Welp s0ns....so much for electric vehicles!

Tesla delivers 25,418 vehicles in 2017’s first quarter as EV market grows

On Sunday Tesla said that it had delivered 25,418 cars in 2017’s first quarter, which is a record for the company. This sales figure puts Tesla on track to meet its stated goal of delivering 47,000 to 50,000 Model S and Model X vehicles in the first half of 2017.

FURTHER READING
30% of US buyers consider electric cars; only 3% buy. Can this change?The company’s electric vehicle (EV) deliveries have been closely watched after suffering manufacturing setbacks in 2015 and 2016 and repeatedly posting losses in quarterly financial reports. Last year, CEO Elon Musk made a point of talking about building the most efficient manufacturing process possible, calling Tesla’s factories “the machine that builds the machine.” Tesla had hoped to deliver 50,000 vehicles in the second half of 2016, but it just missed that goal—the company delivered 24,500 vehicles in Q3 and 22,200 vehicles in Q4, bringing its total to 46,700 for 2016’s second half.

Over 400,000 $1000 deposits on the Tesla 3. And I am betting that if you buy the hottest Tesla 3, it will give the Demon a run for it's money for less money.


For my daily transportation it comes down to cost per mile.

My daily driver is a 2004 with over 100,000 that I paid around $18K for.

And I have no range limitations.
I can run around in the mountains in the middle of nowhere with total freedom.


As for toys, I like cars that hold their value or increase, not an expensive depreciating EV

1968_Dodge_Coronet500.jpg
 
Tesla delivers 25,418 vehicles in 2017’s first quarter as EV market grows

On Sunday Tesla said that it had delivered 25,418 cars in 2017’s first quarter, which is a record for the company. This sales figure puts Tesla on track to meet its stated goal of delivering 47,000 to 50,000 Model S and Model X vehicles in the first half of 2017.

FURTHER READING
30% of US buyers consider electric cars; only 3% buy. Can this change?The company’s electric vehicle (EV) deliveries have been closely watched after suffering manufacturing setbacks in 2015 and 2016 and repeatedly posting losses in quarterly financial reports. Last year, CEO Elon Musk made a point of talking about building the most efficient manufacturing process possible, calling Tesla’s factories “the machine that builds the machine.” Tesla had hoped to deliver 50,000 vehicles in the second half of 2016, but it just missed that goal—the company delivered 24,500 vehicles in Q3 and 22,200 vehicles in Q4, bringing its total to 46,700 for 2016’s second half.

Over 400,000 $1000 deposits on the Tesla 3. And I am betting that if you buy the hottest Tesla 3, it will give the Demon a run for it's money for less money.


Ray.......drag strip ability is hardly the only reason you buy a car.

And even if Tesla sells on every order ( it wont ), total EV sales will be about what at best? 1/2 a million? Ford alone sells more F150 pickup trucks than that each year.......just F150's!!:2up: The numbers you are talking are about like how many Kansas City Royal fans will be in Fenway Park tonight ( and the Royals aren't playing the Red Sox :eusa_dance: )
 
A lot of battery disinformation goes on in these pages........much theory abounds. Heres the thing.......in 10 years, electric cars will have a larger share of the market than today, but will still be a fringe market. Think about it.....if you are a truck guy with a gun to your head trying to make deadlines on contracts, are you going to buy a truck that might die in the field or worse, you'd have to go find a station to charge at. Truck guys cant afford and wont take a chance at that.................100% certainty. Some just don't consider the practical aspects of electric vs conventionally powered vehicles. Next time you see an F150 Ford truck guy, go up and ask him if he'd switch to an electric truck!!:2up::eusa_dance::eusa_dance:
 
A lot of battery disinformation goes on in these pages........much theory abounds. Heres [sic] the thing.......in 10 years, electric cars will have a larger share of the market than today, but will still be a fringe market. Think about it.....if you are a truck guy with a gun to your head trying to make deadlines on contracts, are you going to buy a truck that might die in the field or worse, you'd have to go find a station to charge at. Truck guys cant afford and wont take a chance at that.................100% certainty. Some just don't consider the practical aspects of electric vs conventionally powered vehicles. Next time you see an F150 Ford truck guy, go up and ask him if he'd switch to an electric truck!!:2up::eusa_dance::eusa_dance:

I can more easily see a place for commercial trucks that are electric, than for more conventionally-sized automobiles.

The big issue, of course, is for the vehicle to be able to carry enough stored energy to go a reasonable distance at a time, and to be able to quickly replenish that energy.

When you get up to the scale of a commercial truck, meant to carry a large amount of cargo, I can see giving up some of that cargo capacity in order to carry enough batteries to allow the necessary range. Perhaps we're not too far from the point where there may be an economic advantage to this trade-off as opposed to a diesel truck.

Also, on vehicles of that scale, I can more easily see them being designed to allow relatively quick and easy replacement of the batteries. Instead of waiting around for many hours to have one's batteries recharged (likely taking more time to charge the batteries between legs of a trip than one gets to spend actually driving), I could see an electric truck pulling into a stop, someone driving up with a forklift and removing the spent batteries, and replacing them with freshly-charged batteries in a matter of minutes.
 
A lot of battery disinformation goes on in these pages........much theory abounds. Heres the thing.......in 10 years, electric cars will have a larger share of the market than today, but will still be a fringe market. Think about it.....if you are a truck guy with a gun to your head trying to make deadlines on contracts, are you going to buy a truck that might die in the field or worse, you'd have to go find a station to charge at. Truck guys cant afford and wont take a chance at that.................100% certainty. Some just don't consider the practical aspects of electric vs conventionally powered vehicles. Next time you see an F150 Ford truck guy, go up and ask him if he'd switch to an electric truck!!:2up::eusa_dance::eusa_dance:
In 1965, had you asked an American driver if he would give up his big tank, you would have gotten the same answer. Now look at the cars on the freeway. And now, what took a generation then takes less than 1/2 that now. The pace of change continues to accelerate.
 
And that Camaro will eat nothing but dust from the high end Tesla 3.


Put the money into the Camaro that you would sink into the Tesla and you would have a Camaro that would run a sub 10 second quarter mile, leaving the Tesla in the dust and it wouldn't leave you looking for a wall outlet after 200 miles...and just for fun, compare the value of that Camaro to the projected value of a Tesla of the same age....electrics are a joke and will never become transportation for the common man...they are toys for the self hating rich and will not likely ever be anything else.
 
Well, the battery in your fork lift was almost certainly a lead acid battery. The present lithium ion batteries far surpass that battery in energy density. Still well below that of gasoline, however. The same engineer that developed the lithium ion battery has now helped develop a sodium battery that has three to four times the energy density of the lithium ion. Cheaper, faster charging, no chance of explosions, and getting near to the energy density of gasoline.

But the batteries do not have to match the energy density of gasoline to be superior in usable energy to gasoline. When you go down a hill, or take your foot off of the gas, an ICE just continues to put gasoline into the motor. And EV puts electricity back into the battery. That makes a big difference.
you mean the car can explode?
 
And that Camaro will eat nothing but dust from the high end Tesla 3.


Put the money into the Camaro that you would sink into the Tesla and you would have a Camaro that would run a sub 10 second quarter mile, leaving the Tesla in the dust and it wouldn't leave you looking for a wall outlet after 200 miles...and just for fun, compare the value of that Camaro to the projected value of a Tesla of the same age....electrics are a joke and will never become transportation for the common man...they are toys for the self hating rich and will not likely ever be anything else.
SSo DDumb, you put enough money into that Camaro to get under ten seconds, and it will nearly undrivable in a Safeway parking lot. In the meantime, all the Tesla's, even the hottest one, will be silky smooth in normal environments, and still show their tail lights to almost everything else on the highway.
 
SSo DDumb, you put enough money into that Camaro to get under ten seconds, and it will nearly undrivable in a Safeway parking lot. In the meantime, all the Tesla's, even the hottest one, will be silky smooth in normal environments, and still show their tail lights to almost everything else on the highway.

Clearly you were never a hot rodder in your youth....I have owned two sub 10 second camaros in my life and both were daily drivers...hell, I had two sub 10 second volkswagen beetles which were also daily drivers...

Your electrics are a pipe dream....they would lose a cross country race to a 1997 ford escort hands down.
 


Not long from now, EV's will dominate this kind of track.

how are they going to go 400 miles or 500 miles?


Mjg3MTUxMA.jpeg

Photo: Cockrell School of Engineering
John Goodenough, coinventor of the lithium-ion battery, heads a team of researchers developing the technology that could one day supplant it.


Electric car purchases have been on the rise lately, posting an estimated 60 percent growth rate last year. They’re poised for rapid adoption by 2022, when EVs are projected to cost the same as internal combustion cars. However, these estimates all presume the incumbent lithium-ion battery remains the go-to EV power source. So, when researchers this week at the University of Texas at Austin unveiled a new, promising lithium- or sodium-glass battery technology, it threatened to accelerate even rosy projections for battery-powered cars.

“I think we have the possibility of doing what we’ve been trying to do for the last 20 years,” says John Goodenough, coinventor of the now ubiquitous lithium-ion battery and emeritus professor at the Cockrell School of Engineering at the University of Texas, Austin. “That is, to get an electric car that will be competitive in cost and convenience with the internal combustion engine.” Goodenough added that this new battery technology could also store intermittent solar and wind power on the electric grid.

Yet, the world has seen alleged game-changing battery breakthroughs come to naught before. In 2014, for instance, Japanese researchers offered up a cotton-based (!) new battery design that was touted as “energy dense, reliable, safe, and sustainable.” And if the cotton battery is still going to change the world, its promoters could certainly use a new wave of press and media releases, as an Internet search on their technology today produces links that are no more current than 2014-2015 vintage.

So, on whose authority might one claim a glass battery could be any different?

For starters, Donald Sadoway’s. Sadoway, a preeminent battery researcher and MIT materials science and engineering professor, says, “When John Goodenough makes an announcement, I pay attention. He’s tops in the field and really a fantastic scientist. So, his pronouncements are worth listening to.”

Will a New Glass Battery Accelerate the End of Oil?

Two to four times as much energy density with cheap sodium, much more than that with lithium.

Growth rate of EV purchases at 60%. And, within five years, the price of the EV's expected to be on the par with ICE vehicles. And that is with the present expensive lithium-ion batteries. Should someone start manufacture the sodium batteries, that price will be below comparable ICE vehicles. And if that someone is Tesla, you are going to see a very rapid increase in the sales of EV's, and EV's competing in every segment of the automotive market.
 
SSo DDumb, you put enough money into that Camaro to get under ten seconds, and it will nearly undrivable in a Safeway parking lot. In the meantime, all the Tesla's, even the hottest one, will be silky smooth in normal environments, and still show their tail lights to almost everything else on the highway.

Clearly you were never a hot rodder in your youth....I have owned two sub 10 second camaros in my life and both were daily drivers...hell, I had two sub 10 second volkswagen beetles which were also daily drivers...

Your electrics are a pipe dream....they would lose a cross country race to a 1997 ford escort hands down.
LOL Yes, I have driven several 'hot rods', and built a couple myself. They were not enjoyable to drive at low speeds at all. And the engine at those speeds were tearing themselves up.

Your predictions for the future of the EV's is just as valid as your smart photons.
 
LOL Yes, I have driven several 'hot rods', and built a couple myself. They were not enjoyable to drive at low speeds at all. And the engine at those speeds were tearing themselves up.

Then you were never any good at it....not surprising....especially if your engines were tearing themselves up at low RPM...

Your predictions for the future of the EV's is just as valid as your smart photons.

And yet....every observation and measurement ever made supports my position regarding the movement of energy.
 


Not long from now, EV's will dominate this kind of track.

how are they going to go 400 miles or 500 miles?


Mjg3MTUxMA.jpeg

Photo: Cockrell School of Engineering
John Goodenough, coinventor of the lithium-ion battery, heads a team of researchers developing the technology that could one day supplant it.


Electric car purchases have been on the rise lately, posting an estimated 60 percent growth rate last year. They’re poised for rapid adoption by 2022, when EVs are projected to cost the same as internal combustion cars. However, these estimates all presume the incumbent lithium-ion battery remains the go-to EV power source. So, when researchers this week at the University of Texas at Austin unveiled a new, promising lithium- or sodium-glass battery technology, it threatened to accelerate even rosy projections for battery-powered cars.

“I think we have the possibility of doing what we’ve been trying to do for the last 20 years,” says John Goodenough, coinventor of the now ubiquitous lithium-ion battery and emeritus professor at the Cockrell School of Engineering at the University of Texas, Austin. “That is, to get an electric car that will be competitive in cost and convenience with the internal combustion engine.” Goodenough added that this new battery technology could also store intermittent solar and wind power on the electric grid.

Yet, the world has seen alleged game-changing battery breakthroughs come to naught before. In 2014, for instance, Japanese researchers offered up a cotton-based (!) new battery design that was touted as “energy dense, reliable, safe, and sustainable.” And if the cotton battery is still going to change the world, its promoters could certainly use a new wave of press and media releases, as an Internet search on their technology today produces links that are no more current than 2014-2015 vintage.

So, on whose authority might one claim a glass battery could be any different?

For starters, Donald Sadoway’s. Sadoway, a preeminent battery researcher and MIT materials science and engineering professor, says, “When John Goodenough makes an announcement, I pay attention. He’s tops in the field and really a fantastic scientist. So, his pronouncements are worth listening to.”

Will a New Glass Battery Accelerate the End of Oil?

Two to four times as much energy density with cheap sodium, much more than that with lithium.

Growth rate of EV purchases at 60%. And, within five years, the price of the EV's expected to be on the par with ICE vehicles. And that is with the present expensive lithium-ion batteries. Should someone start manufacture the sodium batteries, that price will be below comparable ICE vehicles. And if that someone is Tesla, you are going to see a very rapid increase in the sales of EV's, and EV's competing in every segment of the automotive market.

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Well, the battery in your fork lift was almost certainly a lead acid battery. The present lithium ion batteries far surpass that battery in energy density. Still well below that of gasoline, however. The same engineer that developed the lithium ion battery has now helped develop a sodium battery that has three to four times the energy density of the lithium ion. Cheaper, faster charging, no chance of explosions, and getting near to the energy density of gasoline.

But the batteries do not have to match the energy density of gasoline to be superior in usable energy to gasoline. When you go down a hill, or take your foot off of the gas, an ICE just continues to put gasoline into the motor. And EV puts electricity back into the battery. That makes a big difference.
you mean the car can explode?

I had an extended cell phone battery, of the lithium-ion variety, that was swelling up so that it would not fit in the phone. Up until the point that it would no longer fit well enough to make proper electrical contact, it was performing just fine. I was thinking that perhaps there was some gas pressure built up in it, and that if I cut into it just a little bit, to vent that pressure, it would shrink back down and fit, and I'd be able to continue using it.

I learned a frightening and dangerous lesson, that day, about lithium-ion batteries. Fortunately, no serious harm was done, other than to the battery, but I was treated to a rather spectacular display of pyrotechnics and smoke.

I have a couple more of these batteries, in similar condition, along with an intent, one of these days, to do the same to them, but under much more controlled conditions, and with my camera recording video of the event.

I can imagine that car-sized lithium-ion batteries might produce a very spectacular result, in the event of a serious collision.
 
Lets set the record straight about the fastest time on the Nurburgring Nordschleife.
In 1983 a Porsche 956 lapped the Nordschleife in 6:11, the rest of the Porsche 956s came in at 6:27, 6:32 and 6:39.
Nobody to date managed to break this record!

This silly EV that OldRocks is bragging about is a dead duck after 1 lap of the 13 mile Nordschleife while a 956 has no problem coming out on top after a 1000 km race.
There are only 7 of these EVs and they are not even street legal but there are even today Porsche 956s roaming the Autobahn.
 
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Well, the battery in your fork lift was almost certainly a lead acid battery. The present lithium ion batteries far surpass that battery in energy density. Still well below that of gasoline, however. The same engineer that developed the lithium ion battery has now helped develop a sodium battery that has three to four times the energy density of the lithium ion. Cheaper, faster charging, no chance of explosions, and getting near to the energy density of gasoline.

But the batteries do not have to match the energy density of gasoline to be superior in usable energy to gasoline. When you go down a hill, or take your foot off of the gas, an ICE just continues to put gasoline into the motor. And EV puts electricity back into the battery. That makes a big difference.
you mean the car can explode?

I had an extended cell phone battery, of the lithium-ion variety, that was swelling up so that it would not fit in the phone. Up until the point that it would no longer fit well enough to make proper electrical contact, it was performing just fine. I was thinking that perhaps there was some gas pressure built up in it, and that if I cut into it just a little bit, to vent that pressure, it would shrink back down and fit, and I'd be able to continue using it.

I learned a frightening and dangerous lesson, that day, about lithium-ion batteries. Fortunately, no serious harm was done, other than to the battery, but I was treated to a rather spectacular display of pyrotechnics and smoke.

I have a couple more of these batteries, in similar condition, along with an intent, one of these days, to do the same to them, but under much more controlled conditions, and with my camera recording video of the event.

I can imagine that car-sized lithium-ion batteries might produce a very spectacular result, in the event of a serious collision.
Well, seems your imagination is over worked.

Number of Tesla Fire-Related Deaths Per Year Equals What? | Inside EVs

The billion electric mile mark comparison (updated February 2014)

The 50,000+ Chevrolet Volts now have over 390,000,000+ electric miles and 625,000,000+ total miles driven, the 100,000+ Nissan LEAFs now have over 420,000,000+ electric miles driven, and the 30,000+ Tesla Model S sedans have over 125,000,000+ miles driven. With the remaining Ford Energi series, Toyota PiP and other combined plug-in models, we are well over one billion electric miles driven.


Fisker Fire

With these new so-called experimental vehicles, we have nowhere near the 90 vehicle fires per billion miles caused in ICEs, no deaths, and nowhere near the fire related injuries.

Of those 4 brands with the most miles driven; the Chevrolet Volt recorded the first famous fire when obliterated by the NHSTA in a parking lot due to a failure to discharge the battery after crash testing. This would be equal to leaving gas in the tank of a crashed vehicle which NHSTA NEVER does so we count this one with an asterisk. Of the billion combined miles of the LEAF, Volt, and Ford Energi series, no fires have broken out for customers while parked, driving, charging or collisions of these plug-ins.

As for the five Model S fires in question, the true cause of one is still under investigation, but with well over 125,000,000 Tesla miles, we would still need 11 Tesla fires to equal the fires of the tried and true Internal Combustion Engine.

One should always strive for complete safety, but does the data not speak for itself when it comes to which type vehicle is the safest? As for the question of deaths, the Model S received it’s first fatality with a stolen Model S that was ripped in half at the end of a high speed police chase in July 2014. The victim was thrown from the vehicle and later died from the injuries suffered in the collision
 

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