We should be at 7.5% unemployment

[asterism]

I use a credit union, which will still issue letters of credit AND personal loans. The "investors" are the depositors--which is the way it should be.

I'm not sure you understand what I'm talking about, otherwise you would know that credit unions have never given businesses operating lines of credit that they cannot collateralize or sell. Draw up a plan to open a used car lot (used cars are in higher demand than new ones right now) and see if the credit union will loan you $200K to start it.

Not true, and that's because at least a portion of the money in a letter of credit has been deposited. Funny you should mention a used car business, because that's what my brother-in-law has. I'm not sure if he still uses a credit union, but he did when car sales were booming. Now he's gone strictly to used trucks and snow removal equipment. When he did use the credit union, he initially had to put up the whole deposit to work against (his payroll, etc.), but after he established reliability and a good sales record as well, he then got extensions which were financed by the credit union. Usually with a letter of credit, the credit union, or any bank, isn't looking at any collateral.

Ask him who owned the cars if he didn't pay.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm talking about, otherwise you would know that credit unions have never given businesses operating lines of credit that they cannot collateralize or sell. Draw up a plan to open a used car lot (used cars are in higher demand than new ones right now) and see if the credit union will loan you $200K to start it.

Not true, and that's because at least a portion of the money in a letter of credit has been deposited. Funny you should mention a used car business, because that's what my brother-in-law has. I'm not sure if he still uses a credit union, but he did when car sales were booming. Now he's gone strictly to used trucks and snow removal equipment. When he did use the credit union, he initially had to put up the whole deposit to work against (his payroll, etc.), but after he established reliability and a good sales record as well, he then got extensions which were financed by the credit union. Usually with a letter of credit, the credit union, or any bank, isn't looking at any collateral.

Ask him who owned the cars if he didn't pay.

He did. And took the loss when they didn't sell. In 2009, they didn't, and he took a huge loss. Your point?

Letter of Credit - How Letters of Credit Work

A letter of credit is a promise to pay. Banks issue letters of credit as a way to ensure sellers that they will get paid as long as they do what they've agreed to do.
Letters of credit are common in international trade because the bank acts as an uninterested party between buyer and seller. For example, importers and exporters might use letters of credit to protect themselves.

 

[asterism]

Not true, and that's because at least a portion of the money in a letter of credit has been deposited. Funny you should mention a used car business, because that's what my brother-in-law has. I'm not sure if he still uses a credit union, but he did when car sales were booming. Now he's gone strictly to used trucks and snow removal equipment. When he did use the credit union, he initially had to put up the whole deposit to work against (his payroll, etc.), but after he established reliability and a good sales record as well, he then got extensions which were financed by the credit union. Usually with a letter of credit, the credit union, or any bank, isn't looking at any collateral.

Ask him who owned the cars if he didn't pay.

He did. And took the loss when they didn't sell. In 2009, they didn't, and he took a huge loss. Your point?

Who owns the cars if he can't pay the credit union or the seller?

Letter of Credit - How Letters of Credit Work

A letter of credit is a promise to pay. Banks issue letters of credit as a way to ensure sellers that they will get paid as long as they do what they've agreed to do.
Letters of credit are common in international trade because the bank acts as an uninterested party between buyer and seller. For example, importers and exporters might use letters of credit to protect themselves.

Whereas I was talking about lines of credit for operating capital. Business Loan, Unsecured Lines Of Credit, Small Business Loans

Do you understand the difference?

 

[MaggieMae]

Ask him who owned the cars if he didn't pay.

He did. And took the loss when they didn't sell. In 2009, they didn't, and he took a huge loss. Your point?

Who owns the cars if he can't pay the credit union or the seller?

Letter of Credit - How Letters of Credit Work

A letter of credit is a promise to pay. Banks issue letters of credit as a way to ensure sellers that they will get paid as long as they do what they've agreed to do.
Letters of credit are common in international trade because the bank acts as an uninterested party between buyer and seller. For example, importers and exporters might use letters of credit to protect themselves.

Whereas I was talking about lines of credit for operating capital. Business Loan, Unsecured Lines Of Credit, Small Business Loans

Do you understand the difference?

Yes, I do, and that's the kind of line of credit I'm talking about, too. My BIL and his sons came up with cash and personal loans to buy a few cars at auction; then they went to the credit union with a business plan. (I did forget to mention that they had help from the SBA, which I don't think enough small businesses take advantage of.) They did have to put up some cash at the outset which they drew against, and in less than a year, they were able to get the bank loan they needed in the form of a letter of credit for operating expenses. I don't know how much clearer I can get. I don't know what his financial arrangements are today as a result of changing over to trucks and snowplows, but I do know that he sold the remaining used car inventory almost at cost and the bank didn't lose a thing. I know because I got first pick--a 2002 Chevy Prism, which is the best car I've ever owned, bar none, by the way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Horsecrap, guys. The folks who know say our unemployment would be 50% higher than what it is now without the actions of Bush and Obama in 2008 and 2009. You have absolutely nothing to counter that, absolutely nothing.

 

[asterism]

He did. And took the loss when they didn't sell. In 2009, they didn't, and he took a huge loss. Your point?

Who owns the cars if he can't pay the credit union or the seller?

Letter of Credit - How Letters of Credit Work

Whereas I was talking about lines of credit for operating capital. Business Loan, Unsecured Lines Of Credit, Small Business Loans

Do you understand the difference?

Yes, I do, and that's the kind of line of credit I'm talking about, too. My BIL and his sons came up with cash and personal loans to buy a few cars at auction; then they went to the credit union with a business plan. (I did forget to mention that they had help from the SBA, which I don't think enough small businesses take advantage of.) They did have to put up some cash at the outset which they drew against, and in less than a year, they were able to get the bank loan they needed in the form of a letter of credit for operating expenses. I don't know how much clearer I can get. I don't know what his financial arrangements are today as a result of changing over to trucks and snowplows, but I do know that he sold the remaining used car inventory almost at cost and the bank didn't lose a thing. I know because I got first pick--a 2002 Chevy Prism, which is the best car I've ever owned, bar none, by the way.

There is no letter of credit for operating capital, that's a line of credit. Also, you have demonstrated only that the was able to get a loan after he was already up and running which is completely different than my point about access to capital for new businesses or new divisions. These areas are the purview of private investors, which now have to operate according to the rules banks and credit unions use.

 

[asterism]

Horsecrap, guys. The folks who know say our unemployment would be 50% higher than what it is now without the actions of Bush and Obama in 2008 and 2009. You have absolutely nothing to counter that, absolutely nothing.

Who are these "folks who know?" Are they the same ones that completely misread the state of the economy when they made the predictions that didn't pan out? Looks like they didn't know too much after all.

 

[william the wie]

A) Obama reappointed Bernancke and moved Geithner to the Treasury from the NY Fed presidency. If he had shuffled around the portfolios of Paulson and Cox he would have kept the entire team that presided over the meltdown but he did keep the two stars of the team.

B) Cash for Clunkers, first time homeowners tax credit and most of the rest of his legislative agenda have made the economy worse as in housing prices have gone into a death spiral of lower prices while the supply of houses has been constricted by foreclosure gate according to October Case-Shiller numbers.

C) He diddled with HCR while the economy crashed and burned.

D) He has ignored or at least not addressed PIIGS and the Far East real estate bubble which means the US will have a temporary up tick by convention time. The US is still the best of the worst but it will not aid him come the election.

Whether the above decisions were the least bad decisions possible given partisan and national politics I don't know I do know Obama will have to do everything right and get a lot of breaks to get reelected.

 

[loosecannon]

Horsecrap, guys. The folks who know say our unemployment would be 50% higher than what it is now without the actions of Bush and Obama in 2008 and 2009. You have absolutely nothing to counter that, absolutely nothing.

Who are these "folks who know?" Are they the same ones that completely misread the state of the economy when they made the predictions that didn't pan out? Looks like they didn't know too much after all.

A fucking men!

Those that assume a far worse event would have occurred if not for....are just pulling shit out of their ass. We don't and can't know as much.

 

[loosecannon]

A) Obama reappointed Bernancke and moved Geithner to the Treasury from the NY Fed presidency. If he had shuffled around the portfolios of Paulson and Cox he would have kept the entire team that presided over the meltdown but he did keep the two stars of the team.

B) Cash for Clunkers, first time homeowners tax credit and most of the rest of his legislative agenda have made the economy worse as in housing prices have gone into a death spiral of lower prices while the supply of houses has been constricted by foreclosure gate according to October Case-Shiller numbers.

C) He diddled with HCR while the economy crashed and burned.

D) He has ignored or at least not addressed PIIGS and the Far East real estate bubble which means the US will have a temporary up tick by convention time. The US is still the best of the worst but it will not aid him come the election.

Whether the above decisions were the least bad decisions possible given partisan and national politics I don't know I do know Obama will have to do everything right and get a lot of breaks to get reelected.

Unfortunately you betray a vital weakness in our system.

Getting re elected trumps doing a good job in said position.

Let the nation slide slowly into paralysis or dysfunction, but make damned sure that I get re elected!

 

[william the wie]

Horsecrap, guys. The folks who know say our unemployment would be 50% higher than what it is now without the actions of Bush and Obama in 2008 and 2009. You have absolutely nothing to counter that, absolutely nothing.

Who are these "folks who know?" Are they the same ones that completely misread the state of the economy when they made the predictions that didn't pan out? Looks like they didn't know too much after all.

A fucking men!

Those that assume a far worse event would have occurred if not for....are just pulling shit out of their ass. We don't and can't know as much.

Perhaps they should attempt head extraction instead?

 

[william the wie]

A) Obama reappointed Bernancke and moved Geithner to the Treasury from the NY Fed presidency. If he had shuffled around the portfolios of Paulson and Cox he would have kept the entire team that presided over the meltdown but he did keep the two stars of the team.

B) Cash for Clunkers, first time homeowners tax credit and most of the rest of his legislative agenda have made the economy worse as in housing prices have gone into a death spiral of lower prices while the supply of houses has been constricted by foreclosure gate according to October Case-Shiller numbers.

C) He diddled with HCR while the economy crashed and burned.

D) He has ignored or at least not addressed PIIGS and the Far East real estate bubble which means the US will have a temporary up tick by convention time. The US is still the best of the worst but it will not aid him come the election.

Whether the above decisions were the least bad decisions possible given partisan and national politics I don't know I do know Obama will have to do everything right and get a lot of breaks to get reelected.

Unfortunately you betray a vital weakness in our system.

Getting re elected trumps doing a good job in said position.

Let the nation slide slowly into paralysis or dysfunction, but make damned sure that I get re elected!

Another perhaps greater weakness is the party primary system that brings out the radicals of both major parties and forces candidates to fight long dead battles as with HCR.

 

[bag]

Remember this?

We should be at 7.5% unemployment right now. Remember before all this "in the ditch" nonsense was created, the above chart says what the Obama Economic team said would happen. They assured us they were the best experts on the planet, and they assured us that the Stimulus plan would work.

Remember this, it didn't. Unemployment is at 9.6% and despite all the predictions, rhetoric, and excuses, it's still flat at a rate higher than what they said it would be if we agreed to their plan.

Another key thing they got wrong is the time they expected things to get better with or without the Stimulus. Early in the 4th quarter of 2010 the unemployment rate was predicted to go down with or without the Stimulus and yet it's still flat. Obviously we'll never know if it would have gone down without the Stimulus, but it's clear that they were wrong on the results and wrong on the timeline. Remember this whenever Obama and his economic team decide to change things because "we can't stay on the current course." Keep the current course and get out of the way, it's obvious he can't make things better and I propose we consider that they actually made things worse.

a miscalculation by the economic advisors for sure. then again, would you like 15% unemployment?

 

[asterism]

Remember this?

We should be at 7.5% unemployment right now. Remember before all this "in the ditch" nonsense was created, the above chart says what the Obama Economic team said would happen. They assured us they were the best experts on the planet, and they assured us that the Stimulus plan would work.

Remember this, it didn't. Unemployment is at 9.6% and despite all the predictions, rhetoric, and excuses, it's still flat at a rate higher than what they said it would be if we agreed to their plan.

Another key thing they got wrong is the time they expected things to get better with or without the Stimulus. Early in the 4th quarter of 2010 the unemployment rate was predicted to go down with or without the Stimulus and yet it's still flat. Obviously we'll never know if it would have gone down without the Stimulus, but it's clear that they were wrong on the results and wrong on the timeline. Remember this whenever Obama and his economic team decide to change things because "we can't stay on the current course." Keep the current course and get out of the way, it's obvious he can't make things better and I propose we consider that they actually made things worse.

a miscalculation by the economic advisors for sure. then again, would you like 15% unemployment?

No. Was that a concern?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Horsecrap, guys. The folks who know say our unemployment would be 50% higher than what it is now without the actions of Bush and Obama in 2008 and 2009. You have absolutely nothing to counter that, absolutely nothing.

Who are these "folks who know?" Are they the same ones that completely misread the state of the economy when they made the predictions that didn't pan out? Looks like they didn't know too much after all.

Show us the policies are failures, then. You can't. You are just running your mouth.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A) Obama reappointed Bernancke and moved Geithner to the Treasury from the NY Fed presidency. If he had shuffled around the portfolios of Paulson and Cox he would have kept the entire team that presided over the meltdown but he did keep the two stars of the team.

B) Cash for Clunkers, first time homeowners tax credit and most of the rest of his legislative agenda have made the economy worse as in housing prices have gone into a death spiral of lower prices while the supply of houses has been constricted by foreclosure gate according to October Case-Shiller numbers.

C) He diddled with HCR while the economy crashed and burned.

D) He has ignored or at least not addressed PIIGS and the Far East real estate bubble which means the US will have a temporary up tick by convention time. The US is still the best of the worst but it will not aid him come the election.

Whether the above decisions were the least bad decisions possible given partisan and national politics I don't know I do know Obama will have to do everything right and get a lot of breaks to get reelected.

The assertions above are assertions until evidence is given in support.

Obama will have to do better, but if the GOP fields Palin, he wins easily.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Remember this?

We should be at 7.5% unemployment right now. Remember before all this "in the ditch" nonsense was created, the above chart says what the Obama Economic team said would happen. They assured us they were the best experts on the planet, and they assured us that the Stimulus plan would work.

Remember this, it didn't. Unemployment is at 9.6% and despite all the predictions, rhetoric, and excuses, it's still flat at a rate higher than what they said it would be if we agreed to their plan.

Another key thing they got wrong is the time they expected things to get better with or without the Stimulus. Early in the 4th quarter of 2010 the unemployment rate was predicted to go down with or without the Stimulus and yet it's still flat. Obviously we'll never know if it would have gone down without the Stimulus, but it's clear that they were wrong on the results and wrong on the timeline. Remember this whenever Obama and his economic team decide to change things because "we can't stay on the current course." Keep the current course and get out of the way, it's obvious he can't make things better and I propose we consider that they actually made things worse.

a miscalculation by the economic advisors for sure. then again, would you like 15% unemployment?

No. Was that a concern?

The reaility would have been far worse because the chart is flawed drastically.

 

[william the wie]

denial is not just a river in Egypt and using income statement gimmicks to solve balance sheet problems will work no better for the Obama administration than it did for Enron, Worldcom and Lehman Brothers.

 

[tankman56]

The without recovery plan is looking pretty good right now at 9 percent. Too bad we went with the recovery plan.

HA! Now thats funny right there . . .I don't care who ya are. I agree. We would have been better off with the "without recovery" plan. I was one of those numbers on the list for 2 years. I have recently been hired, thank the lord, but the frustration is still there.

 

[MaggieMae]

A) Obama reappointed Bernancke and moved Geithner to the Treasury from the NY Fed presidency. If he had shuffled around the portfolios of Paulson and Cox he would have kept the entire team that presided over the meltdown but he did keep the two stars of the team.

B) Cash for Clunkers, first time homeowners tax credit and most of the rest of his legislative agenda have made the economy worse as in housing prices have gone into a death spiral of lower prices while the supply of houses has been constricted by foreclosure gate according to October Case-Shiller numbers.

C) He diddled with HCR while the economy crashed and burned.

D) He has ignored or at least not addressed PIIGS and the Far East real estate bubble which means the US will have a temporary up tick by convention time. The US is still the best of the worst but it will not aid him come the election.

Whether the above decisions were the least bad decisions possible given partisan and national politics I don't know I do know Obama will have to do everything right and get a lot of breaks to get reelected.

The fact that the economy continues to climb out of the rut must really piss off people who would like to blame Obama for everything.

Today:

Fed Says U.S. Economy Gains Strength in 10 of 12 Regions - Bloomberg

Manufacturing in U.S. Expands for 16th Consecutive Month; Payrolls Climb - Bloomberg