What is wrong with some people

[bigrebnc1775]

Average Democrat

She's clueless.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

 

[ConHog]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

Now hold on, you just accused them of a crime, and your boy Obama has extracted a penalty from them for said crime sans any sort of trial. is THAT the American way?

and don't come back with "you don't think they should pay for anything" because I certainly do, I just think that they should be you know given a trial to determine how much they owe. Either that or call the $20B a plea bargain and drop the BS about an investigation.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Thank you

For what? Pointing out the obvious, that insurance is private and siphoning off at least 15% of the health care dollars spent in this country for insurance executive bonuses?

Well.... I reckon it does need to be pointed out. Why would anyone cheer for 15% higher costs? Just doesn't make any sense.....

I'll thank you too! Thank you!

What gives YOU the right to decide what companies should do with THEIR profits? Do you know that health care insurance as an industry makes a 3.4% profit? That's pretty freaking low.

Health Insurance Industry's Profit Margins Rank #86 -- Seeking Alpha


Demonizing health care insurance companies does NOTHING to address the cost of health care. Now if the cost of say heart surgery dropped down to say $50K instead of $150K and the insurance companies were still expecting the same premiums you would have a legitimate complaint, BUT this bill doesn't do a fucking thing to try actually lower costs.

Why are you lefties so quick to demonize private industry without offering a single solution of your own? We're seeing the EXACT same thing with the oil spill now.

I don't care what any given company does with their profits, I just don't want the reason me and a couple of million of my fellow Americans use for not assembling a public bureaucracy and 'self insuring' to be that it's illegal. Just let me buy in to Medicare - hell, I'm dumping money into private insurance companies for most of my life and I rarely need a doctor at this age - by the time I'll make any claims for health care, I'll be on Medicare, depending on the taxpayer and feeling guilty and over charged because all the money I 'squirreled away' for my old age health care is tied up in some insurance executives Ferrari.

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

The loss of freedom about which we should morn is the loss of freedom to self insure with our neighbors by forming 'groups'. The only thing more efficient would be a national group.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Thank you

For what? Pointing out the obvious, that insurance is private and siphoning off at least 15% of the health care dollars spent in this country for insurance executive bonuses?

Well.... I reckon it does need to be pointed out. Why would anyone cheer for 15% higher costs? Just doesn't make any sense.....

I'll thank you too! Thank you!

What is with you leftist? You are complaining about what a company does with it's money after you have given your money to them was services rendered. Who in the hell do you think you are? How would you like it if your boss said something about the way you spend your pay check, and threaten to fire you over it?

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Are you insane? Proven to cost who less? Let's actually look at this.

First of Social Security has nothing to do with health care, so let's remove them from the conversation.

Now let's talk Medicare and Medicaid. Both programs are so far in the red that they can't even see straight, who will eventually have to pick up that tab? Oh yeah you and I, or more precisely our children................


It is just a simple function of math to see that if COST is our only concern then putting the government in charge of ANYTHING is a bad idea. So that argument is invalidated.

Social Security is the largest 'Insurance' organization in history so it is VERY relevant to the conversation. Medicare IS a public option, reserved for the folks that the private insurance companies don't want: folks over 65 and folks who are disabled - win win for the insurance lobby.

Social Security runs at 97% to 98% efficiency, Medicare runs right at 97%. The most efficient private insurance bureaucracies run at 75% to 80% efficiency.

The choice is yours..... oh yeah, sorry about that - the choice is NOT yours because the insurance lobby was quite successful in killing off a true 'Public Option'.

You lose! (As do I and everyone else who buys insurance because it's a good health care decision, considering the potential in our lives for a health-care expenditure beyond our savings accounts.)

Social Security is no more a health care provider than they are an auto insurance provider.

But just for shits and giggles post a link showing that ANY government organization runs at anywhere close to a 90% efficiency, I certainly don't believe it.

A public option needed to be killed off because despite your please of a 98% efficiency rating mediaire is in the red insuring just a small percentage of Americans.

There's a link in a previous post of mine on the subject... here ya go:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-i-support-a-public-option-7.html#post2038587​

 

[ConHog]

For what? Pointing out the obvious, that insurance is private and siphoning off at least 15% of the health care dollars spent in this country for insurance executive bonuses?

Well.... I reckon it does need to be pointed out. Why would anyone cheer for 15% higher costs? Just doesn't make any sense.....

I'll thank you too! Thank you!

What is with you leftist? You are complaining about what a company does with it's money after you have given your money to them was services rendered. Who in the hell do you think you are? How would you like it if your boss said something about the way you spend your pay check, and threaten to fire you over it?

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

Ok, I would certainly have no problem with the government reforming the way insurance companies attempt to wiggle their way out of paying legitimate claims. That's a far cry from the bill we got though.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Social Security is the largest 'Insurance' organization in history so it is VERY relevant to the conversation. Medicare IS a public option, reserved for the folks that the private insurance companies don't want: folks over 65 and folks who are disabled - win win for the insurance lobby.

Social Security runs at 97% to 98% efficiency, Medicare runs right at 97%. The most efficient private insurance bureaucracies run at 75% to 80% efficiency.

The choice is yours..... oh yeah, sorry about that - the choice is NOT yours because the insurance lobby was quite successful in killing off a true 'Public Option'.

You lose! (As do I and everyone else who buys insurance because it's a good health care decision, considering the potential in our lives for a health-care expenditure beyond our savings accounts.)

Would you care to show a source to your claim that social security is the largest Insuranse organization and the rest of your claimns Give a source .

Now you complain about the insureance company' spending their money anyway they choose. Where is your out rage when the Government is spending money that isn't theirs? Now which is crazy?
Insureance company spending money that is their you complain

The Government wasteful spending (slush funds payoffs) of money which isn't theirs and you say nothing. And you want them to run your healthcare package.

When I see stories about $400 hammers and toilets that cost in the thousands, I'm just as outraged as the next guy. We're talking raw cost of the bureaucracy we hire to track our health care premiums and pay claims.

I assert that any group, large or small that spends an extra 15% to 25% than they have to for the services of a necessary bureaucracy are chumps.

I further assert that any nation who allows private corporations to insure only younger, healthy workers, while ritualistically tossing EVERYONE on to the public rolls of Medicare as soon as they hit 65 and begin needing routine care are chumps.

I'll go on to state that any country willing to pay its bureaucrats bonuses in the tens of millions per year and more to run a bureaucracy that simply tracks premiums collected and claims paid are chumps.

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Yeah right, like the public option would be funded solely by those who choose to enroll?

YES. THAT'S THE POINT. what a moron. you don't know ANYTHING about this, do you? and yet, you keep talking about it and thinking your opinion isn't worthless.

The point of the public option was to allow for citizens to pay into it, without drawing on tax dollars at all. As an option. Thus the term "public OPTION". How is it you think private insurance companies work now? They just wave a magic wand and somehow you only need to worry about a co-pay? NO! They take in money from a group of people, and use it to pay for their healthcare, EXACTLY like the public option was designed to do.

It's the same thing, except the government isn't purposely looking to deny every claim, drop people whenever it's convenient, and generally work against its own patrons. Furthermore, when it comes to medical care, the government runs on a lot less administrative overhead in a much more efficient manner than private insurance companies.

Please, go read a little before hitting the reply button and looking like a complete moron yet again.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Social Security is the largest 'Insurance' organization in history so it is VERY relevant to the conversation. Medicare IS a public option, reserved for the folks that the private insurance companies don't want: folks over 65 and folks who are disabled - win win for the insurance lobby.

Social Security runs at 97% to 98% efficiency, Medicare runs right at 97%. The most efficient private insurance bureaucracies run at 75% to 80% efficiency.

The choice is yours..... oh yeah, sorry about that - the choice is NOT yours because the insurance lobby was quite successful in killing off a true 'Public Option'.

You lose! (As do I and everyone else who buys insurance because it's a good health care decision, considering the potential in our lives for a health-care expenditure beyond our savings accounts.)

Would you care to show a source to your claim that social security is the largest Insuranse organization and the rest of your claimns Give a source .

Now you complain about the insureance company' spending their money anyway they choose. Where is your out rage when the Government is spending money that isn't theirs? Now which is crazy?
Insureance company spending money that is their you complain

The Government wasteful spending (slush funds payoffs) of money which isn't theirs and you say nothing. And you want them to run your healthcare package.

No, he's convinced me. I have changed my mind. There SHOULD be a government ran health care insurance option. BUT it should be an option and it should absolutely be written in that stone that this program can not access ANY government funds that they themselves did not collect. In other words they must run in in the black or go out of business. I'd give it 3 years top before they fold.

Just let every legal resident buy into Medicare at a price based on their age - the younger you are when you start, the lower the cost.

The rest of what you said makes sense - no tax money, it has to be a self perpetuating fund and private insurance would still have a place in the market place for folks who want more insurance for what ever reason and folks who want coverage for non-Medicare covered procedures like boob-jobs, abortions and penile implants.

Ya pay in to one fund most of your working life and that fund pays the bulk of your medical bills when you start making claims in your 'golden years'.

This shouldn't be rocket science.

 

[ConHog]

Yeah right, like the public option would be funded solely by those who choose to enroll?

YES. THAT'S THE POINT. what a moron. you don't know ANYTHING about this, do you? and yet, you keep talking about it and thinking your opinion isn't worthless.

The point of the public option was to allow for citizens to pay into it, without drawing on tax dollars at all. As an option. Thus the term "public OPTION". How is it you think private insurance companies work now? They just wave a magic wand and somehow you only need to worry about a co-pay? NO! They take in money from a group of people, and use it to pay for their healthcare, EXACTLY like the public option was designed to do.

It's the same thing, except the government isn't purposely looking to deny every claim, drop people whenever it's convenient, and generally work against its own patrons. Furthermore, when it comes to medical care, the government runs on a lot less administrative overhead in a much more efficient manner than private insurance companies.

Please, go read a little before hitting the reply button and looking like a complete moron yet again.

I'm a complete moron? What's the difference you say? How about this. IF they have a public option and some people do indeed sign up how long before our crooked ass government does the same thing they always do and they kick that money into the general fund and pretty soon tax dollars from people who did NOT choose to sign up for the public option are beings used to subsidize the health care costs of those who did? You're naive as hell if you don't think that is EXACTLY how it would happen. Look at Social Security for proof.

You really do think Americans are stupid , don't you? Well, they are, but not all of us are.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

Now hold on, you just accused them of a crime, and your boy Obama has extracted a penalty from them for said crime sans any sort of trial. is THAT the American way?

and don't come back with "you don't think they should pay for anything" because I certainly do, I just think that they should be you know given a trial to determine how much they owe. Either that or call the $20B a plea bargain and drop the BS about an investigation.

More drive-by labeling. That shit can come from any direction.

 

[oreo]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

YES--they want a handout--but people forget that the Government doesn't give the handout's--it's their family--friends--next door neighbors--employers that give them out. The GOVERNMENT doesn't earn money--they just TAKE IT from others.

But the problem is as quoted in 1931 is:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
5. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. Adrian Rogers, 1931

 

[Old Rocks]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

Now hold on, you just accused them of a crime, and your boy Obama has extracted a penalty from them for said crime sans any sort of trial. is THAT the American way?

and don't come back with "you don't think they should pay for anything" because I certainly do, I just think that they should be you know given a trial to determine how much they owe. Either that or call the $20B a plea bargain and drop the BS about an investigation.

They can put up the 20 billion, and make it look like the goodness of their heart, or we can seize all of their US assets in lieu of that. And after maybe a year, the present Supreme Court says you can't do that. So we turn over the assets to whomever is handling BP's bankruptcy.

You screw our nation, you pay. Unless you have a Republican President. Then, after twenty years of litigation, you pay pennies on the dollar to those still living.

I like the President's way far better, and so do most American's.

 

[ConHog]

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

Now hold on, you just accused them of a crime, and your boy Obama has extracted a penalty from them for said crime sans any sort of trial. is THAT the American way?

and don't come back with "you don't think they should pay for anything" because I certainly do, I just think that they should be you know given a trial to determine how much they owe. Either that or call the $20B a plea bargain and drop the BS about an investigation.

They can put up the 20 billion, and make it look like the goodness of their heart, or we can seize all of their US assets in lieu of that. And after maybe a year, the present Supreme Court says you can't do that. So we turn over the assets to whomever is handling BP's bankruptcy.

You screw our nation, you pay. Unless you have a Republican President. Then, after twenty years of litigation, you pay pennies on the dollar to those still living.

I like the President's way far better, and so do most American's.

So now ignoring the CON is ok as long as most Americans are OK with it? Are you ok with the Patriot Act, because IMO it violates certain segments of the CON but most Americans seem to be OK with that?

 

[AVG-JOE]

What is with you leftist? You are complaining about what a company does with it's money after you have given your money to them was services rendered. Who in the hell do you think you are? How would you like it if your boss said something about the way you spend your pay check, and threaten to fire you over it?

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

Ok, I would certainly have no problem with the government reforming the way insurance companies attempt to wiggle their way out of paying legitimate claims. That's a far cry from the bill we got though.

Granted. But do you see the historical significance of getting something through? Now the nit picking can begin in earnest. People are talking about what they expect and what they can afford.

Ass-u-me-ing nobody uses a nuke, 200 years from now our children will pretty much have a single payer system that pays for care while collecting based on age when you choose to enroll. It will pay doctors and technicians as well paid staff instead of by the procedure or job. Look at how much better we get along now than 200 years ago - Imagine what 200 years could bring.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw]YouTube - Imagine[/ame]

 

[ConHog]

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

Ok, I would certainly have no problem with the government reforming the way insurance companies attempt to wiggle their way out of paying legitimate claims. That's a far cry from the bill we got though.

Granted. But do you see the historical significance of getting something through? Now the nit picking can begin in earnest. People are talking about what they expect and what they can afford.

Ass-u-me-ing nobody uses a nuke, 200 years from now our children will pretty much have a single payer system that pays for care while collecting based on age when you choose to enroll. It will pay doctors and technicians as well paid staff instead of by the procedure or job. Look at how much better we get along now than 200 years ago - Imagine what 200 years could bring.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw]YouTube - Imagine[/ame]

No, because I don't trust government and I certainly don't want to give them ultimate power and hope that will do the right thing.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Ok, I would certainly have no problem with the government reforming the way insurance companies attempt to wiggle their way out of paying legitimate claims. That's a far cry from the bill we got though.

Granted. But do you see the historical significance of getting something through? Now the nit picking can begin in earnest. People are talking about what they expect and what they can afford.

Ass-u-me-ing nobody uses a nuke, 200 years from now our children will pretty much have a single payer system that pays for care while collecting based on age when you choose to enroll. It will pay doctors and technicians as well paid staff instead of by the procedure or job. Look at how much better we get along now than 200 years ago - Imagine what 200 years could bring.

No, because I don't trust government and I certainly don't want to give them ultimate power and hope that will do the right thing.

I don't trust them either. Sold out to professional lobbyists, pretty much 100% of politicians to some degree are, IMHO. The problem is not that we have a health care issue, the root problem is that we do not feel represented. Keep speaking your mind, CH. The best thing we can all keep doing is learn shit from Shinola and tell others what we discover along the way.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I'm a complete moron? What's the difference you say? How about this. IF they have a public option and some people do indeed sign up how long before our crooked ass government does the same thing they always do and they kick that money into the general fund and pretty soon tax dollars from people who did NOT choose to sign up for the public option are beings used to subsidize the health care costs of those who did? You're naive as hell if you don't think that is EXACTLY how it would happen. Look at Social Security for proof.

You really do think Americans are stupid , don't you? Well, they are, but not all of us are.

Ah I see. So your complaint ISN'T against the actual public option that was proposed, which you knew absolutely nothing about but kept making dumb guesses on anyway, but rather the POSSIBILITY that the intended policy, which was good, COULD maybe possibly at some point maybe maybe turn to the dark side.

So to recap: no problem with the actual policy, just the conspiracy theory that you made up in your own head and convinced yourself was true. Right.

When you'd like to return back to reality, let me know.

 

[ConHog]

I'm a complete moron? What's the difference you say? How about this. IF they have a public option and some people do indeed sign up how long before our crooked ass government does the same thing they always do and they kick that money into the general fund and pretty soon tax dollars from people who did NOT choose to sign up for the public option are beings used to subsidize the health care costs of those who did? You're naive as hell if you don't think that is EXACTLY how it would happen. Look at Social Security for proof.

You really do think Americans are stupid , don't you? Well, they are, but not all of us are.

Ah I see. So your complaint ISN'T against the actual public option that was proposed, which you knew absolutely nothing about but kept making dumb guesses on anyway, but rather the POSSIBILITY that the intended policy, which was good, COULD maybe possibly at some point maybe maybe turn to the dark side.

So to recap: no problem with the actual policy, just the conspiracy theory that you made up in your own head and convinced yourself was true. Right.

When you'd like to return back to reality, let me know.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said..............

You're no better than the other idiots who either A) can't read or B) just read whatever they want into a situation.


This Bill was garbage. Look at the cost alone, they were completely dishonest about it. Look at the way they had to get it passed.................. No, I don't trust the bill AS IS, future plans for it scare the piss out of me.