What gives the State the right to ban guns in church?

[Peejay]

Jesus Christ.......a bunch of pro gun people are on the verge of convincing me that we do need gun control.

No wonder people think we should be keeping guns out of your hands. You're dangerous.

 

[Againsheila]

You're a moron. Anyone that knows about gun safety knows that one of the most common ways people get shot is with an "unloaded" gun. There is no such thing as an unloaded. It is one of the primary rules of responsible gun ownership. If these people thought this woman was crazy for bringing a gun into the office, one of two things was true of them:

1) They were responsible and informed gun handlers who know better than to be showing off a weapon in an office setting.

2) They were gun novices without the proper training to know if a gun is safe or not. The last people you should be showing off your gun to.

In either case, the woman was foolish. Like I said before, no one in her office should ever know she has a gun unless she actually had to use it.

Making assumptions about a woman in article could be described as ignorant and moronic.

Second, you have no idea of the atmosphere in the office, obviously the woman in the article knows something of the people she works with and the office that you do not.

You make more assumptions than I have an analogy for.

Tell us of the possible bias of the author of the story, tell us how the story came to the attention of the paper, tell us of the motives or the lack of motives of those involved in every aspect of the stories. Tell us how many pro-gun or anti-gun stories this paper posts.

Better yet, stop, take a deep breath and think. I have been describing people as thinking primitively, I think you should stop and consider my post, and the others posts, and not post with the passion of your emotion but just take the time to think maybe your opinion is a bit manipulated by an article that is missing much information.

If you wish to call me a moron for requesting that you consider much more than you actually have, so be it, but without making these considerations your posts sound much more moronic than mine.

You have no business with a gun. This woman has no business with a gun. Anyone who excuses her actions has no business with a gun.

See my nprevious post. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

If she had embraced this basic rule, this universal truth of guns, she would have thought "I souldn't be showing off a loaed gun". "I shouldn't have this gun directed at anything I am not prepared to destroy, including my desk chair."

This is basic shit. If you don't know this, you are a moron, regarding guns.

How do you know she didn't abide by the rules and not aim the gun at anyone or make sure no one put their fingers on the trigger? You can show off your gun and still abide by the gun safety rules. How else do you think people learn anything about guns? Perhaps the other people in the office are better off for her showing them her gun and explaining gun safety?

 

[Peejay]

Making assumptions about a woman in article could be described as ignorant and moronic.

Second, you have no idea of the atmosphere in the office, obviously the woman in the article knows something of the people she works with and the office that you do not.

You make more assumptions than I have an analogy for.

Tell us of the possible bias of the author of the story, tell us how the story came to the attention of the paper, tell us of the motives or the lack of motives of those involved in every aspect of the stories. Tell us how many pro-gun or anti-gun stories this paper posts.

Better yet, stop, take a deep breath and think. I have been describing people as thinking primitively, I think you should stop and consider my post, and the others posts, and not post with the passion of your emotion but just take the time to think maybe your opinion is a bit manipulated by an article that is missing much information.

If you wish to call me a moron for requesting that you consider much more than you actually have, so be it, but without making these considerations your posts sound much more moronic than mine.

You have no business with a gun. This woman has no business with a gun. Anyone who excuses her actions has no business with a gun.

See my nprevious post. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

If she had embraced this basic rule, this universal truth of guns, she would have thought "I souldn't be showing off a loaed gun". "I shouldn't have this gun directed at anything I am not prepared to destroy, including my desk chair."

This is basic shit. If you don't know this, you are a moron, regarding guns.

How do you know she didn't abide by the rules and not aim the gun at anyone or make sure no one put their fingers on the trigger? You can show off your gun and still abide by the gun safety rules. How else do you think people learn anything about guns? Perhaps the other people in the office are better off for her showing them her gun and explaining gun safety?

Keep rationalizing for this person.

The story was that her fellow employees were not too pleased with her bringing a gun in. And make sure that no one put their finger on the trigger? Are you now saying that she actually handed the gun over, in her office to someone? Are you claiming now that she was making some kind of safety demonstration? Is she a safety instructor now?

No, the story is that she brought a gun in and showed to a bunch of people who were not comfortable with it. Either they aren't comfortable with guns or they didn't think she was safe with one. In either case, piss poor judgement on handling a firearm.

 

[Againsheila]

You have no business with a gun. This woman has no business with a gun. Anyone who excuses her actions has no business with a gun.

See my nprevious post. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

If she had embraced this basic rule, this universal truth of guns, she would have thought "I souldn't be showing off a loaed gun". "I shouldn't have this gun directed at anything I am not prepared to destroy, including my desk chair."

This is basic shit. If you don't know this, you are a moron, regarding guns.

How do you know she didn't abide by the rules and not aim the gun at anyone or make sure no one put their fingers on the trigger? You can show off your gun and still abide by the gun safety rules. How else do you think people learn anything about guns? Perhaps the other people in the office are better off for her showing them her gun and explaining gun safety?

Keep rationalizing for this person.

The story was that her fellow employees were not too pleased with her bringing a gun in. And make sure that no one put their finger on the trigger? Are you now saying that she actually handed the gun over, in her office to someone? Are you claiming now that she was making some kind of safety demonstration? Is she a safety instructor now?

No, the story is that she brought a gun in and showed to a bunch of people who were not comfortable with it. Either they aren't comfortable with guns or they didn't she was safe with one. In either case, piss poor judgement on handling a firearm.

If they aren't comfortable with guns, then they definitely needed a gun safety lesson. I think you are making assumptions, just like I am. Neither one of us knows the whole story.

At any rate, with the decline in our civilization, I think it's stupid for anyone not to know how to use a gun today.

 

[krotchdog]

You're a moron. Anyone that knows about gun safety knows that one of the most common ways people get shot is with an "unloaded" gun. There is no such thing as an unloaded. It is one of the primary rules of responsible gun ownership. If these people thought this woman was crazy for bringing a gun into the office, one of two things was true of them:

1) They were responsible and informed gun handlers who know better than to be showing off a weapon in an office setting.

2) They were gun novices without the proper training to know if a gun is safe or not. The last people you should be showing off your gun to.

In either case, the woman was foolish. Like I said before, no one in her office should ever know she has a gun unless she actually had to use it.

Making assumptions about a woman in article could be described as ignorant and moronic.

Second, you have no idea of the atmosphere in the office, obviously the woman in the article knows something of the people she works with and the office that you do not.

You make more assumptions than I have an analogy for.

Tell us of the possible bias of the author of the story, tell us how the story came to the attention of the paper, tell us of the motives or the lack of motives of those involved in every aspect of the stories. Tell us how many pro-gun or anti-gun stories this paper posts.

Better yet, stop, take a deep breath and think. I have been describing people as thinking primitively, I think you should stop and consider my post, and the others posts, and not post with the passion of your emotion but just take the time to think maybe your opinion is a bit manipulated by an article that is missing much information.

If you wish to call me a moron for requesting that you consider much more than you actually have, so be it, but without making these considerations your posts sound much more moronic than mine.

You have no business with a gun. This woman has no business with a gun. Anyone who excuses her actions has no business with a gun.

See my nprevious post. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

If she had embraced this basic rule, this universal truth of guns, she would have thought "I souldn't be showing off a loaed gun". "I shouldn't have this gun directed at anything I am not prepared to destroy, including my desk chair."

This is basic shit. If you don't know this, you are a moron, regarding guns.

That is not a universal truth, it is good gun safety, but you are making assumptions and attempting to defend "a universal truth" to demonize something you disagree with.

An ariticle is not fact, its a story, nothing more. You make assumptions without the knowledge of actually being there, if this is something that happened in your office and you witnessed it, fine. This is not the case.

The woman showed good judgement and handled the gun correctly, obviously someone else in the office is hoping for the womans job so she is running a smear campaign agaist her. People should advance in thier careers on merit.

 

[xsited1]

Jesus Christ.......a bunch of pro gun people are on the verge of convincing me that we do need gun control.

No wonder people think we should be keeping guns out of your hands. You're dangerous.

 

[Peejay]

How do you know she didn't abide by the rules and not aim the gun at anyone or make sure no one put their fingers on the trigger? You can show off your gun and still abide by the gun safety rules. How else do you think people learn anything about guns? Perhaps the other people in the office are better off for her showing them her gun and explaining gun safety?

Keep rationalizing for this person.

The story was that her fellow employees were not too pleased with her bringing a gun in. And make sure that no one put their finger on the trigger? Are you now saying that she actually handed the gun over, in her office to someone? Are you claiming now that she was making some kind of safety demonstration? Is she a safety instructor now?

No, the story is that she brought a gun in and showed to a bunch of people who were not comfortable with it. Either they aren't comfortable with guns or they didn't she was safe with one. In either case, piss poor judgement on handling a firearm.

If they aren't comfortable with guns, then they definitely needed a gun safety lesson. I think you are making assumptions, just like I am. Neither one of us knows the whole story.

At any rate, with the decline in our civilization, I think it's stupid for anyone not to know how to use a gun today.

I would agree, to some extent but I question how you say this. There is a proper mindset about guns that make them safe, more precisely, the people that handle them safe. Before we show people how to use a gun, they first have to be taught how to store, respect and not use a gun. That is part of the problem. Too many people want to knwo how to use and we get the wrong mindset and disregard for the many things that come way before actually using a gun.

With the information provided in that story, just about any qualified gun handler will tell you that woman has no business with a gun and certainly should not have been showing it off in her office. The only thing that would change this is if her office was a gun range, a gun trainig facility or a secure gun dealership with trained personel. I don't get that any of these things are true. A typical office is not an acceptable place to be showing off a gun. Invite your office friends to the range. If they are interested, they will show up. Like I have said, no one in her office should have ever seen that gun in there unless she had to use it. A gun is used for defense, hunting and targets. If you aren't doing one of these things, your weapon should be secure and safe. They are not toys. They are guns.

This conversation is making me weary and wary. Learn the basics of gun safety if you want to advocate guns.

 

[krotchdog]

Jesus Christ.......a bunch of pro gun people are on the verge of convincing me that we do need gun control.

No wonder people think we should be keeping guns out of your hands. You're dangerous.

So you are not pro-gun so your assertions on how a gun should be treated is based on a political opinion. Political opinions are irrelevant to the proper way to handle guns.

Further you stated that a gun should never be shown until used, so let me get your OPINION straight, in an office you will not know a woman who works with you daily is carrying a gun and according to your opinion that is how it should be. So if we act on your opinion your opinion will put is a very dangerous situation.

You state that the woman did not handle the gun correctly, that she did not treat it as loaded, if she never showed the gun and you were ignorant of this than you never know if she knows how to handle a gun, is that not dangerous.

Can you not admit that it would be better if you saw the gun, than you know a gun is close to you, do you not have a right to know if you work in an office with or without guns. Thus knowing you can make a decision as to if you wish to work in an office with guns.

Further when a person shows the gun you get to observe exactly how she handles the gun and determine if she handles it properly.

Did she keep it pointed at the floor at all times.

Did she check the chamber for a round

Was a magazine loaded in the weapon.

You can also than ask her if she took gun safety classes, if she goes to the range. You could even ask to go to a range with her and see her skill

After all you would want to know how well she handles the gun.

after considering all points of your arguement I cannot see how your idea of gun safety does is baseless and ignorant thus if followed your opinion can put people in danger.

I say lets have a "show of your gun at the office day".

 

[Zoom-boing]

I say lets have a "show of your gun at the office day".

As long as it's not the same day as 'bring your kids to work day'.

Peejay, I agree with you about 'no gun is unloaded'. Of course a gun can be unloaded but a gun should always be handled and treated as if it is loaded, for safety reasons.

The story that I told took place in my brother's step-daughters office. I can't give any more details than I have because I don't have them. From the questions I asked and the answers I was given, it sounded like the woman who bought the gun in knew about them and was handling it safely.

 

[Peejay]

Krotchdude, I am pro gun, dumb ass. This has nothing to do with any political thought. I am agaisnt gun control. Problem is, if we don't get people to behave properly with guns, we're going to get gun control. Sure thing, let's go out and promote a "show off your gun at work day" . That won't make any cannon fodder for the anti gun folks eh? It's idiotic shit like that that will get your damned guns restricted. Hint: NOT FOLLOWING BASIC SAFETY.

Cornered Cat - Four Rules

Airguns Trinidad and Tobago: The Four Universal Gun Safety Rules:

Peabody Sports - Gun Safety

DUNDEE SPORTSMANS CLUB INC UNIVERSAL GUN SAFTY RULES

Personal Defense Solutions - Getting a Pennsylvania Concealed Carry Firearms Permit

CRPA

How may cites do you want for the universal rules of gun safety?

As a responsible gun owner, I am appaulled by the lack of recognition of these basic safety guidlines.

RULE #! - EVERY GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED

This simple rule speaks volumes and if observed, most unsafe prctices become evident. Including showing off a gun in your office. That's what the range is for. On a farm, in the woods. An office full of people? You've got to be kidding me.

 

[Peejay]

I say lets have a "show of your gun at the office day".

As long as it's not the same day as 'bring your kids to work day'.

Peejay, I agree with you about 'no gun is unloaded'. Of course a gun can be unloaded but a gun should always be handled and treated as if it is loaded, for safety reasons.

The story that I told took place in my brother's step-daughters office. I can't give any more details than I have because I don't have them. From the questions I asked and the answers I was given, it sounded like the woman who bought the gun in knew about them and was handling it safely.

The thing is, if we assume, correctly, that gun was loaded, and treat it as if it were, there is no circumstance to be handling a loaded gun, inisde an office, full of people, short of defending yourself. You aren't hunting or taking target practice. End of story.

Again, and it was your story I was refering to, if she wanted to show off the gun, there is a place for that. It is not her office. This is the lack of respect for firearms that results in accidents. It was not safe. It can not be safe, by the basic rules of gun safety. That is EXACTLY how people get shot.

 

[krotchdog]

Jesus Christ.......a bunch of pro gun people are on the verge of convincing me that we do need gun control.

No wonder people think we should be keeping guns out of your hands. You're dangerous.

Hey peejay, I am sorry but to me this reads as if you are on the opposite side. Thats all, and the way you portray the story sounds as if you are on the opposite side of the issue.

I have problems wording things, I have problems interputting things, I ask for clarification, yet I have not been calling you a moron nor a dumb ass so grow up and put that brain of yours in gear.

You display incredible ignorance with the assumptions you have made.

Treat every gun as loaded, no, make sure every gun is unloaded, how do you treat a gun as loaded if its you got it all apart, or lets say you are showing the gun to someone, you drop the magazine, inspect the chamber, than you still treat it as loaded?

I am not convinced you know a thing about guns regardless of your stated "I am pro-gun", actually I have not read much and I despite what you say I do not believe you "pro-gun".

Your ideas of what you never do and always do just does not make sense.

When I pick up a gun I inspect for a round, after that I will treat the gun as unloaded.

If I am working around guns, I prefer they show me the gun, if they do not clear the chamber I instruct them to do so.

I also ask if they have any training, what thier experience is.

If anything in that sounds wrong to you than I judge you as not knowing what the hell you are talking about.

Yea, if you pick up a gun, check, after that its safe to handle.

 

[Peejay]

Krotch, it's all about attitude. I agree with everything you posted except the part about checking and then treating the gun as unloaded. That leads to complacency and that causes accidents. I mean, how do you treat the gun differently? (aside from breaking it down or cleaning) Do you wave it around? Point it at things that you don't intend to shoot at? What exactly is this different treatment for the weapon once you have decided to treat it as unloaded? Do you dry fire the weapon at passing motorist?

I have a .22, H&R, 9 shot revolver in the night stand. I have a 20 and 12 gauge pump for bird hunting, a single shot 20 for turkey and a 7.62mm Czek made service side arm. I only use the Czek for the range. Loud as hell and an unweildy beast.

 

[KittenKoder]

Guns: The only gun laws that work at all are tough sentences for crimes committed with them, banning them has done nothing and is just plain stupid.

Churches: If you don't want the laws involved push for more "separation of church and state" laws, while it means you have to sacrifice having your idols in federal property, it also keeps such laws from effecting you.

 

[krotchdog]

Krotch, it's all about attitude. I agree with everything you posted except the part about checking and then treating the gun as unloaded. That leads to complacency and that causes accidents. I mean, how do you treat the gun differently? (aside from breaking it down or cleaning) Do you wave it around? Point it at things that you don't intend to shoot at? What exactly is this different treatment for the weapon once you have decided to treat it as unloaded? Do you dry fire the weapon at passing motorist?

I have a .22, H&R, 9 shot revolver in the night stand. I have a 20 and 12 gauge pump for bird hunting, a single shot 20 for turkey and a 7.62mm Czek made service side arm. I only use the Czek for the range. Loud as hell and an unweildy beast.

If you always treated a gun as loaded than you would never hand it to friend, you would never put it in a car, etc, etc, etc.

We can go round and round but we dont need to, I thought you were against guns, period. If you think a gun should never be seen, thats how you feel, so be it. I do not see it that way. I would love if someone I worked with pulled out a gun, although working in a secure area that is pretty much a job killer, but if I worked in an office and a gun was pulled out it is an oppurtunity to see how that person behaves and its knowledge I want.

People should talk about guns if they own them, they should know if people they work with have them. I know that not one person I am working with is carrying a gun, only security at the front gate.

It would trouble me deeply if everyone kept weapons of all sorts completely hid, I love knowing where I am and who I am around, how they behave.

This woman did the right thing, showing a gun to others that admire guns is right. Guns are much more than simply weapons, they are a tool, they are art, they are an example of craftsmanship and beauty. We should not be forced into a closet. We have the right to show or guns to friends even at our job if that is the attitude of those who own the company.

Yes, a poorly handled gun can kill, but that is no reason to go over the top and restrict a gun to being nothing more than a weapon.

I own two guns and want more. I want like I saw in "the outlaw josey wales", I wont shoot it, it will be art and displayed as such, it will always be unloaded and I will frame it and put it on the wall, if I was to treat it as loaded I could not do that.

I want five winshester rifles in a rack like I see when I watch john wayne and dean martin, those will be loaded, unlocked, proudly displayed.

People are going crazy.

Too many people are above and beyond simple safety.

 

[Peejay]

Krotch, it's all about attitude. I agree with everything you posted except the part about checking and then treating the gun as unloaded. That leads to complacency and that causes accidents. I mean, how do you treat the gun differently? (aside from breaking it down or cleaning) Do you wave it around? Point it at things that you don't intend to shoot at? What exactly is this different treatment for the weapon once you have decided to treat it as unloaded? Do you dry fire the weapon at passing motorist?

I have a .22, H&R, 9 shot revolver in the night stand. I have a 20 and 12 gauge pump for bird hunting, a single shot 20 for turkey and a 7.62mm Czek made service side arm. I only use the Czek for the range. Loud as hell and an unweildy beast.

If you always treated a gun as loaded than you would never hand it to friend, you would never put it in a car, etc, etc, etc.

We can go round and round but we dont need to, I thought you were against guns, period. If you think a gun should never be seen, thats how you feel, so be it. I do not see it that way. I would love if someone I worked with pulled out a gun, although working in a secure area that is pretty much a job killer, but if I worked in an office and a gun was pulled out it is an oppurtunity to see how that person behaves and its knowledge I want.

People should talk about guns if they own them, they should know if people they work with have them. I know that not one person I am working with is carrying a gun, only security at the front gate.

It would trouble me deeply if everyone kept weapons of all sorts completely hid, I love knowing where I am and who I am around, how they behave.

This woman did the right thing, showing a gun to others that admire guns is right. Guns are much more than simply weapons, they are a tool, they are art, they are an example of craftsmanship and beauty. We should not be forced into a closet. We have the right to show or guns to friends even at our job if that is the attitude of those who own the company.

Yes, a poorly handled gun can kill, but that is no reason to go over the top and restrict a gun to being nothing more than a weapon.

I own two guns and want more. I want like I saw in "the outlaw josey wales", I wont shoot it, it will be art and displayed as such, it will always be unloaded and I will frame it and put it on the wall, if I was to treat it as loaded I could not do that.

I want five winshester rifles in a rack like I see when I watch john wayne and dean martin, those will be loaded, unlocked, proudly displayed.

People are going crazy.

Too many people are above and beyond simple safety.

Look, I don't want to take away your right to have guns, simply because mine goes with it. But between me and you and anyone that can read this, you are the dumb ass that is going to fuck it up for everyone. Do us a favor and just keep those ideas to yourself.

Five loaded, displayed winchesters.........the fucking poster child for gun control.

 

[Diuretic]

Doesn't anyone prove a weapon any more? Is it out of fashion?

The essence of safety should be simplicity and consistency. This means doing it right every time. Accidents happen when people become complacent and overlook important steps. My goal as a firearms instructor is to ensure this doesn't happen. Years of teaching safety have taught me two important points - in the real world, the simpler the procedure, the easier it is to make it a habit, and acronyms can help people retain information.

During the redesign of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course program in 1998, several alternatives were proposed for an acronym that could be universally used to safety check a firearm. I suggested the word PROVE, and this procedure is now incorporated into the Canadian Firearms Safety Course and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course.

In simple terms, the letters PROVE stand for Point, Remove, Observe, Verify and Examine. These are the steps that should be followed EVERY time a firearm changes hands.

1) Point the firearm in the safest available direction;
2) Remove all ammunition;
3) Observe the chamber;
4) Verify the feeding path;
5) Examine the bore for obstructions.

A selction of articles by David A. Brown - Firearms Safety Specialist

 

[Peejay]

Doesn't anyone prove a weapon any more? Is it out of fashion?

]

Oh hell no.....we pass them around the office after assuring everyone it is unloaded. Then we hang a half dozen, loaded Winchesters on the wall.

 

[Diuretic]

Remind me not to call in Peejay

 

[necritan]

And this is what gives gun control folks the ammuniton they need: idiots with guns. A gun is not a toy. It is not something you show off to your friends. It is not an object of admiration. It is not something to brag about or be overjoyed and giddy that you just got a new one and just must show it to the folks at the office. This is the kind of person and kind of non chalant attitude that gets kids killed. When a kid sees a person behaving this way, they will emulate. They too will be excited and giddy about guns. They will want to show it off. They will make a mistake and put an extra hole in someone.

Guns are to be treated with respect. The range is the place to show your gun. A gun shop, the hunt club a show designated for such. Your office? No one in your office should ever know you even have a gun until the day, God forbid, you have to produce it and use it. Same goes for your church, your hardware store, etc.

I'm not for gun control. I'm for idiot control. Find this woman and take that gun away from her before she gets someone killed.

How does admiring a gun make kids die???

It's all about attitude. I know a couple of kids that learned to admire guns. They pulled one out of their grandfathers night stand and one accidentally blew a hole in the others head. You don't admire. You respect. It is a weapon. It is not a piece of art.

I disagree....I think some guns are beautiful works of art. I also know they are a weapon. My son is well aware that my guns are weapons....and he knows I admire some of them as well.

Is it just a matter of time till he blows himself or someone else away??