What's wrong with this guy?

[freeandfun1]

I saw that about them being on a "hit list". Now, if the father and son were not working together (remember, son = love Bush, father = hate Bush) why would his father list his son's company on the petition? Was he trying to set his son up?

 

[Comrade]

There are just too many coincidences on this one.

And actually, the only statements we have regarding Berg Jr's political view is from the Family.

I find this odd as hell. I realize the power of a Father figure, and having supported the Son's endevour to do (what?) in Iraq, finacially and emotionally, and given the Father's extremist ideology, I just don't buy it.

 

[Annie]

Comrade

You posted all the things that are making me unsure of the son, yet I'm of the mindset of letting the dead be in peace. The father however, well enough said.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Comrade

You posted all the things that are making me unsure of the son, yet I'm of the mindset of letting the dead be in peace. The father however, well enough said.

I know, maybe it's better left alone. I'd leave the dead well enough alone, but when the Father himself uses his own son as a political device in the greater political debate, against my own convictions of Justice and Morality, I'm inclined to respond to it.

Should I just let Berg Sr. rant w/o response because of some sacred right?

I don't really know for sure.

 

[Annie]

I understand how you feel, I think the son was 'off'. A Jew running around Iraq? Someone who'd had their password lifted 'somehow' by Moussoui?

Still unless something diffinitive shows up, not that I think we're looking, I'll watch the dad and ignor the son.

 

[rcajun90]

>If you watched the video you heard his screams. No way was he previously dead. My heart broke for the father when I saw him on the ground, the other son cradleing him. No more.<

I watched the video and it gets a little unclear when they are sawing his head off. Doesn't seem like much a struggle. Also no blood on the walls or clothes of the animals. Screams can be added in many ways. No doubt he is dead and I'm sorry for his father and family but Berg's behavior in Iraq and the families behavior after the video is a little strange. I'm not sure what it all means. BTW didn't one of the 9/11 hijackers had Bergs e-mail address?

 

[Annie]

BTW didn't one of the 9/11 hijackers had Bergs e-mail address?

The FBI questioned Nick Berg in 2002 because they found his passwords on Zacharius Moussaoui's hard drive. They cleared Berg then, since he claimed it happened on a bus at school. Kind of convoluted to say the least.

If you asked me for my email stuff, no way. A close friend, not sure why considering yahoo, hotmail, etc., but MAYBE?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by rcajun90
>If you watched the video you heard his screams. No way was he previously dead. My heart broke for the father when I saw him on the ground, the other son cradleing him. No more.<

I watched the video and it gets a little unclear when they are sawing his head off. Doesn't seem like much a struggle. Also no blood on the walls or clothes of the animals. Screams can be added in many ways. No doubt he is dead and I'm sorry for his father and family but Berg's behavior in Iraq and the families behavior after the video is a little strange. I'm not sure what it all means. BTW didn't one of the 9/11 hijackers had Bergs e-mail address?

There seems to be a host of odd circumstances, but I actually haven't researched this list or even watched the video. I have a codec problem with the viewer, which probably is just as well.

But since you brought it up...

15) Orange jumpsuit
Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo. (Compare with pictures at Guantanamo.) The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would continue wearing a U.S. custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One wonders: Was there an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb?

16) No blood at decapitation
When Berg is decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the 'Arab' who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner.

17) Berg did not move
Berg seems limp just before the beheading. It is not clear if he was moving after the time skip in the tape. While on the ground, Berg's body didn't seem move except in response to the captors movements. Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip and use of a knife. (That is unless he was long dead after the cut in the tape.) A surgeon would very likely testify that the beheading did not cause the death.

18) Berg may have been dead just before beheading
The lack of spurting blood and lack of movement suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. During the beheading, Berg's eyes are not seen. Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were open or glassy. Berg very probably was killed before the staged beheading. Did the captors have no stomach for the beheading of a living person?

19) Straight cut on the neck
The cut on Berg's neck seems to be too straight to have been done crudely and with such speed by a man wielding a large knife. Anybody who has carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.

20) Is the person in the video Berg?
Some viewers believe the person in the video only vaguely resembles Berg. (Note: presumably the family can and will identify Berg's voice and appearance.)

21) Chair
The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. One blog mentioned this was "a standard issue military chair." However, these chairs might be abundant in Iraq. (See photo comparisons at link in next point.)

22) Walls and baseboard at the killing site same color as some in Abu Ghraid prison
However, many walls may be similar in Iraq. To quote Marc Perkel (It's The Same Chair!!!! OMFG!!):
"I have some more pics but the walls are the same yellow color and the baseboard is the same color as Abu Ghraib prison."

More Videotape Anomalies

23) The videotape was quite blurred.

24) A quickly disappearing video source?
A Reuters journalist in Dubai first named the Muntada al-Ansar al-Islami website as the source for the video - at www.al-ansar.biz. Although the site has now been shut down, Aljazeera.net had looked at the site within ninety minutes of the story breaking - and could find no such video footage. But Fox News, CNN and the BBC were all able to download the footage from the Arabic-only website and report the story within the hour.

25) Tape editing
The video tape is obviously spliced together and heavily edited: Going from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

26) Long time jump in datestamp
There is a significant time jump on tape from a datestamp in the tape of about 2:44:40 to about 1347. There could have been two cameras recording this event. However, there were changes in dress after the fact that would lead to the idea of an elapsed time.

27) Scream dubbed in: Screaming starts while Berg is not moving and before he is touched
Whatever the mismatch in the speaker and video (next point), videotape cognoscenti have said the scream was amateurishly dubbed into the tape. The writer of this K5 article reviewed this issue closely: The screaming starts (at 4:31 - on the copy I viewed, not the time stamp) about 5 to 6 seconds before Berg is touched (at 4:36) and he is moved to his side. He is just sitting there like a lump. While the screaming commences for (1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 seconds), his head doesn't move and his mouth doesn't appear to move (though the tape is blurry), nor does he seem to be physically screaming at any time. Yet the audio plays a loud vigorous screaming. The exact same dubbed screaming continues after the long time jump and a bit of a time gap with silence and after some cutting on the head, during which Berg is not moving. This screaming seems clearly dubbed and is highly incongruous with Berg's lack of activity.

28) Handling of papers on video
"Terrorist" reader flips through pages of 'statement' at one point. He keeps ending up on the same page for awhile. As noted below, this would very likely produce a gap in speech, which is out of sync with the smooth timing of the spoken statement.

29) Audio is dubbed: Tape of speaker and video are out of sync
Audio experts note the tape is clearly dubbed. The speaker recording is different from executioner video recording, due to lag between audio and video.
From "In the Absence of Truth from the White House, Conspiracy Theories Emerge About the Nick Berg Murder" at buzzflash.com:
"Analysis of Execution video -- I propose that the executioner's voice (according to my analysis of listening closely to the audio feed) is not that of the killer's. When listening to the executioner's voice on the tape one first notes that there is a 2-3 second lag in the "time" between audio and video, audio leading. This is consistent with the argument that the video camera and tape recorder are actually two different recording devices. What convinced me that the executioner could not be the "voice" behind the document, read prior to Nick Berg's execution, is the lack of consistency seen between the video and audio recordings, even if the 2-3 second delay is considered. A careful viewing of the video shows the executioner on "several occasions" fumbling with the 2 pages that he held, and at times reading the same page over again -- or so it appears. At least 4 times during the video the executioner is "turning over" pages, holding the pages "apart" as if confused, and all of this adds up to one conclusion. There should have been a "pause" or "2-3 second delay" in the reading of the documents during the physical handling of the documents -- but none is found that is long enough to account for it. Conclusion: The executioner is not "reading" the document. Someone else is. The executioner is trying his best to "lip sinc" the reading, but fails miserably on close inspection. The "smooth" reading of the document is entirely inconsistent (according my analysis of the video) and therefore cannot be the same person that is recording into the audio device."

30) Berg identification - why?
Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to 'verify his identity'. The guy in video looks little like Berg photos provided by family.

31) Woman's scream, instead of Berg?
The alleged scream on heard on the tape has been interpreted as a woman's scream by viewers. (The scream did not seem to this K5 article's author necessarily to be in a woman's voice.)

32) Mistranslation of Al Qaeda connection
On the first day of Nick Berg's execution, it was reported on several major news networks that al Qaeda was connected to the killer's statement, which turned out to be false. The US Intelligence translation still retains this "reference" to al Qaeda, which does not exist. The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this may not be an innocent flub. Did the US government intentionally link an alleged al Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg? Note: the word on tape was al qaed, with quite a different meaning from al Qaeda.

 

[Avatar4321]

There has been alot of comment on the lack of blood that came after the nicks head was cut off. Out of curiosity, has anyone really seen someones head chopped off before or is this the first time? maybe its normal. I dont know.

 

[Patriot]

Jesus Chrsit you all sound like a bunch of Muslims on those jihadi sights I frequent! What the fuck are you all doing conveniently using conspiracy theories? What part of Nick Berg is dead dead dead dont you get? Or maybe you all think he wanted to be dead?

 

[Doc Holiday]

How many of you have ever seen a real dead body? I have seen numerous ones that have died in various different ways. I have seen the results of parachute accidents, knife fights, gunshots deaths, and burnings. The human body never responds the way it does in the movies. Some bodies bleed alot when you think they wouldn't, others don't. The body that died from the parachute accident appeared that the guy had fallen asleep. You couldn't tell that he had fallen from 1250 feet with a sudden stop at the end.

Quit looking for the complex conspiracy answer. The answer is right in front of you. The terrorists cut off his head with a big knife while he was alive and held it up for the world to see. They admitted to doing it proudly and dared the United States to do something about it.

I say we give them what they asked for, a quick ass whipping and a date with Allah in hell.

 

[Patriot]

I have no problem making them choke on their 72 raisins.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
There has been alot of comment on the lack of blood that came after the nicks head was cut off. Out of curiosity, has anyone really seen someones head chopped off before or is this the first time? maybe its normal. I dont know.

Umm... well I do have a link showing a beheading in the same manner from a Chechnyan Muslim murdering a captive Russian soldier. It's comparable to the Berg video, which I haven't seen, btw, but I don't have doubts over the general method.

I guess I'll hold off a bit so any objections to my posting it could be made. Patriot has a point, yet I am of the mind that such links should not be hidden from the public. I have a problem with
hiding the face of true evil, and believe everyone should be able to witness for themselves just how terrible our enemy can be.

If you don't want to view the video don't click through the link and download it. We are not children who need to be sheltered from the real world.

Anyway, like I said I won't post it, if anyone objects...
A Chechnya Muslim beheads a

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Doc Holiday
How many of you have ever seen a real dead body?

I saw enough in three days in 1991 to last me a lifetime (highway of "death")..... and I agree, they never look the way they do in the movies.

The hardest to see are the guys that are still alive but just missing large parts of their bodies.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
I saw enough in three days in 1991 to last me a lifetime (highway of "death")..... and I agree, they never look the way they do in the movies.

The hardest to see are the guys that are still alive but just missing large parts of their bodies.

Thanks man, you know, your right, I'm not going to even post or share that link, after I thought it over.


Hey, is everyone old enough to remember the days when "snuff film" was an urban legend, a horrifying concept best left unviewed?

Then there was the "Faces of Death" video, which at a party I viewed and honestly at the time believed most footage to be real.

Actually then I heard it was faked, and felt... relieved.

Then I found out the helicopter scene WAS real and felt, very sad.



Still, I was innocent once, never really bearing witness to such horror that now even a child can find with a few clicks on the Internet. Since I first saw the Russian soldier, which is horrifying to see, I lost that innocence permanently.


So I say keep your eyes innocent, but believe it from others when you hear how terrible these acts are.

They are real, and that's scary, but mostly sad.

 

[freeandfun1]

Hey, I forgot about "faces of death". I remember everybody saying, "hey cool man, did you see those guys eating the monkey brains?" and shit like that....

After having seen a lot of real death, it makes one wonder why we would ever have been intrigued by something so gross.

 

[Patriot]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Hey, I forgot about "faces of death". I remember everybody saying, "hey cool man, did you see those guys eating the monkey brains?" and shit like that....

After having seen a lot of real death, it makes one wonder why we would ever have been intrigued by something so gross.

Ahh those days of innocence.....Makes one want to go back to be turned on by those sears catalog underwear ads! Right?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Hey, I forgot about "faces of death". I remember everybody saying, "hey cool man, did you see those guys eating the monkey brains?" and shit like that....

After having seen a lot of real death, it makes one wonder why we would ever have been intrigued by something so gross.

Oh, man, I forgot about the bashing of monkey skulls... oh Gawd... that was real too! Nothing like hammering a monkey skull to work up the appetite for his brains!

We both get a pass for being curious teens. Still, none of that ever compared to today's genuine article.


I wouldn't have guessed you were in Desert Storm. Very interesting! Not the Marines I suspect, were you 101 Airmobile or 1st Cav?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Patriot
Ahh those days of innocence.....Makes one want to go back to be turned on by those sears catalog underwear ads! Right?

Well not that innocent.

I was examining the merchandise before I ever payed attention to the ads.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Comrade
Oh, man, I forgot about the bashing of monkey skulls... oh Gawd... that was real too! Nothing like hammering a monkey skull to work up the appetite for his brains!

We both get a pass for being curious teens. Still, none of that ever compared to today's genuine article.


I wouldn't have guessed you were in Desert Storm. Very interesting! Not the Marines I suspect, were you 101 Airmobile or 1st Cav?

3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry, 24th ID. We were the "Hail Mary" that went into Iraq to cut of the retreat of the Republican Guard units. Barry McCaffrey was our division commander and is the one that got into trouble for having us wipe out a Republican Guard division in the Rumaila oilfields after the cease fire was called.....

We were told to stop their retreat and to keep them from taking their weapons (tanks, artillery, AA, etc.) and that is what we did. It was not as bad as many of the blog sites state, but it wasn't pretty either.