What exactly have Liberals done for us?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Capitalism is a system of pure CONSUMTION. Left unattended it would consume EVERYTHING and there would finally be one rich guy with everything and everyone else would be dead. It only works governed and regulated.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete fucking moron...that would include you.

Actually the market economy leads to the most efficient allocation of resources.

Only of those goods and services that can be quantified in value by price alone. Public goods are not efficiently allocated by the market.

All goods are more efficiently allocated by the market. If they're not then that means there isn't enough demand for them, and that's also an important economic indicator. It means that wouldn't be an efficient allocation of resources because nobody wants it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And your options would have been.....???

Read the HISTORY of where the country was at the time, where it's been since, and where we are now and tell me how we could have survived then (and now) without the Federal Reserve. How much personal "stuff" would you be willing to sacrifice by using some sort of barter system? Would you be willing to have your aging parents live in your doublewide along with your immediate family? Would you be trading your services for their health care?

The gold standard isn't a barter system.

No shit. Thanks for making my point. Even 200 years ago, some had it and some didn't. Those who didn't, bartered (traded) goods and services with others. Hello?

I'm afraid I don't even know what your point is.

 

[MaggieMae]

namvet ------------>

OMG your black mammy???? gotta be some disease in your family

I seriously doubt you're a "Nam Vet" at all. You're just to damned stupid. People who served in that war were much more educated in general.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Would you like to explain how capitalism would survive in this day and age without the constant flow of money through the system when most capitalists don't actually have the gold to back up their balance sheets?

It doesn't matter how much gold you have in relation to how much money is in circulation. Certainly we wouldn't be at the old peg where $20 was equal to an ounce of gold, but that's really irrelevant.

It's irrelevant now, but you can thank your lucky stars that Nixon took us off the gold standard in the 1970's. Otherwise, by now, if say China decided to call in our debt and we had to pay it back in gold equivalence, they would literally own us, without having fired a shot.

The gold standard is a monetary system in which a region's common medium of exchange are paper notes that are normally freely convertible into pre-set, fixed quantities of gold.

Nixon didn't take us off the gold standard, he took us off the Bretton Woods system. FDR took us off the gold standard. Which was, of course, a big mistake.

 

[MaggieMae]

fail

You're such an uninformed twit. I can't be bothered with you anymore.

your already bothered

Yes, you are like those gnats flittering around my cantelopes in the kitchen. I need to slap those down too.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

How so? There is an uncontrovertial corralation between deregulation and bubble economics.

OK you don't have an actual bubble between your ears. It is a figure of speach.. a discription... I'll accept that my attempt to describe your brain as insufficiently lacking in scope.

No, there isn't. When interest rates are artificially lowered you get misallocation of capital which is a bubble that inevitably pops.

So who is responsible for that? None other than Alan Greenspan, the financial guru who should have known all about that kind of stuff. (Actually, he did, but kept crossing his fingers.)

We can finally agree on something. Alan Greenspan does deserve most of the blame for our current economic downturn, but it's more a problem of central planning in general more so than just the man behind it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Capitalism is a system of pure CONSUMTION. Left unattended it would consume EVERYTHING and there would finally be one rich guy with everything and everyone else would be dead. It only works governed and regulated.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete fucking moron...that would include you.

Actually the market economy leads to the most efficient allocation of resources.

The problem was, and you are choosing to ignore the inyourface fact, there WERE no markets left. The private money to "allocate" anything was G.O.N.E.

That's vastly over-exaggerating. Of course there was a market, it just contracted. Which was necessary to reallocate resources into more productive sectors due to the misallocation caused by the Federal Reserve.

 

[MaggieMae]

The gold standard isn't a barter system.

No shit. Thanks for making my point. Even 200 years ago, some had it and some didn't. Those who didn't, bartered (traded) goods and services with others. Hello?

I'm afraid I don't even know what your point is.

By your single comment, you appear to imply that the pioneers all walked around with gold coins in their pockets, able to purchase their goods and services. OF COURSE the gold standard, nor the bullion itself, are a universal bartering systems. They never were.

 

[MaggieMae]

It doesn't matter how much gold you have in relation to how much money is in circulation. Certainly we wouldn't be at the old peg where $20 was equal to an ounce of gold, but that's really irrelevant.

It's irrelevant now, but you can thank your lucky stars that Nixon took us off the gold standard in the 1970's. Otherwise, by now, if say China decided to call in our debt and we had to pay it back in gold equivalence, they would literally own us, without having fired a shot.

The gold standard is a monetary system in which a region's common medium of exchange are paper notes that are normally freely convertible into pre-set, fixed quantities of gold.

Nixon didn't take us off the gold standard, he took us off the Bretton Woods system. FDR took us off the gold standard. Which was, of course, a big mistake.

FDR suspended the gold standard. By the end of the Vietnam War, global monetary systems were tied to the dollar. Nixon saw the danger in that and rightfully abandoned the ENTIRE idea.

 

[MaggieMae]

No, there isn't. When interest rates are artificially lowered you get misallocation of capital which is a bubble that inevitably pops.

So who is responsible for that? None other than Alan Greenspan, the financial guru who should have known all about that kind of stuff. (Actually, he did, but kept crossing his fingers.)

We can finally agree on something. Alan Greenspan does deserve most of the blame for our current economic downturn, but it's more a problem of central planning in general more so than just the man behind it.

Much of his decision to keep interest rates low were politically motivated: He did not want inflation to rise which would destroy the "image" of the terrific Bush economy that people continued to believe was actually happening.

 

[Barb]

Actually the market economy leads to the most efficient allocation of resources.

Only of those goods and services that can be quantified in value by price alone. Public goods are not efficiently allocated by the market.

All goods are more efficiently allocated by the market. If they're not then that means there isn't enough demand for them, and that's also an important economic indicator. It means that wouldn't be an efficient allocation of resources because nobody wants it.

Air is in pretty high demand, so is clean water, and there is no way to price or profit from either that would not be an abomination. Effective remedies for deadly diseases are in high demand, but there's no profit in R&D because enough of those who need cannot pay.
People want plenty of things that cannot be priced or sold, they are public goods, and there is either no way to make a profit from them or the profit motive would be a rather cold-blooded method of allocating them.

 

[Maple]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

Right winger--- you do know that Abe Lincoln was a republican????????Let's not forget the Viet Nam war democrats got us in there and it took a republican to get us out.. 21 % interest rates under Jimmy Carter- the fair housing act, guaranteeing that ANYONE could buy a house even if they had NO means of paying for it, causing the crash of the banking system and mostly attributing to our current economic crisis. Oh yes, the liberals have been very busy at the destruction of the US economy and the devastation of the middle class and the country as a whole. Just wait until your taxes go through the roof. There is no exemption for liberals on the tax code, but who knows the fascist president we have may just make all you libs exempt from paying them.

 

[MaggieMae]

Actually the market economy leads to the most efficient allocation of resources.

The problem was, and you are choosing to ignore the inyourface fact, there WERE no markets left. The private money to "allocate" anything was G.O.N.E.

That's vastly over-exaggerating. Of course there was a market, it just contracted. Which was necessary to reallocate resources into more productive sectors due to the misallocation caused by the Federal Reserve.

Are you nuts? What did the Federal Reserve have to do with bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers? The feds weren't even called in until within a matter of 48 hours, someone discovered that LB had no capital to cover massive losses. That was the fault of the Federal Reserve how? It had NOTHING to do with credit default swaps going on internally within those failed financial institutions for years.

 

[rightwinger]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

Right winger--- you do know that Abe Lincoln was a republican????????

What does his being Republican have to do with his being a liberal? Conservatives of his day advocated a "Pro-Choice" platform when it came to slavery. Let each state choose whether they wanted slaves or not. This sentiment of dividing the states into pro-slavery or anti-slavery lead to the civil war.
Abolitionist were liberals, there is no denying it

 

[HUGGY]

best out there s0n............best out there. Everything else pales by camparison, and frankly, captialism would work better without the governemtn going and fcukking with it............

Capitalism is a system of pure CONSUMTION. Left unattended it would consume EVERYTHING and there would finally be one rich guy with everything and everyone else would be dead. It only works governed and regulated.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete fucking moron...that would include you.

Actually the market economy leads to the most efficient allocation of resources.

I do not exist to be a consumer and eventually a victim of someones greed.

We are a nation of human beings. Whatever system we subscribe to it must serve US!

This isn't a game of monopoly. The walking dead vampires of the neo con stinking christian fundimentalist end of days don't give a shit cuz they get sucked up out of thier underwear movement don't get to determine my future.

Some of you take offense to my hatred of these people. Self defense or defense of my country has always trumped all other reasons to justify action that would under other circumstances be viewed as against societies laws.

The health care debate is a crystal clear example of the hatred they have for us. I submit they have declaired us the enemy and demand we pay them tribute even as they meter the rope that hangs us and charge accordingly.

If it is a bloodless war they think they can easily win because they view us as weak and stupid then I say leave them bleeding and wanting.

You that give in willingly to the financial rape of our country deserve whatever they do to you. You are weak and stupid. Piss on you.

 

[namvet]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

Right winger--- you do know that Abe Lincoln was a republican????????Let's not forget the Viet Nam war. 21 % interest rates under Jimmy Carter- the fair housing act, guaranteeing that ANYONE could buy a house even if they had NO means of paying for it.

uh he's NOT a rightwinger. he's totally left.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Liberals do not do things for us. They do things to us!

Oh really?

40 hour week
Child labor laws
equal rights in the workplace
civil rights
gay rights

What did that do TO you?

Gays deserve no special rights whatsoever. They are nothing more than immoral, disgusting pigs. The only right they deserve is a place in the closet where the disgusting bastards belong, PERIOD!

 

[Life_Long_Dem!]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

What have conservatives done for us?hmm lets see.......

1.Created sheer animosity towards us worldwide with their incesent fear mongering and hatred of others different from us.
2. Supported outsourcing of jobs to other nations simply for keeping corporate profit margins higher.
3. They are the true creators of class warfare by keeping the rich richer and holding the poor down.
4. Are against minimum wage increases
5. Want NO advancement of talks for better health care and believe higher education should be for those with silver spoons in their mouths...hence continual cuts in money for higher education.
6.NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND! utter failure from the start
7. IRAQ WAR!(Dems can partially be blamed for that seeing as they believed the lies and faulty intel they were given)
8. wanting to destroy ss and medicare because they are "socialist programs" without which most seniors would be up shits creek without a paddle
9. Believe still in the faulty logic of their hero and his "reaganomics" theory

 

[Wicked Jester]

Liberals fought for medicare, medicaid and social security. Just look at the state all three of those programs are in. It clearly proves that liberals can't run a damn thing. And now we have Barack Hussein ObamaBOY thinking he can run socialized healthcare. Bwahahahahahahahahhahaaaaa!
Liberals are friggin' IDIOTS!

 

[paperview]

Liberals do not do things for us. They do things to us!

Oh really?

40 hour week
Child labor laws
equal rights in the workplace
civil rights
gay rights

What did that do TO you?

Gays deserve no special rights whatsoever. They are nothing more than immoral, disgusting pigs. The only right they deserve is a place in the closet where the disgusting bastards belong, PERIOD!

Ain't gonna happen dude.

May as well get used to it.