Using Condemned Killers for Medical Research????

[dblack]

What are you gonna reward them with? You can't exactly shorten their sentences.

I suppose that depends on how the drug trial pans out.

 

[S.J.]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

 

[Moonglow]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

If so then they can't be executed if they are not mentally fit.

 

[candycorn]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

Oh….your logic is that everyone sentenced to life or condemned to death are not mentally stable based simply on the crime. Hmmm…that may be the most monumentally stupid thing ever written. Congratulations.

 

[S.J.]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

If so then they can't be executed if they are not mentally fit.

You think a serial killer is mentally fit?

 

[S.J.]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

Oh….your logic is that everyone sentenced to life or condemned to death are not mentally stable based simply on the crime. Hmmm…that may be the most monumentally stupid thing ever written. Congratulations.

Not as monumentally stupid as your notion that these are rational thinking people.

 

[candycorn]

Sounds like it could lead to trouble to me. Probably lawsuits by family members, maybe abuse by those in charge, if they do get sick from the experimentation, then having to provide them with potentially expensive medical care when they were previously healthy? This seems as if it could lead to more problems than solutions actually.

Not only possibly but probably….

I wouldn’t worry about lawsuits from family members if the proper safeguards are put into place to start with.

As for the injuries…you’re correct. The program would have to include funding for aftercare.

 

[candycorn]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Well, that is why you have the testing. Now do you have anything constructive to add?

I just did. They failed the "test" of being mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions when they committed the crime. Your logic is on a par with theirs.

Oh….your logic is that everyone sentenced to life or condemned to death are not mentally stable based simply on the crime. Hmmm…that may be the most monumentally stupid thing ever written. Congratulations.

Not as monumentally stupid as your notion that these are rational thinking people.

Again…that is why you have the testing.

 

[Zander]

As long as the program is voluntary I would be in favor of it.

I view it as a sort of karma balancing mechanism.

 

[S.J.]

Give some examples of why a prisoner would volunteer to be experimented on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I wonder....

How would you feel if there was a program funded by the National Institutes of Health that would do the following...

Survey those on Death Row as well as prisoners doing life sentences...to see if they would take part in a program to where we can test potentially life saving vaccines and other drugs on them.

The CDC reports that 12-56,000 people die of flue every year in the US and over 700,000 are made sick enough to hospitalize. This was reported in the Smithsonian Magazine 11/17 edition. The article goes on to mention that a researcher named Peter Palese has essentially created a vaccine that has produced an "immune response" in lab animals. He wants to test it on humans.

I am of the opinion that if suitable subjects can be found on Death Row or in the lifers in prison, we should allow them to volunteer to become subjects in these trials.

I am not sure how I feel about their being able to volunteer for more radical experiments though. I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

If agreement is voluntary only, sure.

 

[candycorn]

I wonder....

How would you feel if there was a program funded by the National Institutes of Health that would do the following...

Survey those on Death Row as well as prisoners doing life sentences...to see if they would take part in a program to where we can test potentially life saving vaccines and other drugs on them.

The CDC reports that 12-56,000 people die of flue every year in the US and over 700,000 are made sick enough to hospitalize. This was reported in the Smithsonian Magazine 11/17 edition. The article goes on to mention that a researcher named Peter Palese has essentially created a vaccine that has produced an "immune response" in lab animals. He wants to test it on humans.

I am of the opinion that if suitable subjects can be found on Death Row or in the lifers in prison, we should allow them to volunteer to become subjects in these trials.

I am not sure how I feel about their being able to volunteer for more radical experiments though. I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

If agreement is voluntary only, sure.

Not just voluntary but you have to pass rigorous background investigations as well as rigorous mental evaluations to make sure you are making a decision being of sound mind SJ seems to think there is no way a prisoner can be of sound mind. It would take someone with the experience of a psychiatrist to make the decision of course but I would just assume that you wouldn’t expect to find someone on death row who is 100% spot on in terms of mental agility. But someone who can make this decision free of the “voices in their head”? I would think you could.

 

[ChrisL]

I wonder....

How would you feel if there was a program funded by the National Institutes of Health that would do the following...

Survey those on Death Row as well as prisoners doing life sentences...to see if they would take part in a program to where we can test potentially life saving vaccines and other drugs on them.

The CDC reports that 12-56,000 people die of flue every year in the US and over 700,000 are made sick enough to hospitalize. This was reported in the Smithsonian Magazine 11/17 edition. The article goes on to mention that a researcher named Peter Palese has essentially created a vaccine that has produced an "immune response" in lab animals. He wants to test it on humans.

I am of the opinion that if suitable subjects can be found on Death Row or in the lifers in prison, we should allow them to volunteer to become subjects in these trials.

I am not sure how I feel about their being able to volunteer for more radical experiments though. I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

If agreement is voluntary only, sure.

Not just voluntary but you have to pass rigorous background investigations as well as rigorous mental evaluations to make sure you are making a decision being of sound mind SJ seems to think there is no way a prisoner can be of sound mind. It would take someone with the experience of a psychiatrist to make the decision of course but I would just assume that you wouldn’t expect to find someone on death row who is 100% spot on in terms of mental agility. But someone who can make this decision free of the “voices in their head”? I would think you could.

The problem is that psychiatrists are often wrong because psychiatry is not definitive science. Some crazy people are good at hiding their crazy and you cannot possibly know what is going on in someone's head, especially when they are sitting on death row awaiting a death sentence.

 

[ChrisL]

Our accepted "courtroom" definition of insanity of knowing the difference between right and wrong is not necessarily so accurate when assessing for mental illness. There are a whole LOT of complicating factors when determining a person's mental stability. It is certainly never going to be an open and shut case, IMO.

 

[candycorn]

I wonder....

How would you feel if there was a program funded by the National Institutes of Health that would do the following...

Survey those on Death Row as well as prisoners doing life sentences...to see if they would take part in a program to where we can test potentially life saving vaccines and other drugs on them.

The CDC reports that 12-56,000 people die of flue every year in the US and over 700,000 are made sick enough to hospitalize. This was reported in the Smithsonian Magazine 11/17 edition. The article goes on to mention that a researcher named Peter Palese has essentially created a vaccine that has produced an "immune response" in lab animals. He wants to test it on humans.

I am of the opinion that if suitable subjects can be found on Death Row or in the lifers in prison, we should allow them to volunteer to become subjects in these trials.

I am not sure how I feel about their being able to volunteer for more radical experiments though. I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

If agreement is voluntary only, sure.

Not just voluntary but you have to pass rigorous background investigations as well as rigorous mental evaluations to make sure you are making a decision being of sound mind SJ seems to think there is no way a prisoner can be of sound mind. It would take someone with the experience of a psychiatrist to make the decision of course but I would just assume that you wouldn’t expect to find someone on death row who is 100% spot on in terms of mental agility. But someone who can make this decision free of the “voices in their head”? I would think you could.

The problem is that psychiatrists are often wrong because psychiatry is not definitive science. Some crazy people are good at hiding their crazy and you cannot possibly know what is going on in someone's head, especially when they are sitting on death row awaiting a death sentence.

Well, again, that is not going to be the fault of the administrators of the program. I’m not just talking about one session. I’m talking about multiple interviews from both shrinks inside and outside the program, the study of long term observations, and deep dives into the history of the prisoner. That, affidavits of corrections officers who observe the prisoner daily and, even “references” for want of a better term from the non prison community that attest to the saneness.

If, after all that is done properly, the prisoner is still “hiding” his illness…well, that is just the costs of doing business as far as the study goes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think with proper psychological testing to make sure they are mentally fit and are making the decision rationally...perhaps.

Oh yeah, I'm sure most of those convicted murderers on death row are mentally fit and capable of making rational decisions. LMAO!!!

Evil isn't necessarily a mental defect, from a physiological standpoint.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What are you gonna reward them with? You can't exactly shorten their sentences.

Not sure all would need a reward. I'm open to the reward being commensurate with the risk they are taking. At no point do I put them back on the street or anything like that. But I can see a monetary stipend to their family in the form of a one time payment or free college for their kids at a state college, etc... But it would have to be for a very risky type of experiment or very experimental vaccine.

I suppose there are also certain prison privileges they could be given to make their time more comfortable. So long as it didn't interfere with the security of their imprisonment, I could see that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I understand the point you are trying to make candycorn, but there is just something too creepy about doing that.

Well, since Trump okayed the "right to try" thing, I'd say it would be in keeping. And we allow non-prisoners to volunteer for medical testing. My feeling is, we're talking about THEIR bodies. So long as no one is coerced or forced, I'm okay with letting them make their own choices about their bodies and their health to that extent.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What are you gonna reward them with? You can't exactly shorten their sentences.

There are plenty of rewards. Better food, more time outside, transfer to a less violent prison, a television in their cell, in some cases, a couple of hours of darkness during sleeping hours, an extra shower, powdered cream and sugar for coffee. Rewards are no problem.

I doubt the less-violent prison thing matters to them, since death row inmates are kept separate from other inmates, anyway. But yeah, there are a lot of privileges the prison can make available to inmates which could be used as a way of paying them for the risk. I know the maximum security prison in Florence, AZ - where the death row unit is located - has a store across the street where inmates sell their arts and crafts. They use their commissary accounts to buy the supplies, and the money from the sales goes into the commissary accounts. Keeps 'em occupied and quiet, and it's probably the most productive they've been in their whole misbegotten lives.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It’s still medically unethical, the notion of those on death row ‘volunteering’ is questionable.

Is it ethical to not try every means available to cure cancer, prevent illnesses, etc. I'm not suggesting we see what would happen if someone swallows paint or whatever but for legitimate medical research in a controlled environment under FDA and (my preference) WHO supervision... I'm open to it.

Should the person who cures cancer be allowed to get away with being a Rapist?
Cures cancer, goes to jail for tax evasion doesn't sound like we appreciated him properly for his accomplishment.

Can't imagine what the one has to do with the other.