Well, Waddya Know!

[Annie]

Diplomacy through strength being touted by Qaddafi:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...ml&sSheet=/portal/2003/12/24/ixportaltop.html

Follow my lead, Gaddafi urges 'rogue' states
By David Rennie in Washington
(Filed: 24/12/2003)


Col Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, called yesterday on other "rogue states" to follow his dramatic example, by admitting involvement in banned weapons programmes, if they were to prevent "tragedy" from striking their nations.

He sidestepped direct questions about whether the war in Iraq had influenced his decision to scrap nuclear, biological and chemical research, saying his motives were "not important".

But his stark warning to other "rogue" states appeared to offer endorsement of Washington's and London's policy of diplomacy backed by pre-emptive strikes.

Asked if he had a message for other leaders, especially the heads of Syria, Iran and North Korea, he replied: "They should follow the steps of Libya, or take an example from Libya, so that they prevent any tragedy being inflicted upon their own peoples."

He went on to accuse Israel of harbouring illicit weapons, saying a wholesale disarmament in the Muslim world "would tighten the rope or the noose around the Israelis, so they would expose their programmes and their weapons of mass destruction".

Col Gaddafi was speaking to CNN television in a Bedouin tent near Tripoli. He summoned the US news channel unexpectedly three days after the world learned of nine months of secret disarmament talks between Libya, Britain and the United States.

Col Gaddafi denied that he possessed weapons of mass destruction, saying only that Libya possessed "certain machines" and research programmes. "We have not these weapons," he said, adding that his research projects "would have been for peaceful purposes - but nevertheless we decided to get rid of them completely."

Britain and the United States say that Libya had confessed that it was closer than thought to producing enriched uranium, suitable for use in an atomic bomb. It also possesses chemical weapons.

Col Gaddafi has not lost all his fiery rhetoric, telling critics of his weapons programmes: "You exercise terrorist policy against the Libyan people by accusing us."

But he repeated his vow that international inspectors would be allowed to conduct snap visits to the formerly closed North African nation, saying they would learn "we don't have anything to hide".

Sometimes speaking in English, he seemed at pains to reach out to Britain and the United States, insisting that his country was not a terrorist sponsor, and expressing hopes for a new era of Anglo-American commercial ties.

British and American officials have not hesitated to credit the allies' tough line on Iraq for Libya's decision and believe the effect may spread.

The Telegraph reported on Monday that Mr Blair hoped to use the Libyan breakthrough to step up secret talks to secure similar concessions on weapons of mass destruction.

The lifting of US sanctions on Libya is the top priority for Col Gaddafi, who earlier this year paved the way for a re-opening of ties when he agreed to take responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing in 1988.

US oil companies were leading players in the Libyan oil industry until 1986, when they were ordered out of the country by President Ronald Reagan. Marathon, Amerada Hess and ConocoPhillips jointly hold permits to develop the huge Waha field.

Most of those permits expire in 2005, raising fears among US oil executives that their rights could be transferred to European firms.

Col Gaddafi said that he had told Mr Blair that pictures of a dishevelled and disorientated Saddam "made everybody sympathise with him".


22 December 2003: Iran and Syria are next to feel the heat
21 December 2003: America sets sights on disarming remaining 'rogue states'
20 December 2003: Libya agrees to dismantle all its WMD
13 August 2003: Libya to pay out £6m for each Lockerbie victim


Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of Telegraph Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright

 

[Johnney]

Ladies and gentleman, the new pup....spokesman for the US.... Libya!!

Not to sound conspiracy minded, but theres something about this that doesnt sound right. how much did we bribe them with?

 

[Annie]

I think with his life. Don't forget, Reagan nearly got him, killed one of his children. He was on the list and knew it, took the better offering. You do realize Saddam would still be in Iraq, if he had done the same?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Follow my lead, Gaddafi urges 'rogue' states
By David Rennie in Washington
(Filed: 24/12/2003)

....US oil companies were leading players in the Libyan oil industry until 1986, when they were ordered out of the country by President Ronald Reagan. Marathon, Amerada Hess and ConocoPhillips jointly hold permits to develop the huge Waha field.

Most of those permits expire in 2005, raising fears among US oil executives that their rights could be transferred to European firms....

I can hear it now "Just a move for Bush to help his oil buddies to expand their businesses before the permits expire"

 

[Annie]

Good point. I have noticed a certain tendency to selective deafness on his part.

 

[Isaac Brock]

But hey, diplomacy worked that's all that's important. Good for everyone!

 

[Annie]

Issac, that was in response to a 'real' threat of war, as demonstrated close to home, in Iraq. That is what the UNSC failed to recognize. Diplomacy's best chance is when it is back by more than trying to 'appease.'

 

[DKSuddeth]

of course, point enough guns at anyone and they will do whatever you need them to, most of the time.

 

[Annie]

Suppose so, though it didn't work on either major player during the Cold War. Since we don't have a penchant for pointing weapons around, while keeping our quiver stocked however, I don't think it's a problem, except for those that would like us to disarm. Not going to happen.

If you want peace, be prepared for war....as DK just said,

point enough guns at anyone and they will do whatever you need them to, most of the time.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
But hey, diplomacy worked that's all that's important. Good for everyone!

I'm not terribly sure that it was diplomacy rather than the missile that killed his kid years ago and his fear of us doing it again as we've done to terrorists in the middle east. Don't get me wrong, I am all for diplomatic solutions, but I can't think of a single resolution that would have occured without the threat of what could happen if they don't work.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Issac, that was in response to a 'real' threat of war, as demonstrated close to home, in Iraq. That is what the UNSC failed to recognize. Diplomacy's best chance is when it is back by more than trying to 'appease.'

I disagree, Libya wasn't lately under any military threat. In fact, in the last few years Libya has tried to shed its pariah state image, starting by the compensation for those lost in the airplane terrorist attacks. Kadaffi's has been mellowing his anti-US rhetoric no almost a warming status since 1999, where he began raprochement by delivering terrorists suspects to the US. It also cut off all support to the IRA, which had previously a huge link. I think if you look at it a bit further, Libya has started the rapproachment for quite sometime now. Why? Maybe out of fear, but most most likely out of economic reasons. Libya's poor and desperately needs foreign capital to improve its infrastructure.

You may be right that the Iraq war catalyzed the most recent development in respect to the WMD. However, I would definitely say it would be innacurate to state that it was solely to cover its ass from a US invasion.

 

[nbdysfu]

The international community gave up its sanctions months ago. The only country whose business partners did not have access to Libya was the US, which maintained its own sanctions. I guess you could argue that a significant number of us businesses owned rights to many of Libya's oil sites, and also it has been stated that US oil has better drilling tech. Without the US and Britain pushing for more, all those sanctions wouldn't have been worth anything more than some money and an apology for the airline bombings.

If even the Cairo AFP agrees US and British effort was key...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...east_afp/libya_britain_us_visits_031224143406
Kadhafi son says US committed to protecting Libya
...
Islam said Washington had "committed itself to protecting us from any sort of attack" and that there had been "consultations to conclude security and military accords that would lead to joint military maneuvers in the future."


American military officials "will come to Libya soon to apprise themselves of its military protection requirements," he added.


Last Friday, Libya won plaudits from the international community, including longtime foes London and Washington, with a surprise announcement that it was renouncing longstanding efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction.


Blair described the announcement, which followed nine months of secret talks between Libya and Britain and the United States, as "courageous" and "historic".


Bush said the move by Libya, long a pariah on the world stage, would help bolster security worldwide, adding that Libya had begun "the process of rejoining the community of nations".


Referring to Tripoli's decision, Islam said factories for the production of missiles, mostly Scud-Bs with a range of 300 kilometres (185 miles) that had been built jointly with the former Soviet Union and North Korea (news - web sites) "will not be dismantled or destroyed."


However, he reaffirmed that "programs for the production of chemical, biological and nuclear arms would stop," except those that are for defensive purposes and which will be submitted to "international surveillance."
...

 

[Sevendogs]

I would rather see Osama bin Laden to follow his wonderful example. Without Soviet Union, Quadaffi was no longer a serious threat.

 

[jon_forward]

Do you suppose that there is a link between Libya and Iraq or other rogue nations? Is it possable that Libya may have thought that once Iraq is in order that they would be next? only time will tell, interesting thought?

 

[Annie]

Jon they just won't address that issue. Diplomacy without strength has only resulted in eventual problems if not catastrophe.

I'm unsure of an example of a proven stronger power, responding to a weaker power with well meant diplomacy, where eventually agreement couldn't be reached. Emphasis is on well-meant on both sides, the strong cannot just try to 'bully' or 'bludgeon' the lesser, that is not diplomacy.

We didn't have to say 'Qaddafi nice' or 'bombs away.' So I hope we all hope that NK will look at this example, or even sooner, since they are closer, Syria and Iran.