320 Years of History
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #61
People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe.
-- Andy Rooney
You may be right, but I don't think so. I did see a small bit of disagreement; however, even as there was some disagreement, none of it was based on an accurate information. Below I offer an example of what I mean...although in fairness, one need not be conservative or liberal to be aware of and point out the inaccuracies; however, nobody did so.
That nobody did so is the relevant observation as it pertains to the question I posed at the outset of this thread. It stands to reason that were "half" the population of potential contributors to the discussion not excluded, the errors in the application of economic theory may well have been pointed out.
Examples of inaccurate info and assumption that were not refuted:
I took a look at the first three pages of the "Donald Trump" thread's posts. What I found was a mildly substantive discussion about the impact of Mr. Trump's proposed tariff on imported goods, presumably with a focus on those imported from China. As part of that discussion, one member, in post #16, hypothesized that "likely what will happen is we will be forced to pay higher prices for everything we buy."
The Inaccuracy:
The fact of the matter is that a duty imposed on a given class of goods affects the equilibrium price of that class of goods, not "everything."
The discussion on pages 13 and 14 at the linked source show and explain quite clearly that the hypothesis presented in post 16 is not at all consistent with standard economic principles. Furthermore, the discussion on page 14 explains who will bear the brunt of the cost cost the tariff. The member wrote post #16 made no effort to demonstrate empirically whether the producer(s) of the given class of goods (those produced abroad, presumably in China) have a greater or lesser need to sell them to U.S. consumers than do U.S. consumers have need to buy them. Lastly, the member made only the unsupported claim that U.S. made goods are not cheaper, but provided zero in the way of an objective analysis/comparison showing whether they are. It is important to have demonstrated that claim to have been so because at best the point is disputed, and at worst there is credible evidence that the claim simply isn't accurate.
The same member also attempted to identify a flaw in another member's assumptions, this even as the assumption implicit in post #16 is that a significant share of goods offered for sale in the U.S. are imported from China. The fact of the matter is that a duty imposed on a given class of goods affects the equilibrium price of that class of goods, not "everything."
The discussion on pages 13 and 14 at the linked source show and explain quite clearly that the hypothesis presented in post 16 is not at all consistent with standard economic principles. Furthermore, the discussion on page 14 explains who will bear the brunt of the cost cost the tariff. The member wrote post #16 made no effort to demonstrate empirically whether the producer(s) of the given class of goods (those produced abroad, presumably in China) have a greater or lesser need to sell them to U.S. consumers than do U.S. consumers have need to buy them. Lastly, the member made only the unsupported claim that U.S. made goods are not cheaper, but provided zero in the way of an objective analysis/comparison showing whether they are. It is important to have demonstrated that claim to have been so because at best the point is disputed, and at worst there is credible evidence that the claim simply isn't accurate.
- Article providing thin support for the claim: How Much Extra Would You Pay for 'Made in the USA'? - DailyFinance -- Though the article shows some goods that are domestically made and pricier, it also notes that polled consumers prefer to pay the higher prices already charged for higher goods. That revelation suggests that it might not matter much going forward even if American made goods cost more seeing as it already doesn't matter.
- Article from Inc. magazine refuting the claim that American made goods cost more: 10 Reasons Why It's Cheaper to Buy From a U.S. Factory Than China Â
- Article from Bloomberg Business refuting the claim that American made goods cost more: China vs. the U.S.: It's Just as Cheap to Make Goods in the USA - Businessweek . This article is supported by a study by Boston Consulting Group.
The Inaccuracy:
The fact is that a little below 3% of the content we as American consumers buy comes from China. That this is so was shown in a study by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. The Bank wrote:
In another post, #13, a member stated his impression of the effect of the tariff is that it would lead to "bringing manufacturing back to U.S."The fact is that a little below 3% of the content we as American consumers buy comes from China. That this is so was shown in a study by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. The Bank wrote:
Goods and services from China accounted for only 2.7% of U.S. personal consumption expenditures in 2010, of which less than half reflected the actual costs of Chinese imports. The rest went to U.S. businesses and workers transporting, selling, and marketing goods carrying the “Made in China” label. Although the fraction is higher when the imported content of goods made in the United States is considered, Chinese imports still make up only a small share of total U.S. consumer spending.
One might attempt to refute the info from the Bank by saying, "How can it only be 2.7% when almost everything in Wal-Mart is made in China? The answer is quite simple according to Morgan Housel, "Wal-Mart’s $260 billion in U.S. revenue isn’t exactly reflective of America’s $14.5 trillion economy. Wal-Mart might sell a broad range of knickknacks, many of which are made in China, but the vast majority of what Americans spend their money on is not knickknacks."
The Inaccuracy:
In another post, #17, a member asserts that "democrats cry that wages have to meet those of the 1%." Well, maybe, but I have never seen anyone, Democrat or Republican, call for anything resembling such a boost in the wages of any large segment of the workforce. In the case of that claim, however, another member did express the same thought I had after reading it; that member essentially said, "say what?" Like him/her, I have no idea what post #17's writer was trying to say, but I do know the claim is inaccurate.- In light of, as shown above, only 2.7% of our content being actually made in China, just where does the member think the manufacturing actually occurs if not in U.S? Where is manufacturing supposed to come back from? 97%+ of it is already in U.S., so how exactly is that effect supposed to come to fruition? Wouldn't the manufacturing need to leave before it can return?
So as it pertains to this thread and positing a reason why conservatives want to have a discussion amongst themselves, I don't think anything non-conservatives might have to say is a relevant driver or cause for excluding them. Personally, I think the reason can be found by reading post 31 in that thread. I think that the main reason is to minimize or eliminate the nature and extent of outcry against hateful invective such as "[Mr. Trump] bitch slaps the MSM and scum bag minorities like the bullshit fag Latino groups."
In this situation, it doesn't matter if my kids agree with me or not. I always agree with myself. <grins & chuckles>
