What is Climate Denial costing the US?

[CrusaderFrank]

It's abundently clear that Saigon is very insecure about his education

 

[Oddball]

I remember when Americans backed free trade and capitalism. Not any more.

Good to see posters like Katzndogz lining up to condemn them. Skooks would probably be anti-capitalist hmself if he could spell the word.

Subsidies and sweetheart deals to political contributors have nothing to do with free trade and capitalism, eurotrash pinko.

 

[Saigon]

Oddball -

Nothing on this thread has anything to do with subsidies, imbecile.

This thread is about free trade, investment and capitalism - which you guys all apparently oppose.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd -

It may be that this topic - like so many others - is sinply beyond your understanding.

But let's try:

Private companies in a half dozen countries make money and create jobs in renewable energies. They receive no money from government, no subsidies and no pay offs. They are private companies.

Is that clear?

Oh, I understand wasteful government subsidies just fine.

How is that renewable energy boondogle working out for Spain?
How much did they waste? How many companies still in business?
How much more expensive was the renewable energy?
How's that unreliable wind energy working out in Europe?
Any real info on those profitable companies that you could share?
Or is it just your feeling that they're doing so well?

 

[Saigon]

Todd -

Oh, I understand wasteful government subsidies just fine.

I think it's best that we conclude that you lack both the literacy and intelligence to discuss this topic.

For the 500th time - THERE ARE NO SUBSIDIES INVOLVED in these companies.

If you can read the thread - do so. THEN post. Or find a grownup to help you do so.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Anyone interested in the merits of the Denier case could do worse than review the literacy on display on this thread.

If you combined Oddball, Todd, Frank and BriPat you'd almost have enough brain for a guinea pig. And it still wouldn't be able to spell.

Four posters so far who don't seem to know what free trade or capitalism is.

You poor girl.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd -

Oh, I understand wasteful government subsidies just fine.

I think it's best that we conclude that you lack both the literacy and intelligence to discuss this topic.

For the 500th time - THERE ARE NO SUBSIDIES INVOLVED in these companies.

If you can read the thread - do so. THEN post. Or find a grownup to help you do so.

Prove it.

 

[Saigon]

Todd -

Realistically, there are probably around a hundred major manufacturers working in renewables - easily another hundred private companies involved in consulting, research and in peripheral trades.

Worldwide, this amounts to several tends of thousands of jobs, and billions of dollars a year in trade. Most of these are share-listed companies.

I'll just post one here as an example of one of the larger players, which is a subsidiary if Siemens Germany.


MCT:

Marine Current Turbines Ltd (MCT) has a demonstrated pedigree of pioneering the development of tidal stream generation technology for over 20 years. Now wholly owned by Siemens, forming part of the Ocean & Hydro Business, MCT is poised to become the World’s leading OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of commercial scale tidal stream technology, dedicated to research, design, manufacture and support of tidal stream energy generating systems.

MCT has proven that the technology is scalable, commercially viable and an environmentally sustainable solution to zero carbon energy generation. The technology is now ready for deployment in commercial scale tidal energy projects.

MCT is now focused on the development of the first tidal array projects in the UK on carefully selected sites that will deliver a good commercial return for investors.

Welcome to MCT | Marine Current Turbines


When we look back on this thread we see a half dozen posters bitterly opposed to this kind of free trade and capitalism in action, and that is obviously why the jobs and export dollars don't go to the US.

Korea, Germany, Scotland and Japan must love the fact that so many Americans don't support capitalism anymore.

 

[Saigon]

Siemens Germany:

The power of the tides represents a nearly untapped source of clean energy. As the energy density of water compared to wind is 800 times higher, power generation is much more efficient. Additionally, the energy yield of an ocean power plant is highly precisely predictable and thus enhances the planning security in electricity output, as tidal currents are determined by the gravity of the moon and the sun. Therefore ocean power plants can be installed wherever ebb and flood generate strong currents.
This global availability leads to an estimated output potential of 800 Terawatt hours per year – an amount of electricity, which is enough to supply 250 million households with clean energy.

Ocean Power - Siemens

 

[Saigon]

Tocardo Holland

The Tocardo concept was developed by Teamwork Technology, an incubator for renewable concepts such as energy, transport and housing. Different concepts, from a venture to a ring generator, have been developed but proved to be too expensive and unreliable. Instead of focusing on efficiency the decision was made to focus on reliability and affordability. The offshore experience and knowledge within the company resulted in the installation of the first Tocardo test turbine in 2005, followed by the installation of a commercial turbine in 2008.

Tocardo became an independent company in 2008 and has been fully commercial since 2012 when the first turbines were sold to clients in Nepal and Japan. With the investments of both Huisman and Repsol Tocardo is ready to become a leader in the tidal energy market.

Tocardo - tidal, river & ocean energy power turbines - History

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd -

Realistically, there are probably around a hundred major manufacturers working in renewables - easily another hundred private companies involved in consulting, research and in peripheral trades.

Worldwide, this amounts to several tends of thousands of jobs, and billions of dollars a year in trade. Most of these are share-listed companies.

I'll just post one here as an example of one of the larger players, which is a subsidiary if Siemens Germany.


MCT:

Marine Current Turbines Ltd (MCT) has a demonstrated pedigree of pioneering the development of tidal stream generation technology for over 20 years. Now wholly owned by Siemens, forming part of the Ocean & Hydro Business, MCT is poised to become the World’s leading OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) of commercial scale tidal stream technology, dedicated to research, design, manufacture and support of tidal stream energy generating systems.

MCT has proven that the technology is scalable, commercially viable and an environmentally sustainable solution to zero carbon energy generation. The technology is now ready for deployment in commercial scale tidal energy projects.

MCT is now focused on the development of the first tidal array projects in the UK on carefully selected sites that will deliver a good commercial return for investors.

Welcome to MCT | Marine Current Turbines


When we look back on this thread we see a half dozen posters bitterly opposed to this kind of free trade and capitalism in action, and that is obviously why the jobs and export dollars don't go to the US.

Korea, Germany, Scotland and Japan must love the fact that so many Americans don't support capitalism anymore.

Great, tidal works, everything else is a waste of money.
Thanks.

 

[Oddball]

Oddball -

Nothing on this thread has anything to do with subsidies, imbecile.

This thread is about free trade, investment and capitalism - which you guys all apparently oppose.

From money pit urban mass transit boondoggles to ETOH to solar to the goofy windmills, the "green energy" scam is heavily subsidized in America....That's the fact.

That's what is known as corporate fascism, not free market capitalism, uncle Karl.

 

[Flopper]

The billions blown on towering debacles like Solyndra, Sun Power, idiotic subsides for ETOH and goofy windmills makes us a leader in failure.

The US has a long history of goofy subsidies, telegraphs, telephones, railroads, oil and gas, atomic energy, space exploration, etc. A lot of companies in new industries fail, in fact, most do, but that doesn't mean we should't invest in that industry.

Often government provides subsidies for new industries that private investors shun because of the lack of established markets or high risk reward ratios. In the 1960's, no one in their right mind would invest in operating satellites, at least not until the government created Comsat. Comsat corporation, the first commercial operator of satellites was created in 1963 with private investments, government guaranteed loans and contracts. Today there are over 500 US satellites. 350 are commercially operated.

You're comparing communication satellites that make scads of money to stupid-assed, bankrupt, money pit "green energy" scams?

Srsly?

Communication satellites didn't always make money. Only after government funding of space exploration that developed the technology and government backed commercial satellite operation, did private industry develop and operate communication satellites.

The private sector is rarely interested in committing large sums of money without a return on investment within 5 years. The building of the transcontinental railroad relied on government land grants and bonds. Government established the first commercial satellite operation. Government funding in bio-medical research laid the foundation for many privately funded commercial enterprises.

 

[Oddball]

Railroads ended up in the hands of the Robber Barons that leftbats like you hate so much...Now that same model is being used for idiotic money-sucking "green energy" scams and you rubes lap it up!

Amazing.

 

[boedicca]

AGW Worship has cost the U.S. millions of jobs. We're headed towards the Spanish trajectory if we don't reverse course.

It's not a coincidence that we have a 10 million jobs deficit during Obama's Green Era.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What is Climate Denial costing the US?

Who in the U.S. are denying we have a climate?

 

[freedombecki]

Todd -

It may be that this topic - like so many others - is sinply beyond your understanding.

But let's try:

Private companies in a half dozen countries make money and create jobs in renewable energies. They receive no money from government, no subsidies and no pay offs. They are private companies.

Is that clear?

What's beyond comprehension is people who think spending billions to make a couple of million is sustainable.

 

[Flopper]

Railroads ended up in the hands of the Robber Barons that leftbats like you hate so much...Now that same model is being used for idiotic money-sucking "green energy" scams and you rubes lap it up!

Amazing.

You mean money sucking republican robbery barons. Irregardless, the transcontinental railroad was a huge asset to the nation as will be alternative energy sources.

 

[boedicca]

Todd -

It may be that this topic - like so many others - is sinply beyond your understanding.

But let's try:

Private companies in a half dozen countries make money and create jobs in renewable energies. They receive no money from government, no subsidies and no pay offs. They are private companies.

Is that clear?

What's beyond comprehension is people who think spending billions to make a couple of million is sustainable.

They are the same people who think it's okay to spend $278K per job SAVED or created by the stimulus spending binge.

 

[freedombecki]

Siemens Germany:

The power of the tides represents a nearly untapped source of clean energy. As the energy density of water compared to wind is 800 times higher, power generation is much more efficient. Additionally, the energy yield of an ocean power plant is highly precisely predictable and thus enhances the planning security in electricity output, as tidal currents are determined by the gravity of the moon and the sun. Therefore ocean power plants can be installed wherever ebb and flood generate strong currents.
This global availability leads to an estimated output potential of 800 Terawatt hours per year – an amount of electricity, which is enough to supply 250 million households with clean energy.

Ocean Power - Siemens

Saigon, my alma mater, Oregon State University, is showing a concern about both ocean current-generated electricity and wind turbines on marine mammals. (The wind turbines have made migrations confusing and deadly to certain species of water mammals in the Baltic region by EU zoologists), plus in Oregon, they are concerned about the Eastern gray whale, the Harbor porpoise, and the local pinniped populations.

While the idea of free and 20-hours-a-day renewability of harvesting power from the mesmerizing current propellers, turned by tidal power at no cost to us, is the cost worth it to our oceanic brethren?​

Have we become a "kill them all" specie to make ourselves comfortable on dry land with no thought of the impact to other earthly species? Species who can talk to each other, but we think ourselves so clever when we haven't a clue what our own fellow beings are saying. You'd think we were in another dimension, but we're not, really.​

Let's not be too hasty. These mammals have evolved over millenia to know where they are by inner radar, the likes of which humans do not seem to know. Could one of us swim from pole to pole with no gadgets, motors, or other fancy accoutrements to guide us? Who's the smartest? ​

Do our intelligence tests include inner direction-finding? If it did, how would we stack up against a seal? Tell me.​

Here is Amy E. Davis' Study in PDF: Potential Impacts of Ocean Energy Development on Marine Mammals in Oregon

And she includes a global statistic map in Table 8 showing problematic areas to sea mammals which should be checked out by you.