CDZ What's a Wall Going to Accomplish?

[DandyDonovan]

A Wall?

What is a wall going to do? Keep the drugs out? Keep the illegals out?

The drugs are coming into the country by underground tunnel, SUBMARINE, shipping, and now their new horizontal drillers making 10" diameter piping tunnels that can span for a mile and are undetectable.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...retruck-sized-drillers-to-make-drug-pipelines

A wall will not stop any of this.


As far as illegals, sure plenty are walking across the border, but a wall will not stop the flow of illegals as they will continue to come in by truck, tunnel, and other means.

A border wall is not going to stop a million to billion dollar human and drug smuggling enterprise. There is too much money to be made and smugglers will adapt to any wall that we try.

Sure, just because a wall has worked elsewhere and in fact works in the areas where we actually one ourselves, doesn't mean it will work now.

I swear to God...............

 

[DandyDonovan]

Keeping the Mueller investigation off the front pages.

That's hilarious given that one of the reasons the Dems are fighting Trump so hard on this and making such a big deal of it, and everything else he does is because THEY don't want the Mueller investigation and its lack of any evidence that Trump did anything wrong, on the front page.

 

[DandyDonovan]

What's a Wall Going to Accomplish?

It will give ignorant rednecks hard ons.

^ Seems like a well thought out reasonable and appropriate post for the clean zone.

I think so. I meant it. The wall turns on fascists. They like the authoritarian symbolism.

If that were true, Democrats would love the wall. They being the ultimate fascists.

 

[pismoe]

What's a Wall Going to Accomplish?

It will give ignorant rednecks hard ons.

^ Seems like a well thought out reasonable and appropriate post for the clean zone.

I think so. I meant it. The wall turns on fascists. They like the authoritarian symbolism.

-------------------------------------- I simply like keeping foreign third worlders out of the USA .

 

[dblack]

-------------------------------------- I simply like keeping foreign third worlders out of the USA .

Yep. That's really what it's all about.

 

[dblack]

What's a Wall Going to Accomplish?

It will give ignorant rednecks hard ons.

^ Seems like a well thought out reasonable and appropriate post for the clean zone.

I think so. I meant it. The wall turns on fascists. They like the authoritarian symbolism.

If that were true, Democrats would love the wall. They being the ultimate fascists.

Nah. Democrats and Republicans only like fascism when they are running things. Democrats are going to go apeshit when the regain power. You watch.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

A wall is something that a future president or political power cannot just eliminate. If Trump adheres to the Dems and just sets up more drones and people they can take it away. A steel structure is there permanently. Walls do work. Please look at Israel. Thank you.

 

[DandyDonovan]

What's a Wall Going to Accomplish?

It will give ignorant rednecks hard ons.

^ Seems like a well thought out reasonable and appropriate post for the clean zone.

I think so. I meant it. The wall turns on fascists. They like the authoritarian symbolism.

If that were true, Democrats would love the wall. They being the ultimate fascists.

Nah. Democrats and Republicans only like fascism when they are running things. Democrats are going to go apeshit when the regain power. You watch.

They already have went ape shit. I mean completely crazy

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

 

[dblack]

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

 

[pismoe]

-------------------------------------- I simply like keeping foreign third worlders out of the USA .

Yep. That's really what it's all about.

------------------------------------------ of course , what other reason could it be DBlack ??

 

[DandyDonovan]

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

That's nonsense.

In truth, Trump washed away many of the authoritarian tendencies of the GOP. For example, is he going after pot on a federal level? No. What about gay marriage? Nope that is no longer an issue at all.

Meanwhile, Democrats are making straws illegal, outlawing large cokes, trying to limit free speech , wanting to take away guns , and the list goes on and on.

 

[dblack]

-------------------------------------- I simply like keeping foreign third worlders out of the USA .

Yep. That's really what it's all about.

------------------------------------------ of course , what other reason could it be DBlack ??

Well, they make all kinds of other excuses.

 

[H B Lowrie]

Thanks to California's position on illegal immigration, blacks have suffered losing their once proud neighborhoods in East LA. They are being pushed out in favor of hispanics.

-Geaux

Oh now we're doing it for the black people. Your society has been pitting the "races" against each other since Bacon's Rebellion.

I think I know about maybe 2 Black people that dont have an aversion to picking crops like illegal immigrants do. To most Black people if they are not picking their own crops its too close to memories of slavery.

Illegal immigrants are not the only people who harvest crops for pay

"Harvester" is such a nice word for slave, isn't it. This is all part of capitalism in america. Your role as citizen is to blame the poor for the failings of american style capitalism and to participate in any slaughter or removal the system requires on its path to ever more wealth extraction, concentration and redistribution.



Press Release: Sixth Immokalee slavery case suspect arrested Group accused of keeping beating, stealing from Immokalee laborers
Posted on January 18, 2008
Press Release: Sixth Immokalee slavery case suspect arrested Group accused of keeping beating, stealing from Immokalee laborers – Coalition of Immokalee Workers



In Florida, Slavery Still Haunts the Fields
August 05, 2010 / Mischa Gaus
In Florida, Slavery Still Haunts the Fields | Labor Notes




ANTI-SLAVERY PROGRAM

Slavery in Agriculture
In one of the most recent case to be brought to court, a federal grand jury indicted six people in Immokalee on January 17th, 2008, for their part in what U.S. Attorney Doug Molloy called “slavery, plain and simple” (Ft. Myers News-Press, “Group accused of keeping, beating, stealing from Immokalee laborers,” 1/18/08). The employers were charged with beating workers who were unwilling to work or who attempted to leave their employ picking tomatoes, holding their workers in debt, and chaining and locking workers inside u-haul-style trucks as punishment (“How about a side order of human rights,” Miami Herald, 12/16/07).

This case became the seventh such farm labor operation to be prosecuted for servitude in Florida — involving well over 1,000 workers and more than a dozen employers — in the past decade. Since then, the federal government initiated two more prosecutions, bringing the total to nine as of 2012. Here below is a list of the nine cases, in chronological order:

U.S. vs. Flores — In 1997, Miguel Flores and Sebastian Gomez were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery, extortion, and firearms charges, amongst others. Flores and Gomez had a workforce of over 400 men and women in Florida and South Carolina, harvesting vegetables and citrus. The workers, mostly indigenous Mexicans and Guatemalans, were forced to work 10-12 hour days, 6 days per week, for as little as $20 per week, under the watch of armed guards. Those who attempted escape were assaulted, pistol-whipped, and even shot. The case was brought to federal authorities after five years of investigation by escaped workers and CIW members.

U.S. vs. Cuello — In 1999, Abel Cuello was sentenced to 33 months in federal prison on slavery charges. He had held more than 30 tomato pickers in two trailers in the isolated swampland west of Immokalee, keeping them under constant watch. Three workers escaped the camp, only to have their boss track them down a few weeks later. The employer ran one of them down with his car, stating that he owned them. The workers sought help from the CIW and the police, and the CIW worked with the DOJ on the ensuing investigation. Cuello worked for Manley Farms North Inc., a major Bonita Springs tomato supplier. Once out of prison, Cuello supplied labor to Ag-Mart Farms, a tomato company operating in Florida and North Carolina.

U.S. vs. Tecum — In 2001, Jose Tecum was sentenced to 9 years in federal prison on slavery and kidnapping charges. He forced a young woman to work against her will both in the tomato fields around Immokalee, and in his home. The CIW assisted the DOJ with the prosecution, including victim and witness assistance.

U.S. vs. Lee — In 2001, Michael Lee was sentenced to 4 years in federal prison and 3 years supervised release on a slavery conspiracy charge. He pled guilty to using crack cocaine, threats, and violence to enslave his workers. Lee held his workers in forced labor, recruiting homeless U.S. citizens for his operation, creating a “company store” debt through loans for rent, food, cigarettes, and cocaine. He abducted and beat one of his workers to prevent him from leaving his employ. Lee harvested for orange growers in the Fort Pierce, FL area.

U.S. vs. Ramos — In 2004, Ramiro and Juan Ramos were sentenced to 15 years each in federal prison on slavery and firearms charges, and the forfeiture of over $3 million in assets. The men, who had a workforce of over 700 farmworkers in the citrus groves of Florida, as well as the fields of North Carolina, threatened workers with death if they were to try to leave, and pistol-whipped and assaulted — at gunpoint — passenger van service drivers who gave rides to farmworkers leaving the area. The case was brought to trial by the DOJ after two years of investigation by the CIW. The Ramoses harvested for Consolidated Citrus and Lykes Brothers, among others.

U.S. vs. Ronald Evans — In 2007, Florida employer Ron Evans was sentenced to 30 years in federal prison on drug conspiracy, financial re-structuring, and witness tampering charges, among others. Jequita Evans was also sentenced to 20 years, and Ron Evans Jr. to 10 years. Operating in Florida and North Carolina, Ron Evans recruited homeless U.S. citizens from shelters across the Southeast, including New Orleans, Tampa, and Miami, with promises of good jobs and housing. At Palatka, FL and Newton Grove, NC area labor camps, the Evans’ deducted rent, food, crack cocaine and alcohol from workers’ pay, holding them “perpetually indebted” in what the DOJ called “a form of servitude morally and legally reprehensible.” The Palatka labor camp was surrounded by a chain link fence topped with barbed wire, with a No Trespassing sign. The CIW and a Miami-based homeless outreach organization (Touching Miami with Love) began the investigation and reported the case to federal authorities in 2003. In Florida, Ron Evans worked for grower Frank Johns. Johns was 2004 Chairman of the Florida Fruit and Vegetable Association, the powerful lobbying arm of the Florida agricultural industry. As of 2007, he remained the Chairman of the FFVA’s Budget and Finance Committee.

U.S. vs. Navarrete — In December 2008, employers Cesar and Geovanni Navarrete were sentenced to 12 years each in federal prison on charges of conspiracy, holding workers in involuntary servitude, and peonage. They had employed dozens of tomato pickers in Florida and South Carolina. As stated in the DOJ press release on their sentencing, “[the employers] pleaed guilty to beating, threatening, restraining, and locking workers in trucks to force them to work as agricultural laborers… [They] were accused of paying the workers minimal wages and driving the workers into debt, while simultaneously threatening physical harm if the workers left their employment before their debts had been repaid to the Navarrete family.” Workers first reported the abuse to Collier County police, and additional workers sought help from the CIW. The CIW collaborated with the DOJ and the police on the year-long investigation and prosecution.

U.S. vs. Bontemps — In July 2010, Cabioch Bontemps, Carline Ceneus, and Willy Edouard were indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of conspiracy to commit forced labor. DOJ officials accuse the three of holding over 50 guestworkers from Haiti against their will in the beanfields of Alachua County, Florida. The indictment states that Bontemps raped one of the workers in his employ and threatened her if she were to report it. The employers held the workers’ passports and visas, and forced them to work in fields recently sprayed with harsh pesticides, causing permanent scarring. The grower, Steven Davis, asked the judge during the court hearing to release Bontemps since he was key to the harvesting operation. “All these people [the workers] look up to him,” Davis said. “All these people respect him. All these people worship him.” The CIW trained local law enforcement and church groups shortly before the workers were rescued, and assisted in referring the case to the DOJ. The DOJ dropped the charges in January 2012.

U.S. vs. Global Horizons — In September 2010, staff of guestworker recruiting giant Global Horizons were charged with operating a forced labor ring active in 13 states, including Florida. Global Horizons CEO Mordechai Orian and six others were accused of holding six hundred guestworkers from Thailand against their will in what prosecutors called “the largest human trafficking case in US history.” FBI Special Agent Tom Simon described the case as “a classic bait-and-switch… They were telling the Thai workers one thing to lure them here. Then when they got here, their passports were taken away and they were held in forced servitude working in these farms.” Of the eight people originally indicted, three pled guilty; a Global Horizons manager pled guilty to conspiracy to violate the forced labor statute, and two field supervisors pled guilty to document servitude. A fourth defendant pled guilty in Thailand to recruitment fraud. In July 2012, the DOJ dropped the charges against CEO Orian and another Global Horizons executive.

For a printable list of modern-day slavery cases, download Slavery in the Fields and the Food We Eat.

Anti-Slavery Program – Coalition of Immokalee Workers

 

[DandyDonovan]

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

Seriously? A border wall is the epitome of authoritarian symbols. Wake the fuck up.

A wall that doesn't have legal ways to traverse it may be the ultimate sign of an authoritarian but......


Are you a parent? I am. Our bedroom has a door on it, not because I'm an authoritarian parent but because I only want the kids, or anyone else, entering my room with permission.

 

[H B Lowrie]

-------------------------------------- I simply like keeping foreign third worlders out of the USA .

Yep. That's really what it's all about.

------------------------------------------ of course , what other reason could it be DBlack ??

Well, they make all kinds of other excuses.

The american public has been generationally indoctrinated to go directly to guilt/sin/blame, so that responsibility for our own condition never falls upon us.

 

[dblack]

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

Seriously? A border wall is the epitome of authoritarian symbols. Wake the fuck up.

A wall that doesn't have legal ways to traverse it may be the ultimate sign of an authoritarian but...

[excuses]

Are you a parent? I am. Our bedroom has a door on it, not because I'm an authoritarian parent but because I only want the kids, or anyone else, entering my room with permission.

The government isn't our parent.

 

[H B Lowrie]

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

Seriously? A border wall is the epitome of authoritarian symbols. Wake the fuck up.

A wall that doesn't have legal ways to traverse it may be the ultimate sign of an authoritarian but......


Are you a parent? I am. Our bedroom has a door on it, not because I'm an authoritarian parent but because I only want the kids, or anyone else, entering my room with permission.

A free people does not see concentrated wealth and power as its parent, I would never indoctrinate my children in such a manner; they are to question power endlessly. And you do not have the authority do decide so for me, but thanks for the concern. I demand a free and open society. Meanwhile:

Arrests For Illegal Border Crossings Hit 46-Year Low
December 5, 201711:10 AM ET
https://www.npr.org/2017568546381/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-hit-46-year-low/12/05/

 

[Asclepias]

And obviously authoritarians exist in both parties.

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

Seriously? A border wall is the epitome of authoritarian symbols. Wake the fuck up.

A wall that doesn't have legal ways to traverse it may be the ultimate sign of an authoritarian but...

[excuses]

Are you a parent? I am. Our bedroom has a door on it, not because I'm an authoritarian parent but because I only want the kids, or anyone else, entering my room with permission.

The government isn't our parent.

And the US isnt our bedroom.

 

[DandyDonovan]

Yep. And they're currently running the Republican Party.

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

Seriously? A border wall is the epitome of authoritarian symbols. Wake the fuck up.

A wall that doesn't have legal ways to traverse it may be the ultimate sign of an authoritarian but...

[excuses]

Are you a parent? I am. Our bedroom has a door on it, not because I'm an authoritarian parent but because I only want the kids, or anyone else, entering my room with permission.

The government isn't our parent.

And the US isnt our bedroom.

It is however, OUR country.

See you people don't even make cognizant arguments.

"walls don't work"

"oh how mean of you to want to use a wall to keep people out of the country"

If walls didn't work, then building one wouldn't keep anyone out.

Your entire argument is flawed right from the start.

 

[H B Lowrie]

Are you crazy? I mean I agree the idiots running Congress are morons and liars, but authoritarians? Tell me how sir. By wanting to enforce federal immigration laws?

Seriously? A border wall is the epitome of authoritarian symbols. Wake the fuck up.

A wall that doesn't have legal ways to traverse it may be the ultimate sign of an authoritarian but...

[excuses]

Are you a parent? I am. Our bedroom has a door on it, not because I'm an authoritarian parent but because I only want the kids, or anyone else, entering my room with permission.

The government isn't our parent.

And the US isnt our bedroom.

It is however, OUR country.

See you people don't even make cognizant arguments.

"walls don't work"

"oh how mean of you to want to use a wall to keep people out of the country"

If walls didn't work, then building one wouldn't keep anyone out.

Your entire argument is flawed right from the start.

Those who threaten your vision of america are already here and in power calling the shots on the yard son. But you go ahead and keep a watch the poor and powerless for us, K? I will never stand beside you and beg to be walled in by concentrated wealth and power. Perhaps a reservation or two for your people is the answer.