Was the Reformation a mistake? A Catholic and a Protestant debate

[JohnPrewett]

Lil Nipper, if you have a "holy father" man in Rome, can you simultaneously be in the status of "saved" ?

 

[LittleNipper]

Lil Nipper, if you have a "holy father" man in Rome, can you simultaneously be in the status of "saved" ?

Well, if one has a Holy Father in heaven one is saved. If one has but only a "holy father" in Rome, he isn't. And then there is the uneasy question --- Is the holy father in Rome saved or just playing a part? I'm not suggesting he is not being sincere, but wouldn't Caiaphas in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus sincerely regard himself very secure because he was the Chief Priest of Jerusalem? And yet he rejected the very Messiah he should have been expecting all along. Would the Pope recognize Jesus? And I'm not speaking from a painting in the Vatican sort of way, but would he recognize Jesus if Jesus were clean shaven and wearing a tweed suit? Jesus would be more than a mere "look" --- don't you think?

To answer you question, I do believe that it is possible but I believe there might be some feeling of unfulfillment on the part of that individual... Perhaps a mood of wanting to be closer to Jesus, and perhaps needing more somehow... I'm going out on a limb here to say that I believe Bible Studies and Sunday School and Vacation Bible School ---- aren't they a "Protestant" innovation?

 

[JohnPrewett]

In era of the original apostles, water baptism of new believers signified newly acquired faith in Jesus.
After the Roman Empire empowered the Trinitarian cult (380 AD) water baptism came to mean becoming a member of the Trinitarian Roman State "church" which evolved into the cults that comprise modern organized christianish religion.

NOW water baptism is entrance ritual into any of hundreds of water-baptizing clergy-led cults that comprise organized religion.

“COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE”
Revelation 18:4 (command - not suggestion)

Jesus’s people have and will continue to come out of the Great Whore
and her family of water-baptized clergy-led Protestant cults.

IOW: Out of ALL the water-baptizing, clergy-led “churches” that comprise organized religion.

And into: JESUS’S CHURCH – THE Church:

Loves one another,

Jesus Christ is the founder,

Each member confess Jesus same as Peter did [Matt 16],

Each member exercises faith in Jesus Christ.

Each member individually led and taught

by the NT revealed Word and Spirit of Jesus,

Has leaders (in truth not bosses) (1 Cor 12)

Has no earthly HQ,

Has no special day, Has no “clergy/layman” distinction,

Has no special translation/version of the Bible,

Has no ‘name brand’ (like Lutheran, SDAdentist, LDSaints,

Baptist, Messianic Jews etc),

Honors no seminary degrees,

Honors no earthly water baptism,

Has no “church” membership list kept on earth,

Member names are on Jesus’s list in heaven.

Members need only their native tongue.

The Church. The Flock-Body-Bride of Christ.

Wanna be a member? If so, then call on then heed Jesus.

Come out of the many christianish [mostly Trinitarian] cults that evolved from the Roman State “church”

State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia SLINGING SEEDS

 

[RWNJ]

Matthew Levering, a Catholic perspective
In my book “Was the Reformation a Mistake?: Why Catholic Doctrine Is Not Unbiblical,” I aim to show that even if one disagrees with judgments made in the course of Catholic doctrinal development, the Catholic positions on nine disputed doctrines (Scripture, Mary, the Eucharist, the Seven Sacraments, monasticism, justification and merit, purgatory, saints and papacy) should not be rejected as unbiblical or as lacking in biblical grounding — at least given the Catholic view of biblically warranted modes of biblical reasoning.

Before proceeding, let me make some additional observations about whether the Reformation was a “mistake,” as my book’s title asks in light of the Reformation’s 500th anniversary.


I hold that the Reformers made mistakes, but that they chose to be reformers was not a mistake. There had to be a Reformation, and it is good that the Reformation shook up a status quo in Rome and elsewhere that was unacceptable and untenable. In this sense, the Protestant Reformation cannot be dismissed as a mere “mistake,” even if in my view it mistakenly deemed some Catholic doctrines to be unbiblical and church-dividing.
Commentary: Was the Reformation a mistake? A Catholic and a Protestant debate | Baptist Standard

I thought that there would have been a debate-debate but it is still a little interesting.

There can be no doubt that it was a good thing. It gave people the right to worship as they choose. The Catholic Church was a tool of Satan, that persecuted anyone who deviated from their pagan beliefs. Yes. It was a good thing. No doubt about it.

 

[ninja007]

In era of the original apostles, water baptism of new believers signified newly acquired faith in Jesus.
After the Roman Empire empowered the Trinitarian cult (380 AD) water baptism came to mean becoming a member of the Trinitarian Roman State "church" which evolved into the cults that comprise modern organized christianish religion.

NOW water baptism is entrance ritual into any of hundreds of water-baptizing clergy-led cults that comprise organized religion.

“COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE”
Revelation 18:4 (command - not suggestion)

Jesus’s people have and will continue to come out of the Great Whore
and her family of water-baptized clergy-led Protestant cults.

IOW: Out of ALL the water-baptizing, clergy-led “churches” that comprise organized religion.

And into: JESUS’S CHURCH – THE Church:

Loves one another,

Jesus Christ is the founder,

Each member confess Jesus same as Peter did [Matt 16],

Each member exercises faith in Jesus Christ.

Each member individually led and taught

by the NT revealed Word and Spirit of Jesus,

Has leaders (in truth not bosses) (1 Cor 12)

Has no earthly HQ,

Has no special day, Has no “clergy/layman” distinction,

Has no special translation/version of the Bible,

Has no ‘name brand’ (like Lutheran, SDAdentist, LDSaints,

Baptist, Messianic Jews etc),

Honors no seminary degrees,

Honors no earthly water baptism,

Has no “church” membership list kept on earth,

Member names are on Jesus’s list in heaven.

Members need only their native tongue.

The Church. The Flock-Body-Bride of Christ.

Wanna be a member? If so, then call on then heed Jesus.

Come out of the many christianish [mostly Trinitarian] cults that evolved from the Roman State “church”

State church of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia SLINGING SEEDS

forgot one of the most satanic things- the catechism.

 

[LittleNipper]

When one acknowledges the Lord Jesus as the Only begotten Son of the Father, one is acknowledging that Jesus is God with us. Jesus needed to return to His Father so that He could then in turn send down the Holy Spirit (the Comforter) upon all those who are redeemed (to indwell). This is what "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" signifies. It's the realization that there is but one GOD who is the united some of 3 eternal and coequal beings working together in unison. It is the revealed Jesus Christ in REVELATION who is walking among the various churches ---- which may also represent various maturity or ages the CHURCH would go through to the end times.

As long as a church accepts this it is united in the fellowship of Christ as a part of the Total CHURCH of CHRIST. A cult on the other-hand believes it possesses the sole knowledge and power exclusively. Those that fall into this category are Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Armstrong followers for starters. Very often they have their own literature and Bible translations supporting their exclusive doctrinal stances.

 

[Hawkins]

Matthew Levering, a Catholic perspective
In my book “Was the Reformation a Mistake?: Why Catholic Doctrine Is Not Unbiblical,” I aim to show that even if one disagrees with judgments made in the course of Catholic doctrinal development, the Catholic positions on nine disputed doctrines (Scripture, Mary, the Eucharist, the Seven Sacraments, monasticism, justification and merit, purgatory, saints and papacy) should not be rejected as unbiblical or as lacking in biblical grounding — at least given the Catholic view of biblically warranted modes of biblical reasoning.

Before proceeding, let me make some additional observations about whether the Reformation was a “mistake,” as my book’s title asks in light of the Reformation’s 500th anniversary.


I hold that the Reformers made mistakes, but that they chose to be reformers was not a mistake. There had to be a Reformation, and it is good that the Reformation shook up a status quo in Rome and elsewhere that was unacceptable and untenable. In this sense, the Protestant Reformation cannot be dismissed as a mere “mistake,” even if in my view it mistakenly deemed some Catholic doctrines to be unbiblical and church-dividing.
Commentary: Was the Reformation a mistake? A Catholic and a Protestant debate | Baptist Standard

I thought that there would have been a debate-debate but it is still a little interesting.

It's a matter of perspective. Catholic alone won't be able to hold as many souls as Catholic and Protestant combined. If in the case that there are too many fishes in the water area, you may consider to use 2 fishing poles instead of one to maximize your harvest. That's the point.

 

[RWNJ]

Matthew Levering, a Catholic perspective
In my book “Was the Reformation a Mistake?: Why Catholic Doctrine Is Not Unbiblical,” I aim to show that even if one disagrees with judgments made in the course of Catholic doctrinal development, the Catholic positions on nine disputed doctrines (Scripture, Mary, the Eucharist, the Seven Sacraments, monasticism, justification and merit, purgatory, saints and papacy) should not be rejected as unbiblical or as lacking in biblical grounding — at least given the Catholic view of biblically warranted modes of biblical reasoning.

Before proceeding, let me make some additional observations about whether the Reformation was a “mistake,” as my book’s title asks in light of the Reformation’s 500th anniversary.


I hold that the Reformers made mistakes, but that they chose to be reformers was not a mistake. There had to be a Reformation, and it is good that the Reformation shook up a status quo in Rome and elsewhere that was unacceptable and untenable. In this sense, the Protestant Reformation cannot be dismissed as a mere “mistake,” even if in my view it mistakenly deemed some Catholic doctrines to be unbiblical and church-dividing.
Commentary: Was the Reformation a mistake? A Catholic and a Protestant debate | Baptist Standard

I thought that there would have been a debate-debate but it is still a little interesting.

It's a matter of perspective. Catholic alone won't be able to hold as many souls as Catholic and Protestant combined. If in the case that there are too many fishes in the water area, you may consider to use 2 fishing poles instead of one to maximize your harvest. That's the point.

But only one of those fishing poles will catch anything. Billions of Catholics are being led astray. I'm not saying that all Catholics are going to Hell, but there are many 'traditions' that are not Biblical, such as purgatory. There are no second chances. Once you die, you will be judged.

 

[ninja007]

there are catholics who are saved, despite what their church teaches- but they need to come out of the harlot. They also need to share the simple Gospel message with the catholics who are under tradition of mortal sinful men; and most catholics worship their catechism, their priests, Mary etc.

 

[RWNJ]

there are catholics who are saved, despite what their church teaches- but they need to come out of the harlot. They also need to share the simple Gospel message with the catholics who are under tradition of mortal sinful men; and most catholics worship their catechism, their priests, Mary etc.

Many even claim that tradition is more important than Scripture.

 

[anotherlife]

Was reformation a mistake? Yes, reformation was a mistake, but was unavoidable because of the total corruption of the Church and the financial gains that outsiders made on it.

 

[RWNJ]

Was reformation a mistake? Yes, reformation was a mistake, but was unavoidable because of the total corruption of the Church and the financial gains that outsiders made on it.

Incorrect. It allowed people to worship God in their own way. The ones who join 'Christian' cults would have gone astray no matter what. What matters is the freedom to chose. How can that possibly be a mistake?

 

[anotherlife]

Was reformation a mistake? Yes, reformation was a mistake, but was unavoidable because of the total corruption of the Church and the financial gains that outsiders made on it.

Incorrect. It allowed people to worship God in their own way. The ones who join 'Christian' cults would have gone astray no matter what. What matters is the freedom to chose. How can that possibly be a mistake?

It is a mistake because the freedom to choose is like the joke that says "I have good news, we have options, ... I have a bad news too, we have options". Choices are the used car dealer's weapon when only paper is around. Satan loves that.

The Protestants destroyed far more than any other group up till the day of the invention of nationalism.

 

[Zebra]

The Medici popes were undeniably corrupt.

Luther's reformation changed everything.

It was a disaster for Catholicism but was also badly needed at the times.

There was then a Catholic counter reformation afterwards to stop the bleeding.

Today we live with hundreds of Christian churches under the four covers of Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, and American Off The Wall.

C'est la vive !!

Ok!