U.S. to Israel: Reverse 'deeply concerning' decision to appropriate West Bank land

[flacaltenn]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

I am not a lunatic.. OR a ZioFascist.. But I see no DEMAND from the PA to make Palis CITIZENS OF ISRAEL!! Is this a new negotiating tactic that I missed? They want their OWN state by and large why are you fixated on their rights to vote IN ISRAEL..

Seems to me -- as a NON-lunatic ---- that if they are chomping to VOTE -- they might be more interested in the PA elections that have BEEN DELAYED for -- oh about 4 or 5 years now.

 

[montelatici]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

I am not a lunatic.. OR a ZioFascist.. But I see no DEMAND from the PA to make Palis CITIZENS OF ISRAEL!! Is this a new negotiating tactic that I missed? They want their OWN state by and large why are you fixated on their rights to vote IN ISRAEL..

Seems to me -- as a NON-lunatic ---- that if they are chomping to VOTE -- they might be more interested in the PA elections that have BEEN DELAYED for -- oh about 4 or 5 years now.

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

 

[Indeependent]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

I am not a lunatic.. OR a ZioFascist.. But I see no DEMAND from the PA to make Palis CITIZENS OF ISRAEL!! Is this a new negotiating tactic that I missed? They want their OWN state by and large why are you fixated on their rights to vote IN ISRAEL..

Seems to me -- as a NON-lunatic ---- that if they are chomping to VOTE -- they might be more interested in the PA elections that have BEEN DELAYED for -- oh about 4 or 5 years now.

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

You're correct, they DID want their own state.
However, starting an Intifada to do it wasn't such a great idea.
Arrgh!

 

[Daniyel]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

By ignoring history, both modern and contemporary, you have just joined the Idiot Club.

Can't address the issue (because I post fact) so you post some nonsense. Predictable.

Facts? interesting how you are the only one know all about these unique fascinating facts.
Go ahead, I'm getting some popcorn.

 

[flacaltenn]

@flacaltenn check my latest posts here, it respond to your post as well.

I am reading your post #8 to mean that Israel should not care about what America thinks. Which is fine with me. But I'm still thinking that the Beezle is right about this -- in that the person timing this "annexing" needs to be fired. You folks need to SOLVE this issue, not aggravate it. So grab the nearest partner and dance a bit. Abbas will do. Even if he's not the prettiest girl at the Prom. Last chance to get some dignity and responsible peace-making on BOTH sides of the issues.

I'm not the US state Dept -- I think I'm more trustworthy and smarter than that -- but you don't really want to PROLONG this "occupation".. Please tell me that you don't actually WANT Gaza and what comes with it, and that you can work with Palis that want a REAL govt and economy..

The way you FIND partners for peace -- is to start rewarding those that want progress towards peace..

Their is a difference between "annexing" and unfreezing ground for residents.
Does it means this prolongs the "occupation"?
So far Israel evicted dozens of residents from Gush Katif to Yamit and even Jerusalem, it is what seems to me like a respond to Abbas and his one sided diplomatic ultimatum, but lets drop it, this land could be sold to Palestinians, this land could be even handed over to Palestinians, this doesn't even mean there are any Palestinians in there at all, and it doesn't mean this is even a Palestinian land in the first place, it is however proved that where there is no Israeli presence there is a 'fertile' ground for terrorism, crime, and what else not, with or without Abbas, the solution will be found, but its not an "instant" solution, I agree.
Abbas so far is the best option available for that and with the land price and economic issue, I think its somewhat even a wise step, I don't have much else to say, but lets try to keep it real, is there any option to negotiate by releasing again all the HAMAS terrorists Israel captured as a precondition for negotiations? this is what Abbas said last year ago (or 2 years ago) and nothing came out of these negotiations except the attempt to take over the WB by these Hamas members, Abbas realized that as well, maybe its all about politics after all, 'freezing' the settlements is as well a precondition Israel fulfilled, probably a pressure on Abbas in the political ground.

Abbas needs to stop worrying about impressing Hamas. Hamas is not gonna deliver a 2 state solution. If there was a demand to release Hamas hostages as a pre-condition, he needs to be dissuaded.

Thanks for the details on the "annexation". It's a good investment to deliver livable space and sell it. If it goes to Palestinians as well, they need better places to live than refugee camps. One good PR guy could explain the difference between taking land off the table and making better use of it. This kind of decision ought to be done WITH the PA. Maybe to the extent of setting aside the US equivalent of Section 8 (govt subsidized) housing within the annexation. Whatever is done in the old Jordanian holdings ought to be a laboratory for cooperation. Because ole Abbas and PA aren't gonna be spouting off about Hamas captives when they have joint development deals to talk with Israel about.

I'm serious about Israel getting a settlement corridor on the Jordan river for defense and homesteads. About the size of Gaza say... And making a deal to divest of ALL the rest. What kind of development if any is there now?

So far Abbas did not responded to the last proposal suggested about 4 years ago, so waiting for the Palestinians/Leadership to actually do something about it is like waiting for sun to raise from the west, Making the isolation between Hamas and Fatah is crucial but lets not forget they are the only one to benefit from the current situation, which is why I believe one-sided solution would be ideal.
Anyway, Israel also came with a statement that in every upcoming proposal or negotiation the Gush Etzion district will remain Israeli as a consensuses for ever, but I believe it is negotiable after all, depend on how serious the Palestinians are, but keep it real, they are not even considering negotiations, unless they ran out of ammo, diplomatically or military.

I'd like to "keep it real" but I seriously doubt that it is that hard to TWEET Mahmoud Abbas and invite him to address the Knesset. Or to build him an air-conditioned indoor soccer complex in Ramallah and challenge him to a tournament. You not at the end of Diplomacy when there is no engagement. After the soccer complex -- you ask him what the Palis could really USE in the West Bank and toss some Shehkals at it.

Seriously, there is this selling point of nation-state security for a Pali nation, where the PA sees Israel as a partner in secure border and being encircled by Jews is less of a threat than a blessing to their ultimate peace and security. I don't think the sales job has even begun...

 

[flacaltenn]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

I am not a lunatic.. OR a ZioFascist.. But I see no DEMAND from the PA to make Palis CITIZENS OF ISRAEL!! Is this a new negotiating tactic that I missed? They want their OWN state by and large why are you fixated on their rights to vote IN ISRAEL..

Seems to me -- as a NON-lunatic ---- that if they are chomping to VOTE -- they might be more interested in the PA elections that have BEEN DELAYED for -- oh about 4 or 5 years now.

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

It's your OPINION that a separate state is no longer possible. And since you don't vote in PA elections ( i presume) --- good luck with the sales pitch...

 

[Crystalclear]

Arabs can live in Israel, Jewish settlements in the West Bank should be allowed too.
Expanding the settlements is not such a bad idea, since it prevents wars. Look what happened with Gaza when Israel retreated.

 

[montelatici]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

I am not a lunatic.. OR a ZioFascist.. But I see no DEMAND from the PA to make Palis CITIZENS OF ISRAEL!! Is this a new negotiating tactic that I missed? They want their OWN state by and large why are you fixated on their rights to vote IN ISRAEL..

Seems to me -- as a NON-lunatic ---- that if they are chomping to VOTE -- they might be more interested in the PA elections that have BEEN DELAYED for -- oh about 4 or 5 years now.

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

It's your OPINION that a separate state is no longer possible. And since you don't vote in PA elections ( i presume) --- good luck with the sales pitch...

It's the opinion of realists and the Israeli leadership. Netanyahu in particular.

Netanyahu finally speaks his mind The Times of Israel

 

[montelatici]

"British PM: Two-state solution beginning to look impossible"

British PM Two-state solution beginning to look impossible - World Israel News Haaretz

 

[teddyearp]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

Well Monti, to answer part of your question, in the West Bank there are areas A, B, and C. These were established by the Oslo accords. Areas A are fully under Palestinian control and as far as I know, those living there do not want to vote in nor be a part of the Israeli political system. Therefore, they are not allowed to vote, as they/we hope someday they will have their own state of Palestine.

I do not believe that any part of Jerusalem is in an 'Area A' so for clarification for myself and you, I will have to ask some folks who live in Israel, Jews and non-jews when next I visit in April as I am curious how true this allegation of yours and others is true.

 

[teddyearp]

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

So, you now flip flop. They were offered their own state when it was possible, but Arafat turned it down back in the 90's.

But much has happened since then and it may be too late . . . . .

 

[montelatici]

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

So, you now flip flop. They were offered their own state when it was possible, but Arafat turned it down back in the 90's.

But much has happened since then and it may be too late . . . . .

They were not offered their own state. Nearly 50% of the Muslims and Christians were gerrymandered into a Jewish state with a slight Jewish majority. These Christians and Muslims were to be ruled by European Jews and they rightly did not want to be when they had been promised independence by the British.

 

[montelatici]

Of course they don't want to be citizens of Israel. They want to be citizens of a secular and democratic Palestine. They wanted their own state when it seemed possible. It is no longer possible, so they need to be enfranchised into the only sovereign entity that controls all the former mandate territory. It would not be appropriate to call it Israel since the majority of the people are non-Jewish Christians and Muslims.

So, you now flip flop. They were offered their own state when it was possible, but Arafat turned it down back in the 90's.

But much has happened since then and it may be too late . . . . .

They were not offered their own state. Nearly 50% of the Muslims and Christians were gerrymandered into a Jewish state with a slight Jewish majority. These Christians and Muslims were to be ruled by European Jews and they rightly did not want to be when they had been promised independence by the British.

That was in 1948. In the 90s they were offered a land ruled by the IDF with Jewish settlements that made "Palestine" a Swiss Cheese entity with no independence.

 

[Humanity]

Israel controls a population of non-Jews greater than the number of Jews. Israel only gives a small proportion of those non-Jews voting rights. There are areas in the West Bank and Jerusalem where Jews that live in the area can vote and non-Jews cannot. How in the devil is that a democracy? You Ziofascists are a bunch of lunatics.

By ignoring history, both modern and contemporary, you have just joined the Idiot Club.

Can't address the issue (because I post fact) so you post some nonsense. Predictable.

You ignore history because you were once thrown off a bus.
You are such a sensitive pussy.

And you Indeependent cannot answer simple questions...

Who's the sensitive pussy now?

 

[Humanity]

Arabs can live in Israel, Jewish settlements in the West Bank should be allowed too.
Expanding the settlements is not such a bad idea, since it prevents wars. Look what happened with Gaza when Israel retreated.

KNOB!

Yeah sorry, feeling belligerent tonight, a bit like Israeli government are 24/7

Israeli land grab is illegal...

Arabs can live in Israel so Israel can simply take land...

Have a word with yourself and think about the greater implications of that!

I don't live in the country I was born and raised in so can the country I live in go and steal land from the country I am from?

I suspect not!

 

[Daniyel]

Illegal? Who said so

 

[Humanity]

Illegal? Who said so

I think you may find it is deemed illegal by MOST civilised nations, the UN, Amnesty etc etc...

America, being the spineless cowards that they are, simply say the move to take land is an "obstacle to peace"

 

[Daniyel]

Illegal? Who said so

I think you may find it is deemed illegal by MOST civilised nations, the UN, Amnesty etc etc...

America, being the spineless cowards that they are, simply say the move to take land is an "obstacle to peace"

I didn't ask for analysis because the base for such analysis you made is wrong in the first place, again, illegal by whom?

 

[Humanity]

Illegal? Who said so

I think you may find it is deemed illegal by MOST civilised nations, the UN, Amnesty etc etc...

America, being the spineless cowards that they are, simply say the move to take land is an "obstacle to peace"

I didn't ask for analysis because the base for such analysis you made is wrong in the first place, again, illegal by whom?

I think I answered your question

 

[Daniyel]

Illegal? Who said so

I think you may find it is deemed illegal by MOST civilised nations, the UN, Amnesty etc etc...

America, being the spineless cowards that they are, simply say the move to take land is an "obstacle to peace"

I didn't ask for analysis because the base for such analysis you made is wrong in the first place, again, illegal by whom?

I think I answered your question

Not at all, you said I may find it "deemed illegal by MOST civilized nations including the UN and amnesty" and I didn't because it is not illegal at all.
So again, where is YOUR evidence for these statements you made?