We are in big trouble

[miami_thomas]

I think we have reached the point of no return. We are looking at raising taxes and cutting spending of about 503 billion dollars in January and the CBO is predicting that instead of a possible 3 percent growth we would be looking at a recession next year and shrinkage of .5 percent. Now these cuts and taxes would lower the deficit to about 900 billion but with a new recession revenues would drop and more people would join government programs and essentially increase the deficit. I think we are in a doomed economy no matter what we do. I think our nanny economy has reached the point to where we actually have to collapse and go bankrupt to come out on the other side cleaned up. This is exactly why government should not be allowed to take the place of charity. The problem is no one takes responsibility for the government’s money and does not think twice about borrowing nearly as much money as it makes to pay for charity. The biggest credit bubble bursts in our history were extremely bad leading to the great depression and the other leading to the previous recession in 2008. This bubble will be far worse because there will be no one to bail the government out.



Budget office: 'Fiscal cliff' cuts, tax hikes would lead to recession | Fox News

 

[WillowTree]

Shut up. It's what the Americans voted for. They wanted misery and now they've got it. Stop complaining.

 

[SniperFire]

Sovereign debt is sorta like maxing out your credit cards and thinking you are rich because of all the great stuff you have.

 

[konradv]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. People don't see what a $16T debt does to our economy, and far worse, they don't understand the damage higher interest rates are going to cause.

If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

 

[SniperFire]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

He will be sending legislation to fix it to the Senate in short order.


But Obama has already promised to veto it, assuming Reid would even permit the Senate to debate it.

 

[G.T.]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years. Someone tell me what it looks like when the bond holders (which happen to be, mostly the Fed (China's ownership of our debt is grossly overstated, *we* own most of our own debt) come looking to be paid up...

Taxes are not historically high, yet all the right can seem to speak about is how taxes are crushing business. That is what it means to be living inside of a bubble. Corporate profits hit many all-time highs under Obama, the bad for business President, let's all sweep those facts under the rug.

He cut 18 different taxes for small businesses. Let's sweep that under the carpet, also.

Let's not talk about how the recession itself is the reason foodstamps and things have increased - let's blame "entitlement MINDED people," as if that's not GROSSLY overstated, also.

Social Security needs reform, that doesn't mean we're done-for, it just means we need ideas. 51% of the Country is on "some sort of" assistance? Someone needs to break down what's inside of that 51%, because many of those inside of said 51% have PAID FOR what they're on, in BLOOD, or in DEDUCTIONS all of their working lives. Calling it entitlements when you worked all of your life like you were supposed to is a farce.

 

[miami_thomas]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

How do you fix it? Right not we owe 16.4 trillion dollars. The economy sucks so the interest rates are only about 1.2 percent which means we only pay about 180 billion in interest. If the economy were to pick up, then the interest rates could jump back to 2008 levels of 4.5% or even higher. This would increase our interest on 16.4 trillion to about 770 billion dollars. We are kind of at the damned if we do and damned if we don’t. The fact is at the rate we are going we will get to the point that all our revenue will just be going to paying for the interest. Think about this just to balance the deficit you would need to pay 150% more in federal taxes just to eliminate the deficit if the economy stayed the same and interest rates only went up to 4.5% and we did it today. If we don’t and we punt to ball, in 4 years the interest will be 1.3 trillion. I can tell you know if my taxes went up 150% I would have to cut a ton of things out of my life. Then those cuts would impact companies that would turn around and cuts costs and start a domino effect that would essentially throw us into a depression. If we don’t cut the deficit and just keep cruising along, eventually people will stop loaning us money and we would have to raise taxes and cut everything all at once with not safety valve what so ever and that would throw us in to a depression. Does anyone have an out?

 

[WillowTree]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years.

Take a look at the percentage of our economy that already goes to nothing but paying off debt/Treasuries. Then calculate what is going to happen, what it's going to cost us, when we're still borrowing at a frantic pace but paying 7% for 10-year notes instead of 1.75%.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope you're right.

.

 

[SniperFire]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

This is about the third time Komrade Konradv has pretended that Obama has not sworn to veto the legislation which would address the 'fiscal cliff.'

 

[WillowTree]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

This is about the third time Komrade Konradv has pretended that Obama has not sworn to veto the legislation which would address the 'fiscal cliff.'

or that Reid's waste can if full of rejected bills from the House that will never see the light of day on the Senate floor. Then they stand up and declare from their shit filled brains that the "ball is in Bohener's court" they deserve every ounce of misery that is coming down the pike.

 

[WillowTree]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

This is about the third time Komrade Konradv has pretended that Obama has not sworn to veto the legislation which would address the 'fiscal cliff.'

rep coming your way as soon as it's available to me.

 

[G.T.]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years.

Take a look at the percentage of our economy that already goes to nothing but paying off debt/Treasuries. Then calculate what is going to happen, what it's going to cost us, when we're still borrowing at a frantic pace but paying 7% for 10-year notes instead of 1.75%.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope you're right.

.

You forgot the rest of my post, but to your point, the money doesn't "go to nothing," much of it was borrowed to pay for things that will generate FUTURE profits, and savings. It was the long-term approach. Paying up now for things like preventative care - make *now* more expensive, for a less expensive future, for example.

Investing in the sciences of the future make *now* more expensive, for a much more successful future. Most of the time, when you study deeper into these things, there's a "bigger picture" that the headlines don't tell you.



I'll give you an example. I got really peeved one day, because some business out in California was killing some fish or bug or something (don't remember the specifics). So we paid federal dollars to protect said bug or fish (whatever it was). I was so mad about thaT SEEMINGLY WASTED MONEY, IN TIMES LIKE THESE. All the Conservative headlines said something about "2 million to save a dung beetle! (not the exact bug, mind you).

But when I read a study about what would happen to the ecosystem of the coast if said creature died off, the cost of protecting it was a DROP IN THE BUCKET to what it was going to cost the coast when its extinction happened.

That's why people need to be more pragmatic and more visionary, less REACTionary. People are so much faster to foam at the mouth and declare doom and gloom before they invest any time or energy into LEARNING.

 

[Stephanie]

OH WELL,

waaa for us..Obama and his comrades in arms will be right on it..

TAX TAX TAX

 

[miami_thomas]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years. Someone tell me what it looks like when the bond holders (which happen to be, mostly the Fed (China's ownership of our debt is grossly overstated, *we* own most of our own debt) come looking to be paid up...

Taxes are not historically high, yet all the right can seem to speak about is how taxes are crushing business. That is what it means to be living inside of a bubble. Corporate profits hit many all-time highs under Obama, the bad for business President, let's all sweep those facts under the rug.

He cut 18 different taxes for small businesses. Let's sweep that under the carpet, also.

Let's not talk about how the recession itself is the reason foodstamps and things have increased - let's blame "entitlement MINDED people," as if that's not GROSSLY overstated, also.

Social Security needs reform, that doesn't mean we're done-for, it just means we need ideas. 51% of the Country is on "some sort of" assistance? Someone needs to break down what's inside of that 51%, because many of those inside of said 51% have PAID FOR what they're on, in BLOOD, or in DEDUCTIONS all of their working lives. Calling it entitlements when you worked all of your life like you were supposed to is a farce.

At this point that no longer matters, what matters is that to fix the deficit we essentially have to pull 1.5 trillion dollars out of the economy just for the deficit. That of course does not include the interest on the debt. You see the debt is not the problem. The problem is the interest on that debt. Right now the interest is actually lower than it was in 2008. But that is just because the economies around the world are in no better shape than we are and they are still buying our treasuries so we don’t have to raise our interest rates. The fact that gold and silver are so expensive is the reason they are not skyrocketing. However at some point there will start to be fear that we will not be able to pay back our debts ever. When this happens and people start taking their investments elsewhere our interest rates will have to go up. When this happens you will feel it. If we did not have to pay interest, we would have no problem at all. But we do have to pay interest and that is where the danger is.

Also on a side note regarding the gold currently the Fed has been loaning out its gold to bullion banks to try and bring down the price of gold. But this has not been working. Eventually, I don’t know how soon, the bullion banks will have to start buying the gold back and if prices are still this high that is when everything will collapse for real because that would destroy the value of the dollar.

 

[SniperFire]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years.

That is some serious whistling past the graveyard.

Can you Lefties grasp what it means if we allow Owebama to quadruple our National debt in 10 years as the CBO is projecting?

We currently pay 9% of our budget for debt service.. Best case, that would rise to 36% of our ENTIRE FEDERAL BUDGET OUTLAY.

Mother of God.

 

[Pinocchio]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

 

[G.T.]

I don't converse with mouth foaming hacks, who live inside of a bubble.

This message is hidden because SniperFire is on your ignore list.

 

[G.T.]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

Like small businesses firing people after 18 tax cuts, to "spite" the President and because they buy into partisanship.