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Good scripture reference, HC. It shows that it is not necessary for gentiles to convert to Judaism before they will be accepted by the Jewish Messiah. They just need to accept Christ, and that's all.
However, what I think RWA is concerned about is that certain sects of Jews want Christians to renounce Christianity all together as well as go backward in accepting the rule of the Law.
Do I have that right, RWA?
I think something similar to what you're saying is actually in the New Testament. Having trouble finding it right now--but I know it's there because I've read it before. -Nevermind, I found it in Acts- When the disciples are discussing whether or not gentiles have to convert to Judaism before they can become Christian, they decide that gentiles do not have to follow Jewish Laws--including the ten commandments--with four exceptions:
I'm guilty of fornicating and the blood thing--I like my steaks pretty rare. Other than that I'm a good gentile. :bj2:
Hagbard Celine: Excellent choice of scripture with your point.
Seems that word, "grace" really throws folks for a loop, even nowadays. There's this thing in us humans that makes us want to have some responsibility or credit for the good gifts that have been freely given to us.
"Unmerited Favor = Grace"
Our only involvement in this wonderful bestowment is our willing, "wills" to submit to and accept that we are weak and miniscule in the presence of our Creator.
I've yet to find the verse, "God helps those that help themselves.".We do need to cooperate, but often this quote is the "doer Christian's" mantra. It also often means that the Christian who lives by this motto, also doesn't wait on or surrender to, or ask for intervention from God before going, "head long, and head strong" into evangelism and other "brownie point" earning actions to get an "ata-boy" or "ata-girl" from God and their fellow Christian peers.
Relinquishing external and internal control:
This soulic position allows us to be fillable vessels, yet still leaky, and in need of refilling constantly at the altar of God through Christ our intermediator(prayer/submission/surrender).
I still find my most intriguing "read" is Romans of the N.T.. Paul really gets down to the nitty gritty of what it means to be a Christian. He systematically explains our new life in Christ, as a function of our total immersion into the crucified, ressurrected, and glorified life of Jesus. Our Old Man or Adamic life is left at the cross, and now we have this new life.
One small battle, yet it seems big.....we still have a very unredeemed body of flesh that still works against the very new nature that was given to us at our conversion. Paul goes into some very good first-hand detail in Romans chapter 7, as he referrs to himself as "Oh wretched man that I am....."......Yes the flesh is still a harbinger and propagator of sin if it ain't kept in restraint through constant reckoning of the truth of who we now are in Christ. Our inner man is safe, our outer man(flesh) is a battle ground.
How is it that we can yet be seated in the heavenlies yet still be physically on earth? Simple.......Christ's life seated at God's right hand in heaven is also the indwelling life(Holy Spirit/Comforter) that is in us as a gift, and pledge from God that we will not walk alone here on planet earth, even before we go to heaven.
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Wonderful book by a Multnomah Bible College, Portland, Ore., Professor by the name of David C. Needham. Title.. "Birthright: Christian, Do You Know Who You Are?".
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Hagbard Celine: Again, an excellent choice of scripture(Acts) in your response.
They do not wear their faith on their sleeve.
Would LOVE to rep you 8Ball, but I can't...
Focusing on conspiracies can DISTRACT a person from the RELATIONSHIP God wants to have with each one of us, so a person can "know the truth" yet never be saved.
From what I have seen in people who have a measure of it, great or small, grace is a process...continuous, ongoing. I see it in those who have internalized Christ's teachings and this is reflected in their daily lives. They are calm in the face of trials, they are forgiving of others, they render aid with no expectation of reward. They do not wear their faith on their sleeve. In short, they walk it like they talk it.
But you are correct in asserting that for many, grace is a case of unmerited favor. Particularly amongst the more strident voices we hear on the right wing fringes of religion in America today.
Are you offended by someone's free speech, or are you referring to something else?....
But you are correct in asserting that for many, grace is a case of unmerited favor. Particularly amongst the more strident voices we hear on the right wing fringes of religion in America today.
What's wrong with wearing your faith on your sleeve? Talking about your faith is not a forced conversion, like islam promotes. Why are you against free speech?
Jesus wants us to spread the good news.
RWA are you saved? Are you baptized in the name of the father, the son and the holy ghost? If not are you qualified to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ?
That's been the argument against people who misinterpret the Bible, which I'm pretty sure is what is in question here.Why would one have to be "saved" to talk about what the Bible says?
Why would one have to be "saved" to talk about what the Bible says?
Duhhhhhhhhhhh, its like a church hiring a pastor who himself has not accepted Christ through baptism which is demanded in the bible.
Its like you proselytizing to a group of muslims on the koran without being a muslim yourself.
Duhhhhhhhhhhh, its like a church hiring a pastor who himself has not accepted Christ through baptism which is demanded in the bible.
Its like you proselytizing to a group of muslims on the koran without being a muslim yourself.
So salvation means ignoring things? Maybe fighting terrorism is just a distraction from the relationship god wants us to have.
Nienna, ordinarily I wouldn't be this strident in raising the awareness of others, but these insane neocon christians are fighting for Israel based on a fuzzucked up version of christian theology.
Salvation doesn't happen until it happens. Until then, nobody is 'saved' from anything.
One thing where you willingly stumble is this: You are ignoring truth and believing conspiracy theory.
Noahidism is the orthodox teaching on how gentiles are to be absorbed into judaism. I'm sorry. It's not a conspiracy theory.
Research it yourself.
noahide
I appreciate your efforts but if I were you I would have quit wasting my time on this along time ago. Your're obviously the target and your efforts to focus on this issue appears to be in vain.
When I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you, or post a poll!
Noahidism is the orthodox teaching on how gentiles are to be absorbed into judaism. I'm sorry. It's not a conspiracy theory.
Research it yourself.
noahide
But who gives a rat's ass? I mean...REALLY? I could NOT care less if a "Gentile" were to convert to Judiasm. If YOU wanna circumsize your shit, grow a beard and become a businessman that's on YOU. Why do you feel the need to tell everyone OVER AND OVER AND OVER again that "OMG! Some people are going to convert to the jewish faith!! STOP THEM!!"
For the LAST TIME...
NOBODY CARES
