Using Condemned Killers for Medical Research????

[Cecilie1200]

Sounds like it could lead to trouble to me. Probably lawsuits by family members, maybe abuse by those in charge, if they do get sick from the experimentation, then having to provide them with potentially expensive medical care when they were previously healthy? This seems as if it could lead to more problems than solutions actually.

Well, you run the same risks with any human testing, but we still do it. It involves reams of contracts and signed agreements. Also, if I remember correctly, there's usually a provision in the agreements for medical care in the event that the experiments make them sick.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

If so then they can't be executed if they are not mentally fit.

You think a serial killer is mentally fit?

To make decisions about his own health? Sure. He was mentally fit enough to assist in his own defense in court. Good enough for me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

Same reason that non-prisoners do: compensation.

Say, for example, you're a death row inmate whose family doesn't live very close, but there's another facility that could house you that's closer to them. Increased visits due to a transfer would be an attractive compensation. Or maybe just an increase in the number of visits would also work.

Or there's the fact that prison food is adequate for basic nutrition, but not known for its flavor or variety. The ability to supplement with a favorite snack or to get sodas sometimes (if you're a soda addict) would be appealing.

Being in prison, especially death row, has got to be one of the most torturously boring experiences a human can have. I would think a number of inmates would be willing to volunteer for medical testing in exchange for the opportunity to engage in a hobby (provided it was judged safe by the prison admin).

The prison system provides the basic necessities of survival, but only that. There are a lot of creature comforts that the inmates are allowed to have, but which they have to provide for themselves via their commissary accounts. Money put into that account is HIGHLY desirable, always.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wonder....

How would you feel if there was a program funded by the National Institutes of Health that would do the following...

Survey those on Death Row as well as prisoners doing life sentences...to see if they would take part in a program to where we can test potentially life saving vaccines and other drugs on them.

The CDC reports that 12-56,000 people die of flue every year in the US and over 700,000 are made sick enough to hospitalize. This was reported in the Smithsonian Magazine 11/17 edition. The article goes on to mention that a researcher named Peter Palese has essentially created a vaccine that has produced an "immune response" in lab animals. He wants to test it on humans.

I am of the opinion that if suitable subjects can be found on Death Row or in the lifers in prison, we should allow them to volunteer to become subjects in these trials.

I am not sure how I feel about their being able to volunteer for more radical experiments though. I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

If agreement is voluntary only, sure.

Not just voluntary but you have to pass rigorous background investigations as well as rigorous mental evaluations to make sure you are making a decision being of sound mind SJ seems to think there is no way a prisoner can be of sound mind. It would take someone with the experience of a psychiatrist to make the decision of course but I would just assume that you wouldn’t expect to find someone on death row who is 100% spot on in terms of mental agility. But someone who can make this decision free of the “voices in their head”? I would think you could.

The problem is that psychiatrists are often wrong because psychiatry is not definitive science. Some crazy people are good at hiding their crazy and you cannot possibly know what is going on in someone's head, especially when they are sitting on death row awaiting a death sentence.

Again, I'm perfectly good with the psychiatric determination that they were rational enough to stand trial.

Aside from that, I suppose that, depending on the medication in question, there might be medical standards in regard to mental health that would have to be met, to be sure there aren't unanticipated reactions.

 

[mudwhistle]

I wonder....

How would you feel if there was a program funded by the National Institutes of Health that would do the following...

Survey those on Death Row as well as prisoners doing life sentences...to see if they would take part in a program to where we can test potentially life saving vaccines and other drugs on them.

The CDC reports that 12-56,000 people die of flue every year in the US and over 700,000 are made sick enough to hospitalize. This was reported in the Smithsonian Magazine 11/17 edition. The article goes on to mention that a researcher named Peter Palese has essentially created a vaccine that has produced an "immune response" in lab animals. He wants to test it on humans.

I am of the opinion that if suitable subjects can be found on Death Row or in the lifers in prison, we should allow them to volunteer to become subjects in these trials.

I am not sure how I feel about their being able to volunteer for more radical experiments though. I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

I think they all should be harvested for their organs.

 

[S.J.]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

Same reason that non-prisoners do: compensation.

Say, for example, you're a death row inmate whose family doesn't live very close, but there's another facility that could house you that's closer to them. Increased visits due to a transfer would be an attractive compensation. Or maybe just an increase in the number of visits would also work.

Or there's the fact that prison food is adequate for basic nutrition, but not known for its flavor or variety. The ability to supplement with a favorite snack or to get sodas sometimes (if you're a soda addict) would be appealing.

Being in prison, especially death row, has got to be one of the most torturously boring experiences a human can have. I would think a number of inmates would be willing to volunteer for medical testing in exchange for the opportunity to engage in a hobby (provided it was judged safe by the prison admin).

The prison system provides the basic necessities of survival, but only that. There are a lot of creature comforts that the inmates are allowed to have, but which they have to provide for themselves via their commissary accounts. Money put into that account is HIGHLY desirable, always.

You think they would agree to be guinea pigs in exchange for a few creature comforts? Seriously?

 

[flewism]

No, you can't do it, you would be creating a market to sentence people to life. Americans would find a way to profit from it.

There should be no life sentences, there should only be years imprisoned or death by the most efficient means possible after due process.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

Same reason that non-prisoners do: compensation.

Say, for example, you're a death row inmate whose family doesn't live very close, but there's another facility that could house you that's closer to them. Increased visits due to a transfer would be an attractive compensation. Or maybe just an increase in the number of visits would also work.

Or there's the fact that prison food is adequate for basic nutrition, but not known for its flavor or variety. The ability to supplement with a favorite snack or to get sodas sometimes (if you're a soda addict) would be appealing.

Being in prison, especially death row, has got to be one of the most torturously boring experiences a human can have. I would think a number of inmates would be willing to volunteer for medical testing in exchange for the opportunity to engage in a hobby (provided it was judged safe by the prison admin).

The prison system provides the basic necessities of survival, but only that. There are a lot of creature comforts that the inmates are allowed to have, but which they have to provide for themselves via their commissary accounts. Money put into that account is HIGHLY desirable, always.

You think they would agree to be guinea pigs in exchange for a few creature comforts? Seriously?

Well, if they don't, then they don't and we haven't lost anything, have we?

But yes, I think when your entire life has become that constrained and hemmed in, whatever little bit of brightness you can get for yourself becomes magnified.

There's a reason why those creature comforts you scorn are a powerful and effective tool for keeping hundreds of inmates, by definition violent people with no regard for rules, quiet and orderly.

 

[S.J.]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

Same reason that non-prisoners do: compensation.

Say, for example, you're a death row inmate whose family doesn't live very close, but there's another facility that could house you that's closer to them. Increased visits due to a transfer would be an attractive compensation. Or maybe just an increase in the number of visits would also work.

Or there's the fact that prison food is adequate for basic nutrition, but not known for its flavor or variety. The ability to supplement with a favorite snack or to get sodas sometimes (if you're a soda addict) would be appealing.

Being in prison, especially death row, has got to be one of the most torturously boring experiences a human can have. I would think a number of inmates would be willing to volunteer for medical testing in exchange for the opportunity to engage in a hobby (provided it was judged safe by the prison admin).

The prison system provides the basic necessities of survival, but only that. There are a lot of creature comforts that the inmates are allowed to have, but which they have to provide for themselves via their commissary accounts. Money put into that account is HIGHLY desirable, always.

You think they would agree to be guinea pigs in exchange for a few creature comforts? Seriously?

Well, if they don't, then they don't and we haven't lost anything, have we?

But yes, I think when your entire life has become that constrained and hemmed in, whatever little bit of brightness you can get for yourself becomes magnified.

There's a reason why those creature comforts you scorn are a powerful and effective tool for keeping hundreds of inmates, by definition violent people with no regard for rules, quiet and orderly.

So the creature comforts are enough to let somebody give them a disease so they can try different drugs on them? Pretty unrealistic, don't you think?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

Same reason that non-prisoners do: compensation.

Say, for example, you're a death row inmate whose family doesn't live very close, but there's another facility that could house you that's closer to them. Increased visits due to a transfer would be an attractive compensation. Or maybe just an increase in the number of visits would also work.

Or there's the fact that prison food is adequate for basic nutrition, but not known for its flavor or variety. The ability to supplement with a favorite snack or to get sodas sometimes (if you're a soda addict) would be appealing.

Being in prison, especially death row, has got to be one of the most torturously boring experiences a human can have. I would think a number of inmates would be willing to volunteer for medical testing in exchange for the opportunity to engage in a hobby (provided it was judged safe by the prison admin).

The prison system provides the basic necessities of survival, but only that. There are a lot of creature comforts that the inmates are allowed to have, but which they have to provide for themselves via their commissary accounts. Money put into that account is HIGHLY desirable, always.

You think they would agree to be guinea pigs in exchange for a few creature comforts? Seriously?

Well, if they don't, then they don't and we haven't lost anything, have we?

But yes, I think when your entire life has become that constrained and hemmed in, whatever little bit of brightness you can get for yourself becomes magnified.

There's a reason why those creature comforts you scorn are a powerful and effective tool for keeping hundreds of inmates, by definition violent people with no regard for rules, quiet and orderly.

So the creature comforts are enough to let somebody give them a disease so they can try different drugs on them? Pretty unrealistic, don't you think?

No.

And what's your point? Again, if it's not enough, then they don't agree to do it, and nothing's changed. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't offer the choice at all, simply because YOU, in your infinite wisdom and experience of death row, have decided that they won't want to?

 

[candycorn]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

Same reason that non-prisoners do: compensation.

Say, for example, you're a death row inmate whose family doesn't live very close, but there's another facility that could house you that's closer to them. Increased visits due to a transfer would be an attractive compensation. Or maybe just an increase in the number of visits would also work.

Or there's the fact that prison food is adequate for basic nutrition, but not known for its flavor or variety. The ability to supplement with a favorite snack or to get sodas sometimes (if you're a soda addict) would be appealing.

Being in prison, especially death row, has got to be one of the most torturously boring experiences a human can have. I would think a number of inmates would be willing to volunteer for medical testing in exchange for the opportunity to engage in a hobby (provided it was judged safe by the prison admin).

The prison system provides the basic necessities of survival, but only that. There are a lot of creature comforts that the inmates are allowed to have, but which they have to provide for themselves via their commissary accounts. Money put into that account is HIGHLY desirable, always.

You think they would agree to be guinea pigs in exchange for a few creature comforts? Seriously?

You never know unless you ask. Some may see it as repaying society for their sins.
And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time. More visitation is currency for them. Being able to send their kid through college would probably carry a lot of weight with some.

There are different motivators for different people.

 

[S.J.]

And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time.

Then why do you need to recruit prisoners? Wouldn't you rather pay a non criminal?

 

[candycorn]

And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time.

Then why do you need to recruit prisoners? Wouldn't you rather pay a non criminal?

My OP is about the "cutting edge" of medical science type of experiments and treatments. Stuff where the side effect may be death. While this can happen in patient trials, it is not the norm.

 

[candycorn]

No, you can't do it, you would be creating a market to sentence people to life. Americans would find a way to profit from it.

There should be no life sentences, there should only be years imprisoned or death by the most efficient means possible after due process.

This is true. However that is another discussion. The market is already there.

 

[S.J.]

And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time.

Then why do you need to recruit prisoners? Wouldn't you rather pay a non criminal?

My OP is about the "cutting edge" of medical science type of experiments and treatments. Stuff where the side effect may be death. While this can happen in patient trials, it is not the norm.

Crackpots like you have been suggesting this Dr. Mengele stuff for years. It's never had any support except from other crackpots and nothing has changed. You should just admit your idea is silly, it'll never happen. Sorry.

 

[candycorn]

And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time.

Then why do you need to recruit prisoners? Wouldn't you rather pay a non criminal?

My OP is about the "cutting edge" of medical science type of experiments and treatments. Stuff where the side effect may be death. While this can happen in patient trials, it is not the norm.

Crackpots like you have been suggesting this Dr. Mengele stuff for years. It's never had any support except from other crackpots and nothing has changed. You should just admit your idea is silly, it'll never happen. Sorry.

You're entitled to your opinon. I knew it would end with a personal attack since that is your only trick.

 

[S.J.]

And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time.

Then why do you need to recruit prisoners? Wouldn't you rather pay a non criminal?

My OP is about the "cutting edge" of medical science type of experiments and treatments. Stuff where the side effect may be death. While this can happen in patient trials, it is not the norm.

Crackpots like you have been suggesting this Dr. Mengele stuff for years. It's never had any support except from other crackpots and nothing has changed. You should just admit your idea is silly, it'll never happen. Sorry.

You're entitled to your opinon. I knew it would end with a personal attack since that is your only trick.

Trick? No, just the truth. Your idea has been floated for decades and it's been rejected every time. It's a "feel good" proposal designed to appeal to the lynch mob mentality torch carrying, pitchfork wielding vigilantes. It'll never be implemented and everyone knows it. Your idea is not new, and you don't know how to back out of this ridiculous proposal to experiment on death row inmates who would never go along with it. Can't you just admit it's a dumb idea and be done with it? It's never gonna happen.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Candycorn handled her part of the discussion maturely and with good points. S.J. has argued the other point of view emotionally and with personal attacks.

I personally believe the risk to the inmate outweighs his informed consent rights.

 

[S.J.]

Candycorn handled her part of the discussion maturely and with good points. S.J. has argued the other point of view emotionally and with personal attacks.

I personally believe the risk to the inmate outweighs his informed consent rights.

So much for having me on ignore.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And, in case you do not know it, people in the non incarcerated world volunteer to undergo trials for payment all the time.

Then why do you need to recruit prisoners? Wouldn't you rather pay a non criminal?

I'd rather do both, actually. There's always more need than there is supply in this area, and I like the idea of, instead of paying money to simply warehouse these people idly for years, them actually being useful to someone for probably the first time in their misbegotten existences.