, Israel's long term existence as an exclusively Jewish state was predicated upon a sovereign and viable Palestinian state established for all the non-Jews currently under Jewish rule.

An Apartheid Jewish state with a majority of disenfranchised non-Jews living under Jewish rule won't last long.

Israel is not an exclusively Jewish state.

Identify who those alleged "disenfranchised non-Jews" would be. As there are Arabs in the Israeli parliament, could it be you just don't know the facts?

Perhaps a relative comparison would be in order. How many Jews are in the PLO / Fatah?

How many Jews are on the Hamas welfare recipient list?

How many Jews are there in Arab countries? Or even Christians for that matter? In Israel Muslim Palestinian citizens are even given equal voting rights in the Knesset. Oh yeah, lets talk about "apartheid Israel." Heh Heh!

The South Africans allowed a small number of non-whites to vote as well. But the vast majority of non-whites were citizens of occupied territories the whites contolled (the Bantustans) and could not vote, It was still an Apartheid state. Yes, let's talk about Israel as today's Apartheid state.

The facts identify that Israel is not an apartheid state. As many times as you spam this and other threads with off topic references to South Africa, you're never able to address the differences that cause your claims to fail.

 

[MJB12741]

Getting back to the subject of this thread, does anyone disagree that it would be wise for Palestinians to stop attacking & killing Israeli's if you don't want far more dead Palestinians as a result?

 

[montelatici]

Getting back to the subject of this thread, does anyone disagree that it would be wise for Palestinians to stop attacking & killing Israeli's if you don't want far more dead Palestinians as a result?

I think it would be better for the Palestinians to stop using armed struggle, which is their right under several UN Resolutions, to achieve their goals.

The Palestinians should simply request enfranchisement from the Israeli state and forget about establishing a Palestinian state that Israel will never allow to be established. If Israel refuses to grant non-Jews under their control equal rights, e.g. the Jewish settlers vs. the non-Jews living in the same area, then the Palestinian people should seek redress, peacefully, via legal means through the UN, the ICJ etc.

 

[MJB12741]

Getting back to the subject of this thread, does anyone disagree that it would be wise for Palestinians to stop attacking & killing Israeli's if you don't want far more dead Palestinians as a result?

I think it would be better for the Palestinians to stop using armed struggle, which is their right under several UN Resolutions, to achieve their goals.

The Palestinians should simply request enfranchisement from the Israeli state and forget about establishing a Palestinian state that Israel will never allow to be established. If Israel refuses to grant non-Jews under their control equal rights, e.g. the Jewish settlers vs. the non-Jews living in the same area, then the Palestinian people should seek redress, peacefully, via legal means through the UN, the ICJ etc.

Okay. Then where should their Palestinian State be if not in Israel?

 

[Hollie]

Getting back to the subject of this thread, does anyone disagree that it would be wise for Palestinians to stop attacking & killing Israeli's if you don't want far more dead Palestinians as a result?

I think it would be better for the Palestinians to stop using armed struggle, which is their right under several UN Resolutions, to achieve their goals.

The Palestinians should simply request enfranchisement from the Israeli state and forget about establishing a Palestinian state that Israel will never allow to be established. If Israel refuses to grant non-Jews under their control equal rights, e.g. the Jewish settlers vs. the non-Jews living in the same area, then the Palestinian people should seek redress, peacefully, via legal means through the UN, the ICJ etc.

Islamic terrorists do not recognize peaceful negotiation or redress through appeals to "equal rights"

You should read the Hamas Charter and familiarize yourself with the Islamist principle of waqf. That term is used specifically in the Hamas Charter as it relates to the disputed territories and the state of Israel.