What is Wrong with Voting Requirements?

[imawhosure]

Jones, these voters can easily produce the documents required.

Don't play that silly game, please.

Older African-Americans are not alone in being disadvantaged by these un-Constitutional laws:

“By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don't have picture IDs.

To Get An ID, You Need An ID

In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents.”

Why New Photo ID Laws Mean Some Won t Vote NPR

Really, really, lol! Where do they get their money from then? Do they work? How do they pay their rent? They don't have electricity? Ummmmmmm, when there was a draft, are you telling us they tried to avoid it? Of course, they never had any children did they, and their children don't have a birth certificate either, because if they did, they would be listed as the parents; or are you saying they disowned them?

Never been to a hospital? If so, who did they bill? Thought you had to give your SS number. Keep their money in a mattress do they? Oh wait, they don't have any money, and of course someone with no money isn't going to take free stuff are they; which means you have to prove who you are, lol.

Again, it is laughable! But here, how about this...............any African American over 65 years old that has no ID gets to vote, but only 1 day before the election, or the day of the election, but has to leave their thumbprint on file with indelible ink that will last on their thumb for 3 days, showing they voted.

Problem solved. They did it in Iraq, so why not here. Hell, they can have my thumbprint too if it makes them happy!

African Americans need to realize that NOBODY is trying to take their vote from them, all that is being done is denying people who vote ILLEGALLY from casting a ballot that might cancel out an African Americans vote. Of course, you lefties can't stand it being put that way, because when it is, it just shows how phoney baloney you guys really are.

 

[Care4all]

The left needs illegal votes to win in many, many cases. The thing that amazes me is.................I am a independent, and I do not want an illegal vote cast to cancel mine out. Why does the left? For all we know, were no illegal votes cast, GW might have lost to Al Gore in Florida.

And all this African American racism is nonsense with the ID. Are we to believe that where they rent never checked them out? If they own property, the tax man does not know who to bill? If they receive subsidies, the government has no idea who they are giving it to?

The argument is sooooo weak, it is laughable, yet they try and play it off with a straight face.

hmmm, you don't want 1 illegal voter to cancel out your 1 vote, YET YOU WANT to cancel out THOUSANDS of legal voters vote. How awesome of you....

You made the point, there are tens of thousands of citizens that live and have lived in this Nation their entire lives, renting, owning property, voting, paying taxes and ALL those things listed, WITHOUT a government issued PHOTO ID..... most anyone who doesn't drive, has lived their entire lives without government issued photo id's....why do you live in this BUBBLE of luxury, and pretend like those citizens outside of the bubble don't exist? that is pure and willful, ignorance...

Trying to punish citizens by disenfranchising THEM, when THEY are NOT your illegal alien committing the crime, IS A CRIME ITSELF...perpetrated by the right wing.

On top of that, ILLEGALS HAVE GVT ISSUED PHOTO ID'S....they, the very ones you SAY you want to stop, ARE the ones with driver's licenses....

the illegals that have registered to vote, should be removed from the voter rolls DURING the Registration process when each State vets those registering to vote. there is a Nationwide federal system that ALL STATES have access to, to verify citizenship of any person applying, they use this system now for Welfare programs that Illegals can not get under the Law....and many other gvt programs they can not legally benefit from....

You are disenfranchising CITIZENS who have lived their entire lives without this Govt issued photo id, (can you say, Papers Please, in your best Nazi voice?), all for something ILLEGALS may be doing when there are other, more proficient ways of removing illegals from the voter roll...for goodness sakes, THIS IS THE 21st century....we can vet and get rid of illegals off the voter rolls with a blink of an eye....

that's why your claim is phony, that's why this is all about CHEATING by YOU and your right wing faux outrage on this topic....you've bought in to the lies you've been told only because you don't want other citizens to vote, and that is VOTER FRAUD in the highest.

and dead people voting, should be REMOVED by the State, once the State has issued the person's death certificate

 

[hortysir]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

No, you're just ignorant of the law, the Constitution, and voting rights jurisprudence.

Whether a state issued photo ID is 'free' or not isn't the issue.

Many older African-Americans, for example, simply don't have the required documents needed to obtain such an ID. Born during segregation, many were not issued birth certificates, or those that were issued were not promulgated and not valid today.

Understand that these are voters who are currently registered to vote, voting for the last 30 or 40 years, participating in every election during that time. To compel these voters now to obtain a photo ID that comports with new state regulations manifest as an undue burden.

This in conjunction with the fact that there is no evidence of 'voter fraud' to the extent that the outcome of any election will be changed, there is simply no Constitutional justification to disallow citizens to exercise their fundamental right to vote because they cannot obtain a particular type of ID.

And these older African-Americans, don't fly? don't cash checks? don't have to show ID to use the EBT Cards?

And another ignorant rightist chimes in.

There is no Constitutional right to fly, cash a check, or receive public assistance – there is a Constitutional right to vote, however.

And, yet, you have zero problems with submitting me to a $5 background check when I buy a gun

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those opposed to voter registration requirements have had their concerns mitigated by SCOTUS. Those who want to block legitimate voters have been rebuked by SCOTUS (think PA).

Non issue.

 

[Care4all]

It's a 5 year jail sentence to impersonate another voter....it is very risky for anyone to impersonate another person at the poll. It is NOT where voter fraud is taking place for the most part, the risks are so so high of getting caught, what if the person you are trying to impersonate is standing behind you, what if the lady polling clerk checking you off the list is the person you are impersonating's mother, or father or brother or friend or cousin, then you have to know the person you are impersonating's home address, and you need to know what party they are registered under?

voter fraud takes place via absentee ballots, via inside jobs....

In person voter fraud is near nil, only the very very stupid would take the risk....

voting multiple times in different voting spots, can not be stopped by a gvt issued photo voter id, the person usually has an in state driver's license in both States that they live in....and perhaps vote in....one via absentee ballot and one in person is another way they can do it too....we are in the 21st century, systems could be tied in and a check on this could also be done by the States....

IT'S JUST ALL BULL CRUD that a govt issued photo ID will stop any kind of voter fraud and crime that could not be stopped by the States, doing their gosh darn job, and vetting each applicant, when they apply, through using Nation wide lists, that identify citizens vs. illegals, and through removing dead people from the voter rolls....

Then there is electronic voting with no audit trails, where the mass voting fraud can take place, and NOT A PEEP about it....

 

[Rexx Taylor]

This just in from NBC News: Hillary Clinton demands that all Sasquatches register to vote as Democrats. It is her belief that even Bigfoots are People Too !!!

 

[Nyvin]

African Americans need to realize that NOBODY is trying to take their vote from them, all that is being done is denying people who vote ILLEGALLY from casting a ballot that might cancel out an African Americans vote. Of course, you lefties can't stand it being put that way, because when it is, it just shows how phoney baloney you guys really are.

If there was an authentic effort to decrease voter fraud the GOP would target absentee ballots, registration methods, or polling station officials. They really don't much at all, because it doesn't suit their agenda.

Instead they go after the form of voter fraud that is probably one of the LEAST common, and MOST risky, and already EASIEST to catch: In person voter fraud. In person voter fraud is repeatedly shown to be very, very rare and not even remotely a significant problem.

The simple reason it's rare is because it's incredibly easy to get caught...all that needs to happen is the person you're impersonating already voted or has been declared dead in the registration and you land an enormous penalty and criminal record. It takes a die hard idiot that really thinks that 1 extra vote will make enough of a difference to risk years in prison for in person voter fraud to take place.

 

[hortysir]

My main reason for fo using on voter ID is because it annoys the ever living fuck out of the left.
Just the fact that it bugs you so much gives me more reason to think you have something to hide

 

[Muhammed]

It's the 21st century! Voter ID is not an undue burden.

In some places it may be.

What if someone has an arrest warrant on them because they owe an $80 fine?

They can't get an ID without risking arrest.

 

[Judicial review]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

No, you're just ignorant of the law, the Constitution, and voting rights jurisprudence.

Whether a state issued photo ID is 'free' or not isn't the issue.

Many older African-Americans, for example, simply don't have the required documents needed to obtain such an ID. Born during segregation, many were not issued birth certificates, or those that were issued were not promulgated and not valid today.

Understand that these are voters who are currently registered to vote, voting for the last 30 or 40 years, participating in every election during that time. To compel these voters now to obtain a photo ID that comports with new state regulations manifest as an undue burden.

This in conjunction with the fact that there is no evidence of 'voter fraud' to the extent that the outcome of any election will be changed, there is simply no Constitutional justification to disallow citizens to exercise their fundamental right to vote because they cannot obtain a particular type of ID.

And these older African-Americans, don't fly? don't cash checks? don't have to show ID to use the EBT Cards?

And another ignorant rightist chimes in.

There is no Constitutional right to fly, cash a check, or receive public assistance – there is a Constitutional right to vote, however.

And, yet, you have zero problems with submitting me to a $5 background check when I buy a gun

What background check? Didn't apply to me. Then again go downtown look in someones dumpster and you should have a 50% chance at finding one.

 

[Care4all]

My main reason for fo using on voter ID is because it annoys the ever living fuck out of the left.
Just the fact that it bugs you so much gives me more reason to think you have something to hide

this is why I speak up for them...

Proverbs 31:8-9

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

 

[paddymurphy]

Does anyone sincerely believe that encouraging more ignorant and/or disinterested people to vote is a good idea? I think that someone who can't be bothered to obtain a free photo I.D. isn't intelligent or engaged enough to cast a meaningful vote. I also think that, in federal elections, people should able to identify the President and Vice President or both of their Senators. Am I just being a Big Meany?

No, you're just ignorant of the law, the Constitution, and voting rights jurisprudence.

Whether a state issued photo ID is 'free' or not isn't the issue.

Many older African-Americans, for example, simply don't have the required documents needed to obtain such an ID. Born during segregation, many were not issued birth certificates, or those that were issued were not promulgated and not valid today.

Understand that these are voters who are currently registered to vote, voting for the last 30 or 40 years, participating in every election during that time. To compel these voters now to obtain a photo ID that comports with new state regulations manifest as an undue burden.

This in conjunction with the fact that there is no evidence of 'voter fraud' to the extent that the outcome of any election will be changed, there is simply no Constitutional justification to disallow citizens to exercise their fundamental right to vote because they cannot obtain a particular type of ID.

And these older African-Americans, don't fly? don't cash checks? don't have to show ID to use the EBT Cards?

No to all three. Fly? Really?

 

[imawhosure]

It's a 5 year jail sentence to impersonate another voter....it is very risky for anyone to impersonate another person at the poll. It is NOT where voter fraud is taking place for the most part, the risks are so so high of getting caught, what if the person you are trying to impersonate is standing behind you, what if the lady polling clerk checking you off the list is the person you are impersonating's mother, or father or brother or friend or cousin, then you have to know the person you are impersonating's home address, and you need to know what party they are registered under?

voter fraud takes place via absentee ballots, via inside jobs....

In person voter fraud is near nil, only the very very stupid would take the risk....

voting multiple times in different voting spots, can not be stopped by a gvt issued photo voter id, the person usually has an in state driver's license in both States that they live in....and perhaps vote in....one via absentee ballot and one in person is another way they can do it too....we are in the 21st century, systems could be tied in and a check on this could also be done by the States....

IT'S JUST ALL BULL CRUD that a govt issued photo ID will stop any kind of voter fraud and crime that could not be stopped by the States, doing their gosh darn job, and vetting each applicant, when they apply, through using Nation wide lists, that identify citizens vs. illegals, and through removing dead people from the voter rolls....

Then there is electronic voting with no audit trails, where the mass voting fraud can take place, and NOT A PEEP about it....

Good try, but fail! How do you catch a voter fraud? You try to put forth it doesn't happen, how can you prove a negative? Are you willing to cancel out someones vote who is legal?

So let me get this straight, you are willing to cancel out the 20% of African American vote that votes conservative? OK, I got it, tell them they do not count, lol!

 

[Nyvin]

It's a 5 year jail sentence to impersonate another voter....it is very risky for anyone to impersonate another person at the poll. It is NOT where voter fraud is taking place for the most part, the risks are so so high of getting caught, what if the person you are trying to impersonate is standing behind you, what if the lady polling clerk checking you off the list is the person you are impersonating's mother, or father or brother or friend or cousin, then you have to know the person you are impersonating's home address, and you need to know what party they are registered under?

voter fraud takes place via absentee ballots, via inside jobs....

In person voter fraud is near nil, only the very very stupid would take the risk....

voting multiple times in different voting spots, can not be stopped by a gvt issued photo voter id, the person usually has an in state driver's license in both States that they live in....and perhaps vote in....one via absentee ballot and one in person is another way they can do it too....we are in the 21st century, systems could be tied in and a check on this could also be done by the States....

IT'S JUST ALL BULL CRUD that a govt issued photo ID will stop any kind of voter fraud and crime that could not be stopped by the States, doing their gosh darn job, and vetting each applicant, when they apply, through using Nation wide lists, that identify citizens vs. illegals, and through removing dead people from the voter rolls....

Then there is electronic voting with no audit trails, where the mass voting fraud can take place, and NOT A PEEP about it....

Good try, but fail! How do you catch a voter fraud? You try to put forth it doesn't happen, how can you prove a negative?

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

There are statistical ways to show how often in person voter fraud happens. No one says it "doesn't happen"....it does, in extremely small numbers. The overall benefits of Voter ID laws from a non-partisan point of view are nearly nonexistent.

There are studies about how often it happens, usually the numbers are in the single digits over the course of YEARS.

 

[presonorek]

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

(Seasoned with sarcasm)

I think North Carolina had 726 cases of all of these instances combined in the 2012 election. Governor Mccrory only won by 700 votes. That's why we have Voter ID laws now. We don't want criminals who commit voter fraud swaying our elections.

It has nothing to do with black people aka democrats.

The literacy tests of the 1950's had nothing to do with black people either. It was about literacy. You guys do realize that 1950 wasn't that long ago. Some of the children growing up in the 1950's are serving in the North Carolina legislature right now. Things are changing but that racist generation isn't dead yet.

I used to be an active Republican. It is comical to listen to older people constantly say, "I'm not racist but". They have genuinely convinced themselves that they are not racist. It's funny because it isn't as violent as it was 60 years ago but race relations in the United States still aren't the best that they could be. I think we will be doing really good with this issue in 20 years or so.

 

[hortysir]

My main reason for fo using on voter ID is because it annoys the ever living fuck out of the left.
Just the fact that it bugs you so much gives me more reason to think you have something to hide

this is why I speak up for them...

Proverbs 31:8-9

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

1....That's one of my favorite verses. I use it when others are saying that the Bible tells us not to judge

And

2....Why did you have to go and reply to a post of mine with so much profanity?
I promised you, years ago, that I wouldn't use that language at you

 

[presonorek]

1....That's one of my favorite verses. I use it when others are saying that the Bible tells us not to judge

There is no verse in the Bible that tells us not to judge.

Those perverts need to read the verse that they are quoting. Judge not that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1.

I can read it 150 times and it never says that you shouldn't judge. It's one of those pet peeves of mine when the Bible is misrepresented so poorly and so widespread.

 

[Care4all]

It's a 5 year jail sentence to impersonate another voter....it is very risky for anyone to impersonate another person at the poll. It is NOT where voter fraud is taking place for the most part, the risks are so so high of getting caught, what if the person you are trying to impersonate is standing behind you, what if the lady polling clerk checking you off the list is the person you are impersonating's mother, or father or brother or friend or cousin, then you have to know the person you are impersonating's home address, and you need to know what party they are registered under?

voter fraud takes place via absentee ballots, via inside jobs....

In person voter fraud is near nil, only the very very stupid would take the risk....

voting multiple times in different voting spots, can not be stopped by a gvt issued photo voter id, the person usually has an in state driver's license in both States that they live in....and perhaps vote in....one via absentee ballot and one in person is another way they can do it too....we are in the 21st century, systems could be tied in and a check on this could also be done by the States....

IT'S JUST ALL BULL CRUD that a govt issued photo ID will stop any kind of voter fraud and crime that could not be stopped by the States, doing their gosh darn job, and vetting each applicant, when they apply, through using Nation wide lists, that identify citizens vs. illegals, and through removing dead people from the voter rolls....

Then there is electronic voting with no audit trails, where the mass voting fraud can take place, and NOT A PEEP about it....

Good try, but fail! How do you catch a voter fraud? You try to put forth it doesn't happen, how can you prove a negative? Are you willing to cancel out someones vote who is legal?

So let me get this straight, you are willing to cancel out the 20% of African American vote that votes conservative? OK, I got it, tell them they do not count, lol!

Huh?
What?

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, could you please explain what you mean?

 

[Care4all]

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

(Seasoned with sarcasm)

I think North Carolina had 726 cases of all of these instances combined in the 2012 election. Governor Mccrory only won by 700 votes. That's why we have Voter ID laws now. We don't want criminals who commit voter fraud swaying our elections.

It has nothing to do with black people aka democrats.

The literacy tests of the 1950's had nothing to do with black people either. It was about literacy. You guys do realize that 1950 wasn't that long ago. Some of the children growing up in the 1950's are serving in the North Carolina legislature right now. Things are changing but that racist generation isn't dead yet.

I used to be an active Republican. It is comical to listen to older people constantly say, "I'm not racist but". They have genuinely convinced themselves that they are not racist. It's funny because it isn't as violent as it was 60 years ago but race relations in the United States still aren't the best that they could be. I think we will be doing really good with this issue in 20 years or so.

Link to North Carolina having 726 of "these" cases, please.

 

[Care4all]

How many people's names show up twice?

How many confirmed dead people have voted?

How many people are told they already voted but haven't?

(Seasoned with sarcasm)

I think North Carolina had 726 cases of all of these instances combined in the 2012 election. Governor Mccrory only won by 700 votes. That's why we have Voter ID laws now. We don't want criminals who commit voter fraud swaying our elections.

It has nothing to do with black people aka democrats.

The literacy tests of the 1950's had nothing to do with black people either. It was about literacy. You guys do realize that 1950 wasn't that long ago. Some of the children growing up in the 1950's are serving in the North Carolina legislature right now. Things are changing but that racist generation isn't dead yet.

I used to be an active Republican. It is comical to listen to older people constantly say, "I'm not racist but". They have genuinely convinced themselves that they are not racist. It's funny because it isn't as violent as it was 60 years ago but race relations in the United States still aren't the best that they could be. I think we will be doing really good with this issue in 20 years or so.

I did a google on it and you have been misinformed.

And, NONE of the cases touted initially could have or would have, been stopped by a gvt issued Photo ID. NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NIENTE, ZILCH.

North Carolina Republicans last year passed a sweeping and restrictive voting law, which is currently being challenged by the U.S. Justice Department. The law’s voter ID provision would likely have done nothing to stop the double voting being alleged here, but solid evidence of illegal voting could still bolster the state’s case that the measure is justified. It could also make it easier for the state to remove from the rolls voters who are thought to be registered in two states—raising concerns that legitimate voters could wrongly be purged.

But Republicans and conservative media, predictably, aren’t waiting for the results of the probe. Instead, they’re already shouting voter fraud. “N.C. Board of Elections audit finds up to 35,750 instances of ‘double voting’ (voter fraud) in the 2012 election,” tweeted Republican National Committee spokesman Sean Spicer Wednesday. A headline at National Review made the same claim. In a statement, state Sen. Thom Tillis, the frontrunner for the GOP Senate nomination, pointed to “alarming evidence of voter error [and] fraud.”

The notion that the board found over 35,000 cases of voter fraud—or even one case—is flatly false. With the investigation not yet even underway, the board, headed by Kim Strach, hasn’t come close to concluding that any specific case involved double voting.* And there are very good reasons why it’s held off.

First, it helps to understand statistics. The political scientist Michael McDonald and election law scholar Justin Levitt have shown in a detailed statistical study that the number of people who share a name and birthdate is much higher than it might at first appear. (Just for fun, take the RNC’s Spicer. Though his name is less common than many, online records show 20 different Sean Spicers who were born on September 23rd, his birthday.) That statistical reality, McDonald and Levitt conclude, has big implications for how to treat potential cases of illegal voting.

“I would be very interested indeed in how many of the 35K alleged double voters are the results of mistakes or mistaken assumptions,” Levitt wrote Wednesday in an email to a group of election lawyers. “I’m going to bet on the vast majority evaporating upon closer scrutiny.”

But that still leaves those 765 cases—not as eye-popping a number as 35,000, but still significant—in which the last four digits of a voter’s Social Security number also matched that of someone who voted in another state. Statistically, the chances of a false positive are much, much smaller under this scenario.

Even here, though, there are plenty of explanations beyond deliberate fraud. Election experts point to the high frequency of data errors by poll-workers, a possibility that doubles, of course, when matching voters across two states.

Consider the recent experience of North Carolina’s southern neighbor. Last year, South Carolina’s DMV used Social Security matches to help find more than 900 people listed as dead who had voted in recent years, setting off a spate of hand-wringing about fraud. Attorney General Alan Wilson, a Republican, used the findings to argue for the state’s strict voter ID law—which was later softened after the Justice Department objected. But state law enforcement ultimately found not a single person who deliberately cast a ballot in the name of a dead person.

Nearly half the cases were the result of clerical errors by poll-workers. Others were attributed to DMV officials finding that Social Security numbers matched but not making sure that names did, among several problems. (About 45,370 people have been assigned by the Social Security Administration to each four-digit combination of numbers.)

Voter fraud in North Carolina Not so fast MSNBC

It's all bull crud that the ID will stop voter fraud, it simply won't, but it will disenfranchise tens of thousands of citizens from their vote, so what precisely is your goal?