What is school for?

[editec]

Once we have identified modern schooling as functioning as an authoritarian instrument of conformity and oppression, what is to be done?

We could Deschool America along the lines of Ivan Illich's model.

We could take the voucher model of the Republicans.

Personally I think must first recognize that local school boards are NOT qualified to oversee schools and that the system we have for funding schools is archaic and bound to give us wildly different outcomes from school district to school district.

Were I king, I think I might Federalize the whole damned system and impose a series of tests on the teaching staff to insure that:

1. They actually are qualified to teach their subjects

2. They know how to teach what they know

The other thing I would do is put EDUCATORS in charge of education and NOT make them responsible for any other duty including discipline, monitoring, lunch details, pep rallies and a whole host of other nonsense that we impose of them.

We don't ask our doctors to sweep the floors or guard the hospitals, but we think nothing of demanding that sort of thing from educators.

Miserable profession, teaching.

 

[Agnapostate]

Ivan Illich is obviously a preferable figure to follow, as are John Holt, John Taylor Gatto, Grace Llewellyn, etc.

 

[Munin]

This seems to prove my statement that schools "brainwash" kids, it also proves my statement that a private school policy is very dangerous:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hBXHtQDxOo&feature=related]YouTube - UK Islamic School[/ame]

 

[Agnapostate]

It's not even a matter of religious fundamentalist schools, though their existence obviously is concerning. It's a matter of schools, whether public or private, indoctrinating their students with demands for conformity and obedience to authoritarian institutes.

 

[eots]

For some kids, school is an escape from hell and an outlet for their intelligence and interest in improving their lives.

but not many..when they find one they make a movie of the week about it

 

[Amanda]

For some kids, school is an escape from hell and an outlet for their intelligence and interest in improving their lives.

but not many..when they find one they make a movie of the week about it

Too true. There were maybe 5 kids at my school that I think actually liked being there. maybe there were a bunch more and they just hid it well.

 

[Munin]

For some kids, school is an escape from hell and an outlet for their intelligence and interest in improving their lives.

but not many..when they find one they make a movie of the week about it

Too true. There were maybe 5 kids at my school that I think actually liked being there. maybe there were a bunch more and they just hid it well.

I agree, I had a similar experience. I do not remember many kids that were happy that their vacation was over so they could go back to school. (but not for high school or university because that is mostly a choice of students to go their and is not obligated)

 

[random3434]

I think every parent in America should home school their child, that way everyone is happy!

The Libertarians, because then the government isn't paying for schooling.

The Republicans, because they think public schools suck and it turns their kids into thugs and whores.

The Democrats because schools have the pledge in them.

Anarchists because school takes away all their freedoms and doesn't let them do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want to do it.

 

[manu1959]

what is school for..........pic up drunk chicks at frat parties......

 

[manu1959]

I think every parent in America should home school their child, that way everyone is happy!

The Libertarians, because then the government isn't paying for schooling.

The Republicans, because they think public schools suck and it turns their kids into thugs and whores.

The Democrats because schools have the pledge in them.

Anarchists because school takes away all their freedoms and doesn't let them do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want to do it.

more time with your parents...........are you nuts....

 

[Agnapostate]

I think every parent in America should home school their child, that way everyone is happy!

Anarchists because school takes away all their freedoms and doesn't let them do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want to do it.

I've already asked you and Annie not to take criticisms of schooling as personal attacks; evidently, you're more interested in being counterproductive. The authoritarian nature of schooling is not the fault o individual teachers. For instance, a fellow youth rights activist is a kindergarten teacher. (A male kindergarten teacher, so I can imagine how people such as you and your other conspiracy theorists here would feel about him.)

I don't necessarily favor parental homeschooling in that parents often duplicate the authoritarian, coercively regimented environment of schools. I am of the opinion that such techniques have the consequence of inhibiting the autodidactic tendencies of children and youth. (Their ability to teach themselves.) What I do favor is unschooling, in the spirit of John Holt and Ivan Illich, two authors that I would recommend consulting if you have not already done so.

As I said, I escaped from that world of conformity and bureaucracy. I took the California High School Proficiency Exam, and left high school two years early, which is why I'm in community college now. I certainly think that schools can be reformed to a great extent if they were to adopt a libertarian model involving the abolition of compulsion and coercion in favor of free and voluntary access to learning materials, and establishment of direct democratic governance of schools by their students.

Unfortunately, in practical terms, unschooling is probably the best option for the foreseeable future.

 

[editec]

Nice combination of qualities. Strippers putting yourselves through school?

The thought just occured to me that I never met a coed who told me"

"I'm just going to college until I can land that job as a stripper."

Given what strippers make compared to what most college grads make, one almost wonders why.

 

[Munin]

I think every parent in America should home school their child, that way everyone is happy!

The Libertarians, because then the government isn't paying for schooling.

The Republicans, because they think public schools suck and it turns their kids into thugs and whores.

The Democrats because schools have the pledge in them.

Anarchists because school takes away all their freedoms and doesn't let them do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want to do it.

Not every parent is suited for teaching and there are only a few parents that can teach all these courses: simply because most of them have only one or two area(s) of expertise.

Also: how are parents going to work if they have to be teaching? Normally parents are already responsible for teaching their kids, they already can teach their kids as much as they want.

 

[random3434]

Me thinks some people don't get sarcasm around here....................

 

[Munin]

Me thinks some people don't get sarcasm around here....................

It is hard to tell what is sarcasm and what is not with all these morons that really mean the idiotic things they say on this forum. Maybe you should put a smiley that says sarcasm (too bad this forum doesn't have one ) next to it, that way I won't mistake you for someone who means something different.

 

[random3434]

Me thinks some people don't get sarcasm around here....................

It is hard to tell what is sarcasm and what is not with all these morons that really mean the idiotic things they say on this forum. Maybe you should put a smiley that says sarcasm (too bad this forum doesn't have one ) next to it, that way I won't mistake you for someone who means something different.

I like your one, can I have it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not every parent is suited for teaching and there are only a few parents that can teach all these courses: simply because most of them have only one or two area(s) of expertise.

Also: how are parents going to work if they have to be teaching? Normally parents are already responsible for teaching their kids, they already can teach their kids as much as they want.

Personally, I think a parent's temperament has more to do with whether they can homeschool than their area(s) of expertise. Unless you're a Leonardo da Vinci, no one can be an expert in all fields.

There are parents out there working and homeschooling. It boggles my mind, but it is possible. In many cases, the parent has a home-based business. By the time, the child is in middle school grades, he can do a majority of the work independently.

 

[BrianH]

I think the main "challenge" with schools today is teaching kids that their education is actually worth something.

The main brunt of problems come from parents who actually treat the school as if it is a "baby-sitting" instutution to watch their kids while they're at work. Because I can assure you, most teachers don't waste their time being baby-sitters. The problem does go both ways, however. ALOT of improvement can be made in the education system. But blaming teachers is NOT a viable option. Many teachers, or former teachers, will tell you that they're hands are tied when it comes to standardized testing. Many teachers hate them as much as the students hate them. I think we need to take a shift away from standardized testing, and towards skilled labor. I've seen kids not be able to pass a standardized test, but then tear down and rebuild a transmission.

 

[hansom]

Brian, I agree with you, with one addition: Kids don't know what they need. If they did, many probably wouldn't be in public education.
Personally, I'd make different decisions, if I did it all over again. I would have tested up when given the chance, and homeschooled a little more. Probably would have skipped college, and gone into the workforce sooner.

Part of the problem; our education system is designed to promote obedience and to crush independent thought. The goal is proper, functional citizens, not thinkers and innovaters.

Ultimately, finishing school is paramount; maintaining a 'learning' mindset is hostile to reaching mental maturity, which ultimately comes from experience. Take a look at cultures of the past, even 50 years ago

 

[random3434]

I think the main "challenge" with schools today is teaching kids that their education is actually worth something.

The main brunt of problems come from parents who actually treat the school as if it is a "baby-sitting" instutution to watch their kids while they're at work. Because I can assure you, most teachers don't waste their time being baby-sitters. The problem does go both ways, however. ALOT of improvement can be made in the education system. But blaming teachers is NOT a viable option. Many teachers, or former teachers, will tell you that they're hands are tied when it comes to standardized testing. Many teachers hate them as much as the students hate them. I think we need to take a shift away from standardized testing, and towards skilled labor. I've seen kids not be able to pass a standardized test, but then tear down and rebuild a transmission.

You are correct about the standardized testing! So many schools just want teachers to "teach to the test"-and stifle them of any creativity in the classroom.

Also, I agree students should be able to learn some sort of "trade" while in school, if they choose that path. Not every child wants to go to college. We have a Career Center here at one of the high schools for the students, it is a great tool for them to learn a trade while in school. More high schools should use this idea imo.