What, then, does Judaism teach about Satan?

[HaShev]

I don't think you can bring up the Talmud in this case.
1) Because historical accts come from other sources before that century.
2) Because Talmud recorded accounts of it's Rabbis are highly meticulous & thus accurate.
3)the NT itself mentions the widows mite a Jannaeus Alexander coin.
4)The NT states Salome is a friend and follower of the figure and this is Jannaeus' wife who was the same, even reinstating Shimon as head priest mirroring your Shimon Peter appointment.
5)Christianity was not yet known to the writers of the Talmud, nor was Jesus image yet created as even you admit was done later by the Roman church.

Usually people rant on the Talmud in order to smokescreen & divert attention from the real issue.
Yet it's a good source for historical dating and rarely a sole source of evidence in making any point.

Christianity was hundreds of years old by the time the Talmud was written down and redacted in 350 c.e. during the height of Roman rule.

The Gospels were written hundreds of years before the romans ever got their superstitious hands on them.

However dedicated and meticulous the writers were the fact remains that from its inception the Talmud was redacted.

The Talmud is not scripture. The Gospels were recorded and preserved (in what was later put into print as the King James Holy Bible) in spite of every effort the Romans made to hunt down the believers in Jesus Christ, seize all copies and pervert the truth. The early Believers were not Roman Catholics. They were hunted down and put to death by the early Roman Catholics. Which is why the early Believers met in secret - to avoid them at all costs.

That's problematic because busting on Talmud which was accurate oral recanting of the same supposed people means you question the proven full of errors NT ability to keep stories straight especially since people like Eusebius was known to forge and manipulate texts. Earlier copies of the NT are far different then recent ones, especially with problematice verses removed like in Luke saying Jesus wasn't who theycd hope him to be. Do you know this verse exists? If not then I prove my case and if yes then you are in on the lying=making you an evil Luciferian.=Checkmate, either move you lose your king.
Talmud not being the Bible has no baring on it's uses in the case of historical dating the Rabbis and helping discern meaning of Biblical terms-slang of that era.
By making that comment, you prove my point at the lengths Christians will go to misslead a subject discussion or smokescren tactic to avoid what it reveals. Especially when that revealing makes their whole life lived on a lie=human ego 101.

Regarding the rest of the problem your reply brings forth;
quote"Believers were not Roman Catholics."
What your smokescren avoided was recognizing the believers were that of many sects and cults not Yet compiled as Christians (those that follow "A Christ").
In other words you avoid the realization that the Believers of Yeshu (HaNotzrim), Believers of Yehuda (Yehudites), Believers of Theudas (Nazarenes?), believers of Mithra (Mithraic Temples), Believers of Krishna (Christos-Krishnas)are not Roman Catholics but people like James and Paul argued that each was worshiping another Christ then they for a reason. Roman Catholics compiled them all and Christianity was therefore born out of Satan (the adversary Rome).
You can't disagree cause you teach the same thing that Rome will do that in our era. You only think itcs in our era, because you were the deceived and are the blind who needs to see you've been in the system Rome built all these ages. Thus I lift the veil from your eyes and liberate you from the Kittim (Rome), I even showed you many times how these things were occuring in 70ad, & John of Patmos was even using present tenses.

sources: Isaiah 25:7,
4Q285 5&10 Judgment of the Kittim (Romans)

 

[hobelim]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow ANY laws via the Written Torah.

Nonsense.


It is impossible to follow the instructions of the Talmud without violating the deeper implications of the written Law or at best leaving them unfulfilled..

 

[HaShev]

 

[hobelim]

Talmud is written form circa 200ce, but was called the Traditions of the Elders before that. Of course THEY existed AS Oral traditions and stories, but also some written apochryphas and commentaries existed already.
They say Mishna 200ce, but some experts will even tell you 150ce. Of course it existed in oral traditions before this.
The NT- 70ce was still being written into 150ce.

Why not try something new? Forget about Jesus and forget about your volumes of rabbinical teaching. I'll do the same.


You think the NT, which amounts to a commentary on the law, should be disregarded as a reliable source for anything. I feel that way about your beloved Talmud.

Why not throw them both in the trash for the time being, pick a topic in the Torah, and discuss that on its own merit and see what comes out?

Lets start with something easy like Kosher law.


In your own words, what do you say is the the subject of Kashrut, ?

What Divine wisdom can be derived from it?

Where is an example of the life promised for compliance and the death promised for noncompliance?

 

[Indeependent]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow ANY laws via the Written Torah.

Nonsense.


It is impossible to follow the instructions of the Talmud without violating the deeper implications of the written Law or at best leaving them unfulfilled..

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

 

[hobelim]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow ANY laws via the Written Torah.

Nonsense.


It is impossible to follow the instructions of the Talmud without violating the deeper implications of the written Law or at best leaving them unfulfilled..

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

Sure. The Law alludes to the story of the creation of heaven and earth where there are six days of creation followed by the seventh day when God rested.

When you can look out at the world see that everything is very good as God did after the sixth day, then you can rest.

Read the newspapers. It seems that there is much more work to be done.

If there never comes a time when you can look out at the world that God created and truthfully say that it is all very good exactly as it is, there will be plenty of time for you to rest when you are dead.

 

[HaShev]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.
The observance like many focuses are geared to get you to recognize
"the source".
EVERYONE fails to notice Shabbos is not a devotion towards a day but a specific day in
"REMEMBERANCE OF MY NAME".
IT'S THE SEVENTH DAY and the number seven is hinted as holy all over the place, but you don't understand why. That's because until you receive that name knowing Hebrew and the original transliteration of The city (Yeru) of Shalem, you will never put 2+2 together or in this case
7 (Sheva). Build the Temple (MIKdash)in
the name(HaShem) and the name will be revealed. Errr it already is, when Moshiach lifts the veil.

Sources:
The Evening Star (Shalem) who rises to redeem & protect & serve Dan 12:1-4.
The catalyst to the kingdom;
“War Scroll” (4Q471)
Where in verse XVII, says, “God will send eternal bliss by the might of the Princely Angel of the Kingdom of Michael. He will enlighten with joy the children of Israel.
1QM v, 1-2) States:He (Michael)will not have much room to act as Royal Messiah while battling the Sons of Darkness. (too busy debunking myths, lies and ignorance=darkness) but then also adds:
“God himself is a supreme agent of salvation and after him in importance is Michael.”
Spiritual light=knowledge and truth
It is Michael who best knows the scripture of truth- Dan 10:21 thus also called the angel (messenger)
of truth who's name is in the Mikra (bible).
The name is in the Temple (MIKDASH) in his name.- (Melakim {I Kings8:43}(2Chronicles6)
Ma'aser Sheni in the Torah says
About tithing the produced food and eating it at the Temple:
“at the site that He shall choose to place His Name”
Michael is the Thresher thus it's also called the MIKdosh (dosh=thresher).
Refering to removing the chaff from the wheat and thus thin film veil from our eyes as well
(Isaiah 25:7says Moshiach removes the thin veil from our eyes)


Jewish tradition says The name of Moshiach will be in the Torah portions;
Torah portion:
Mikeitz מִקֵּץ – Hebrew for "at the end,"
Ketz= A particularly auspicious time for Moshiach to bring the exile to an end.= Mike is the name of the Moshiach who's revealed in the Torah portion regarding the "RETURN" from Exile.
And thus "Restorer". (Ruth, Jeremiah, Isaiah- Jeremiah 11:20, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 51:9, Isaiah 59;19, Is.11:4,
Isaiah 25:8)

It is Michael who defeats the devil which is why the "Mikvah" is the name of the ritual cleansing from death.

Michael is the Shiloh (Genesis, Ezekiel)who over turns the false messiah for shiloh means the "one who's
(actual) right it is", that was stolen by the thief.

In Fact Ezra 1 and Isaiah 44-45 the redeemer is the one who battles with the Persian prince and King Cyrus' heart to do the right thing in gathering the Jews and rebuilding the Temple and Dan 10 tells you who that redeemer is by first & last name. That name coinciding with all these prerequisites, like in the name of the Bible, Temple, city Torah portions etc..

The name of Moshiach is in "the Bible" (Mikra). -Melakim {I Kings8:43)and The Torah-Devarim 14:22

RA in Hebrew=Father in Heaven. =Mike is the Father in Heaven (head of the hosts in Jewish and Islamic traditions).

Michael is the Melchizedek (Messenger & king of righteousness) Scrolls and Jewish tradition.

Michael is the Judge of judgement, the refiners fire..see my posts with sources
( to many to list)

Malachi 3:24, The Prophet Haggai 2:6-7 , Ps. 72:16, 4Q285 4-5&10, Psalms 7:7-8
4Q246, 1QS x12-18, 1QSb=1Q28b , 4Q300I ii4=4Q299 2 i I4, Melakim {I Kings8:43)Ezekiel 40-43)(Is.2:2, Zekh.14.16-21) Midrash Rabba (Exodus 18) . Exodus 23:20-22, Micah 4:5, Nahum 1. Isaiah 9:6, 11:2-3, 42:19, 61:2 .Psalms 7:7-9, 82:1, 90:4 .Jeremiel 14.
Talmud Ketubot 56a
Zohar II, 146a-146b


Even some sects of Christianity (JW's, Adventist, Coptics, Urantians, some Universalists and Mormons and few orders of Catholic Diocese) know the Biblical Moshiach is Michael.

But now during Shabos and during focus on the Holy city, and with the Torah portion and Dan 10 and elsewhere, you now secret the last name too and the place of heritage (country of origen) which is in the prefix of last names.

 

[hobelim]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

 

[Indeependent]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

 

[hobelim]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

lol.... maybe the answer was above your grasp?

The law upon which the iniquitous practice of making tefillin is based upon is not about making anything.

Would you like to know what it is about?

 

[HaShev]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

1)you just admited it's about me, I didn't.
2)you once again hit yourself and your christ who made what wasn't in his name his which is worse then pointing out what is written for you to discern.=Checkmate, you killed your king again.
Angry Bird, please stop hitting yourself.
;-)

 

[hobelim]

1)you just admited it's about me, I didn't.

lol.... Copra sanctum!

Everything is not about you, einstein.


As if everyone since Adam was waiting with bated breath for you to make your grandiose appearance and prance around these message boards like acting like a pompous ass.

And all people have to do is build a temple, stock it with animals, and install you as high priest and head butcher and the world will suddenly be transformed into a paradise....

uh huh.......

 

[Indeependent]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

lol.... maybe the answer was above your grasp?

The law upon which the iniquitous practice of making tefillin is based upon is not about making anything.

Would you like to know what it is about?

You are not addressing the fact that Talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions based upon purposely vague Biblical passsages.

 

[hobelim]

Tell me how to observe Shabbos.

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

lol.... maybe the answer was above your grasp?

The law upon which the iniquitous practice of making tefillin is based upon is not about making anything.

Would you like to know what it is about?

You are not addressing the fact that Talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions based upon purposely vague Biblical passsages.

it is not a fact that talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions about deliberately vague passages.

Conclusions based on Talmudic discussions, such as those that have inspired the practice of making and wearing tefillin, are false, misleading, a cause for stumbling, do not reveal any divine wisdom, and do not edify the people nor fulfill the law in any way.

It was obvious to me in the second grade that the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine has literally nothing whatever to do food, no thanks to the Talmud.


The law is as easy or as difficult to comprehend and comply with as it is as easy or difficult for a person to be honest with themselves and others.

 

[Indeependent]

I know this question was for Hobe, but I better answer this.

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

lol.... maybe the answer was above your grasp?

The law upon which the iniquitous practice of making tefillin is based upon is not about making anything.

Would you like to know what it is about?

You are not addressing the fact that Talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions based upon purposely vague Biblical passsages.

it is not a fact that talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions about deliberately vague passages.

Conclusions based on Talmudic discussions, such as those that have inspired the practice of making and wearing tefillin, are false, misleading, a cause for stumbling, and do not edify the people nor fulfill the law in any way.

It was obvious to me in the second grade that the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine has literally nothing whatever to do food, no thanks to the Talmud.

Your ignorance is shining.
These Talmuldic discussions have led to consensus amongst millions of Jews worldwide who had ZERO contact with each other for centuries.
Try finding 2 Greek TNTs that are identical...good luck with that.

 

[hobelim]

Wow. You made like you were going to explain how to observe the Sabbath and ended up talking about what you imagine to be about yourself.

Some messiah. I wonder what Independent thinks of your egotistical delusions?

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

lol.... maybe the answer was above your grasp?

The law upon which the iniquitous practice of making tefillin is based upon is not about making anything.

Would you like to know what it is about?

You are not addressing the fact that Talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions based upon purposely vague Biblical passsages.

it is not a fact that talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions about deliberately vague passages.

Conclusions based on Talmudic discussions, such as those that have inspired the practice of making and wearing tefillin, are false, misleading, a cause for stumbling, and do not edify the people nor fulfill the law in any way.

It was obvious to me in the second grade that the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine has literally nothing whatever to do food, no thanks to the Talmud.

Your ignorance is shining.
These Talmuldic discussions have led to consensus amongst millions of Jews worldwide who had ZERO contact with each other for centuries.
Try finding 2 Greek TNTs that are identical...good luck with that.

Ha ha very funny.


You consensus is not any more valid than the church having a consensus of billions of believers in a mangod who have had zero contact with each other..BTW, I know many Jews who would just as soon drink Jesus juice as they would wear tefillin.


The practice of wearing tefillin is completely bereft of purpose and meaning profaning the image of God into that of a capricious petty tyrant.

It amounts to setting aside the divine commands and teaching others to do the same and violating every command from the command to not worship false gods, to giving false witness, to eating the flesh of serpents, to murder.

Hashev, as devout and schooled in the Talmud as he is, is the perfect example of someone who has his reward already

 

[HaShev]

I agree everything is not about Jesus, and that admission is clearly showcasing the proud proclamation of Lucifer and his flock who only buy and sell with other fishies and mark of the beasts(the cross).
Source: yellow page ads, local trade papers, business marquis, flyers,
& TV ads=Rev 13:13

 

[Indeependent]

You couldn't answer Shabbos.
How do you make tefillin?

lol.... maybe the answer was above your grasp?

The law upon which the iniquitous practice of making tefillin is based upon is not about making anything.

Would you like to know what it is about?

You are not addressing the fact that Talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions based upon purposely vague Biblical passsages.

it is not a fact that talmudic discussion is necessary to come to conclusions about deliberately vague passages.

Conclusions based on Talmudic discussions, such as those that have inspired the practice of making and wearing tefillin, are false, misleading, a cause for stumbling, and do not edify the people nor fulfill the law in any way.

It was obvious to me in the second grade that the law which prohibits eating the flesh of swine has literally nothing whatever to do food, no thanks to the Talmud.

Your ignorance is shining.
These Talmuldic discussions have led to consensus amongst millions of Jews worldwide who had ZERO contact with each other for centuries.
Try finding 2 Greek TNTs that are identical...good luck with that.

Ha ha very funny.


You consensus is not any more valid than the church having a consensus of billions of believers in a mangod who have had zero contact with each other..BTW, I know many Jews who would just as soon drink Jesus juice as they would wear tefillin.


The practice of wearing tefillin is completely bereft of purpose and meaning profaning the image of God into that of a capricious petty tyrant.

It amounts to setting aside the divine commands and teaching others to do the same and violating every command from the command to not worship false gods, to giving false witness, to eating the flesh of serpents, to murder.

Hashev, as devout and schooled in the Talmud as he is, is the perfect example of someone who has his reward already

So you are stating that a people scattered across the Eastern Hemisphere with no contact who all kept a myriad of common religious practices until today are all going to Hell.
I admire the fact that you are a fine Christian and why I opt to remain anything but.
Remind me to never hire you as an Attorney or Business Analyst.

 

[HaShev]

"Try finding 2 Greek TNTs that are identical...good luck with that."

Let's see within the same text even:

Contradictions:
Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

(a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22).

(b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus

This most likely means Matts Christ is Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter who lived in the Herod Lysanias era and died in 6bc. While John's might be The AD era Theudas by the Jordan.
Although the verse after still can be the Galilean he refers to
As this character Jesus
decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43) after.
How do we determine which one? Well John elsewhere Says Jesus is closer to 50 and since Theudas lasted to 45 ad the AD era christ is the one John is talking about which is Theudas.

History contradicts the tales:
Jesus was supposed to have been baptized by the baptist John soon after John the Baptist had started baptizing and preaching in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberias, i.e. 28-29 C.E., when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judaea i.e. 26-36 C.E. According to the New Testament, this also happened when Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene and Annas and Caiaphas were high priests. But Lysanias ruled Abilene from c. 40 B.C.E until he was executed in 36 B.C.E by Mark Antony, about 60 years before the date for Tiberias and about 30 years before the supposed birth of Jesus!
This is why it says Satan (Rome the adversary) changes dates and time and holidays.
This throws people off the historical reality to expose the forging of the figure and his image.
Even older copies of John contradict newer ones and chapters in John contradict each other in itself so John as a whole is proven tainted and contradicting enough to not assume anything.

Mark 6:16 is the later AD Herod and Baptist AD era christ Theudas so Mark also is a Theudite.

But wait a second: both
John 18-19 and Mark 14-15 even though contradicting each other are talking about the events of Yeshu son of Mary in around 88-85 bc where he was
sentenced at passover (rarity of high holidays being used for sentencing makes this acct of Yeshu a match hard to argue.
And yet both mention Pilate a supposed AD era figure, and a crucifixion in John 19 which was not the stoned and hanged christ on passover.
The crucified christs were Yehuda and Theudas, but Yeshu son of Mary was slew and hanged even acct in Nt in
Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29,
1 Peter 2:24.
So the writers of John and Mark are blending Christs through passing confused stories down the line or on purpose, just as you acknowledge Roman forged texts have done.

What we do know is that John and Mark seem to be addressing mainly Theudas and not your claim it's Yeshu.
Yet still mix the Christs in the accts proving it's not Historical and is also a compuled mess as other texts.
Like John talking about Mother Mary being there during the AD era Crucifixion. Impossible unless Yehuda or Theudas Mom was named Mary, but then Joseph story in Matt shows Mary is the 100bc harlot character and why John of Patmos would call it the Harlot church.

HOBE was shown this and thus used
ad hominem responses to avoid answering to these problems. How quickly he forgets only to bring it up again "accusing" other texts while avoiding that which is proven problematic. THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT SATAN THE ACCUSER, how appropriate to prove the nature of the fallen ones as accusers of the Pharisee, Temple priests, Talmud, Law, Moses, Jews, etc.
The only reason my stalkers and forum flamers are not on Iggy is because they make the best examples to teach by.

 

[hobelim]

So you are stating that a people scattered across the Eastern Hemisphere with no contact who all kept a myriad of common religious practices until today are all going to Hell.

The myriad of common religious practices such as kashrut or tefillin are all based on what Jesus called the traditions of men, what became the Tamud redacted in 350.c.e., which orally dates back to after the death of Moses when as he predicted the people turned aside from the way he taught to follow the law and took to degrading practices and defiled themselves with the work of human hands, ie. tefillin..

And no, I am not saying that they are all going to hell, I said that they are already in it.

Now don't be put off by that because hell is not any worse than what Hashev has to deal with every day.

I admire the fact that you are a fine Christian and why I opt to remain anything but.
Remind me to never hire you as an Attorney or Business Analyst.

What makes you think that I am a Christian?

I do not belong to, believe in, or practice any religion.

Whatever you do, hire someone.

You don't seem to know which way the wind is blowing.