What is wrong with some people

[bigrebnc1775]

What you said was "3.4% that is the profit margin of health insurance companies, it's not like they are raking in BILLIONS." You made an incorrectly low assessment of their absolute profit based on your assessment of the margin. Wow you even suck at back pedaling.

You said both were low. You stated they did not make billions. You were wrong.

It's not the first time you were wrong in this thread. It's not even the tenth time in this thread. It won't be the last. Just move on to your next moronic point so I can get back to shooting you down.

so what is the precentage of the profit margin that the insurence company's take in? I have heard it's 2 percent.

Careful,, you don't want to misstate anything, the loons will be all over you.

It's ok I am only asking a question. someone who disagrees with someone else should have the information to make the corrections.

 

[antagon]

Who cares how much they are making? This is the USA you're entitled to make how ever much you can.

Wow. I didn't expect you to change your stance so quickly. You went from "they're not making that much" to "they can make as much as they want" between two posts!

So let's recap: you have repeatedly not understood how the health insurance industry works. You have proven that you don't understand finances at all. You have shown yourself to be completely ignorant about the public option. You have fabricated large amounts of information on things you didn't understand. You concoct conspiracy theories of how policy will be abused and ignored in the future without any evidence to support it. You complain about the cost needed to fix health care, and then later say insurance companies should be able to add billions of dollars to the cost because they are "entitled".

I might as well be your pimp for the way I've been slapping you around this thread.

Something tells me you are the one that is missing something. Take a look at this
The public health insurance option is a proposed government-run health insurance agency which competes with other health insurance companies. Now please explain something to me. How can company's that rely on a profit to keep the busniess goinglike pay their employee's office space, electric bill, POhone and computer service compete against another company that does not have to maintain a profit? How can they compete against a company that can make it's own money?

Sounds like they may need to play fair. You do realize profit is extra money for the company, after all salaries have been paid, correct? The point was to straighten out the poor actions of the insurance companies. But, as someone else said, the public option isn't what came to be.

Man you libbies are dishonest. I said their profit MARGIN was low, I never said their PROFITS were low. and I NEVER said I care one way or the other. I pretty much have never bought a product based on the profit margin of the company who provided it.

And I'd rather see State Farm, or whomever make 10% a year profit than watch the government LOSE more money running a program that they have not shown one bit of evidence that they can run in budget.

you did say 'billions', playboy. shit was just more accurate than you thought.

 

[JBeukema]

Here in America no one has ever been denied Healthcare.

Even if they had no money?


So who payed for it?


Sounds pretty socialist to me, you fucking commie bastard american hating progressive liberal fasctist...

Now THAT is a drive-by label job to be proud of!

Two gold stars and a cookie for JB!

YAY!!


can i haz chocolate chip?

 

[JBeukema]

Daily Kos: Poll: Tea partiers fear socialism, but love Social Security and Medicare

Despite the fear that socialism is coming to America, 62% of tea party supporters also support Social Security and Medicare. In fact, nearly half of them either benefit from Social Security or Medicare or have somebody in their immediate family who does. And about one-third are directly beneficiaries at least one of the programs, compared to about one-fifth of the population at large.

 

[JBeukema]

Are you serious? So all those people who are investing the money to start the companies shouldn't earn a profit on their investment? By the way 3.4% that is the profit margin of health insurance companies, it's not like they are raking in BILLIONS.

THEY ARE RAKING IN BILLIONS YOU MORON.

that has to hurt

 

[editec]

Since HC companies make a percentage of their overall revenues as profits, they have no incentive to see to it that the cost of HC goes down.

Because if the cost of HC goes down, so do their profits.

Why people keep missing this, I surely do not know.

 

[antagon]

Since HC companies make a percentage of their overall revenues as profits, they have no incentive to see to it that the cost of HC goes down.

Because if the cost of HC goes down, so do their profits.

Why people keep missing this, I surely do not know.

could a marketized system place an incentive back into the equation by way of competition? this seems to go unnoticed, too.

i buy my own coverage now for the last 4 years. i'm not sure if people who pick menu options offered by their employers realize that when their employers select these options, just like private coverages, the companies have rigged the game to not ever compete directly with one another. it is literally apples to oranges to cherries. $550 deductible with $33 co-pay + free preventive care - $1422/year or $675 w/ $21 co-pay with a mandatory 'preventive care plus' premium of $180 - $1267/year.


the best part of the HC bill is that it defines what coverage is. it puts all the incentive in the market, coercing participation, and makes it so that you could choose a brand and a price and a hospital network (which is enough to consider) without the elusive coverage comparison problem.

like the rest of our economy, competition should regulate prices.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

Insurance should be a non-profit business. Like a credit union. There is no good reason, no good served, for anyone to make profits from a basic service like insurance.

Are you serious? So all those people who are investing the money to start the companies shouldn't earn a profit on their investment? By the way 3.4% that is the profit margin of health insurance companies, it's not like they are raking in BILLIONS.

And I could make the argument that the oil is more of a basic service than health care insurance, maybe we should nationalize the oil industry and get rid of profit there to.....

Where do credit unions get their money?

Kaiser Permanente, a major operator in healthcare, runs a not for profit healthcare plan business. How is that possible?

My own employer self insures up to a stop loss number at which it buys a stop loss policy. How does it manage to do that without profit-hungry investors?

And, yes we should nationalize our oil on federal lands. Right now we are selling our oil to drillers for 12 to 16 cents on the dollar, where it then goes into the open market. That is a lousy deal for us.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Something tells me you are the one that is missing something. Take a look at this
The public health insurance option is a proposed government-run health insurance agency which competes with other health insurance companies. Now please explain something to me. How can company's that rely on a profit to keep the busniess goinglike pay their employee's office space, electric bill, POhone and computer service compete against another company that does not have to maintain a profit? How can they compete against a company that can make it's own money?

Office space, electric, and other bills are not part of profits, they are before profits.

Profits are what you have left over after you've paid for everything.

A non-profit has zero left over, by definition. A for profit competing against a non profit simply has to be efficient enough to do everything the non-profit does and still have money left over.

 

[antagon]

Insurance should be a non-profit business. Like a credit union. There is no good reason, no good served, for anyone to make profits from a basic service like insurance.

Are you serious? So all those people who are investing the money to start the companies shouldn't earn a profit on their investment? By the way 3.4% that is the profit margin of health insurance companies, it's not like they are raking in BILLIONS.

And I could make the argument that the oil is more of a basic service than health care insurance, maybe we should nationalize the oil industry and get rid of profit there to.....

Where do credit unions get their money?

Kaiser Permanente, a major operator in healthcare, runs a not for profit healthcare plan business. How is that possible?

My own employer self insures up to a stop loss number at which it buys a stop loss policy. How does it manage to do that without profit-hungry investors?

And, yes we should nationalize our oil on federal lands. Right now we are selling our oil to drillers for 12 to 16 cents on the dollar, where it then goes into the open market. That is a lousy deal for us.

this is a lousy idea, nationalizing oil production.

 

[antagon]

Something tells me you are the one that is missing something. Take a look at this
The public health insurance option is a proposed government-run health insurance agency which competes with other health insurance companies. Now please explain something to me. How can company's that rely on a profit to keep the busniess goinglike pay their employee's office space, electric bill, POhone and computer service compete against another company that does not have to maintain a profit? How can they compete against a company that can make it's own money?

Office space, electric, and other bills are not part of profits, they are before profits.

Profits are what you have left over after you've paid for everything.

A non-profit has zero left over, by definition. A for profit competing against a non profit simply has to be efficient enough to do everything the non-profit does and still have money left over.

more on lousy ideas, that the government which is funded, in part, from a share of the competing agencies' gross profit via tax and tariff should endeavor to compete with these agencies is ridiculous. the government has, will and should stick to the medicare game and profits realized at the the public medical infrastructure level. they should either scrap the HMOs or support them, rather than undermining them with unfair competition.

the government is not a non-profit in the sense that the profits from their hypothetical insurer racket will be flush with cost. instead, public hospitals turn profits and pass the buck up the chain to other aspects of public funding. if real non-profits want to participate, and think they can compete, that's fine; the government is not a real non-profit in a strict enough sense, and could never constitute a fair competitor.

 

[Ericredscousin]

Socialism you call Medicare socialism? Then I'm a socialist becuase I support Medicare.

In 2002 I suffered a heart attack on the eve of December 23rd. I was rushed to the hospitial by ambulance, diagnosed and put into Intensive Care where I stayed for 6 days, I was moved to a post Cradiac Ward for 3 days and was transferred by Ambulance to the Trillium Health Care Centre in Mississauga where I had a stent put into an artery. The total cost for this entire event was slightly over 200.00 for a TV and Phone Rental in my semi-private rooms. I continue to take 3 prescription meds a day and see a Cardiologist twice per year. The cost is ZERO, NOTHING, NOT A DIME.

Do I believe in Socialized Medicine as Americans like to call it ? Damn right I do.

Not what I asked you
Would you want the government to say no more abortions?

Dude, the Government is us. We elect them, and then they are supposed to represent our wishes in Congress.
IF we as a society want abortion to be illegal, then the "Government" will pass laws that outlaw it's practice. Like it used to do.
And what does this have to do with your original post?

 

[antagon]

And what you just posted is nothing but liberal talking points and garbage. You are so hell bent to get in line for those freebies you can't see the train that is just about to run over you.

you're the one approaching retirement, hypocrite. i'll be paying for it; i already am. the argument that everyone who understands how the world works is looking for a handout is a joke. without resorting to such a standup routine, can you find an economy on the planet which doesn't fit the billing i laid out?

can you find any source which espouses the 'talking points' i composed above? just because you're a cut 'n' paste sheepster, doesnt mean everyone else is.

Don't bother I will not be retiring any time soon and I will not be using the money I put into SS I will get by.

and this just about sums it up. the far right presumes that their role in the economy is not also dependent on progressive initiatives. they think that the amount of investment and the purchasing power in our economy would be the same without a government committed to handling the pitfalls that the private sector wont.

instead, as a component of a capitalist society, social programs function in concert with private investment to optimize the returns. arguably, where capitalism employs currency to support commerce and the creation of wealth, the issuer is obliged to affect access to currency at a minimum. again, its an observation proven as simply as seeing which economies have risen to this obligation with the thanks of investors, and those third-world economies which haven't.

 

[antagon]

Something tells me you are the one that is missing something. Take a look at this
The public health insurance option is a proposed government-run health insurance agency which competes with other health insurance companies. Now please explain something to me. How can company's that rely on a profit to keep the busniess goinglike pay their employee's office space, electric bill, POhone and computer service compete against another company that does not have to maintain a profit? How can they compete against a company that can make it's own money?

while i dont understand why folks are debating the failed public option component in a bill which has been successfully enacted, i've got to agree with bigreb, the president, and the consensus of the legislature that such an option is not acceptable.

Since we have a healthcare law on the books the government now has a way of getting the public option in that law. Can you say that you trust the current people who create laws in D.C.? With all the backroom deals and bribes. The public option might as well be in the law right now.

no. i haven't got your robust penchant for paranoia. i don't see anything easy or easier about creating a public option now. it will always require an act of congress, just as before, and if this bill performs so poorly that such an option would be reconsidered, i doubt that the democrats behind it would be the ones in power to 'fix' the legislation in that way. i don't think that a lobby would ever line up behind a public option, anyhow - certainly not one to overshadow those behind this bill.

 

[JBeukema]

Something tells me you are the one that is missing something. Take a look at this
The public health insurance option is a proposed government-run health insurance agency which competes with other health insurance companies. Now please explain something to me. How can company's that rely on a profit to keep the busniess goinglike pay their employee's office space, electric bill, POhone and computer service compete against another company that does not have to maintain a profit? How can they compete against a company that can make it's own money?

Office space, electric, and other bills are not part of profits, they are before profits.

Profits are what you have left over after you've paid for everything.

-including paying the CEOs whatever money's left over in 'bonuses' after everything else is paid for

 

[AVG-JOE]

Even if they had no money?


So who payed for it?


Sounds pretty socialist to me, you fucking commie bastard american hating progressive liberal fasctist...

Now THAT is a drive-by label job to be proud of!

Two gold stars and a cookie for JB!

I am glad that you posted the whole replky. since I have that jackass on ignore. Does it make any sense that someone would call a person a liberal when they hate all liberals? Who in the hell is that POS? I HAVE BEEN CALLED MANY THINGS BUT NEVER HAVE A COMMUNIST OR LIBERAL.

I have. It's almost as painful as being called Dodo Head...... But not as painful as having to sit out recess for punching a Dodo-headed Dodo in the mouth for calling people Dodo Heads.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you serious? So all those people who are investing the money to start the companies shouldn't earn a profit on their investment? By the way 3.4% that is the profit margin of health insurance companies, it's not like they are raking in BILLIONS.

And I could make the argument that the oil is more of a basic service than health care insurance, maybe we should nationalize the oil industry and get rid of profit there to.....

Where do credit unions get their money?

Kaiser Permanente, a major operator in healthcare, runs a not for profit healthcare plan business. How is that possible?

My own employer self insures up to a stop loss number at which it buys a stop loss policy. How does it manage to do that without profit-hungry investors?

And, yes we should nationalize our oil on federal lands. Right now we are selling our oil to drillers for 12 to 16 cents on the dollar, where it then goes into the open market. That is a lousy deal for us.

this is a lousy idea, nationalizing oil production.

We could use private companies, but contract them to drill for OUR oil and deliver it to American refineries contracted to produce gasoline and other refined products to go directly to American needs, first to our military, then to the rest of the government, then sell the rest here in the US. I'm guessing we could get more than 16 cents on the dollar net return that way.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Something tells me you are the one that is missing something. Take a look at this
The public health insurance option is a proposed government-run health insurance agency which competes with other health insurance companies. Now please explain something to me. How can company's that rely on a profit to keep the busniess goinglike pay their employee's office space, electric bill, POhone and computer service compete against another company that does not have to maintain a profit? How can they compete against a company that can make it's own money?

Office space, electric, and other bills are not part of profits, they are before profits.

Profits are what you have left over after you've paid for everything.

A non-profit has zero left over, by definition. A for profit competing against a non profit simply has to be efficient enough to do everything the non-profit does and still have money left over.

more on lousy ideas, that the government which is funded, in part, from a share of the competing agencies' gross profit via tax and tariff should endeavor to compete with these agencies is ridiculous. the government has, will and should stick to the medicare game and profits realized at the the public medical infrastructure level. they should either scrap the HMOs or support them, rather than undermining them with unfair competition.

the government is not a non-profit in the sense that the profits from their hypothetical insurer racket will be flush with cost. instead, public hospitals turn profits and pass the buck up the chain to other aspects of public funding. if real non-profits want to participate, and think they can compete, that's fine; the government is not a real non-profit in a strict enough sense, and could never constitute a fair competitor.

The government public option plan I saw only involved the government in startup money, and had to thereafter sustain itself on premiums paid by those who chose the public option.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

while i dont understand why folks are debating the failed public option component in a bill which has been successfully enacted, i've got to agree with bigreb, the president, and the consensus of the legislature that such an option is not acceptable.

Since we have a healthcare law on the books the government now has a way of getting the public option in that law. Can you say that you trust the current people who create laws in D.C.? With all the backroom deals and bribes. The public option might as well be in the law right now.

no. i haven't got your robust penchant for paranoia. i don't see anything easy or easier about creating a public option now. it will always require an act of congress, just as before, and if this bill performs so poorly that such an option would be reconsidered, i doubt that the democrats behind it would be the ones in power to 'fix' the legislation in that way. i don't think that a lobby would ever line up behind a public option, anyhow - certainly not one to overshadow those behind this bill.

Do you honestly think that the government will not do this? With what has happen in the last two years are you that easily fooled to think that the current administration would not do it no matter what it takes?
In the healthcare law it says that if you do not have healthcare coverage you must go on the government plan or pay a fine. Your current healthcare provider will drop you because they will not be able to compete with the government because the government does not have to make money it doesn't even have to break even. So that is where the public option will be hidden.

 

[ConHog]

Office space, electric, and other bills are not part of profits, they are before profits.

Profits are what you have left over after you've paid for everything.

A non-profit has zero left over, by definition. A for profit competing against a non profit simply has to be efficient enough to do everything the non-profit does and still have money left over.

more on lousy ideas, that the government which is funded, in part, from a share of the competing agencies' gross profit via tax and tariff should endeavor to compete with these agencies is ridiculous. the government has, will and should stick to the medicare game and profits realized at the the public medical infrastructure level. they should either scrap the HMOs or support them, rather than undermining them with unfair competition.

the government is not a non-profit in the sense that the profits from their hypothetical insurer racket will be flush with cost. instead, public hospitals turn profits and pass the buck up the chain to other aspects of public funding. if real non-profits want to participate, and think they can compete, that's fine; the government is not a real non-profit in a strict enough sense, and could never constitute a fair competitor.

The government public option plan I saw only involved the government in startup money, and had to thereafter sustain itself on premiums paid by those who chose the public option.

Be honest, do you trust ANY politician to handle anything in a financially responsible way? You know that eventually this program would join the rest in the general fund and quickly be running billions id the red.