Turkish PM clears way for Iraq assault

[ekrem]

Dude, you think you got it all figured out, do you? I guarantee you that if Turkey attacked the US, all you'd hear from THIS country is "How far to Istanbul?"

Your arrogance and lack of sound reasoning will have you hiding butt-in-the-air in a bomb shelter. Different calibre? Pffft ... heard that shit about Iraq. One third world shithole is the same as the other. And it would take the US Armed Forces about as long to roll up your "different callibre" as it did the vaunted Republican Guard.

Get a clue.

Turkey is not attacking USA. Makeing war is in initiative of USA decision by takeing sides with Anti-Turkish terrorists. In that case it will be end of USA presece in our pivotal region.
What shall i do with republican guards of Iraq? You have no clue about Turkish army from your American province.

@onedomino
Sane, if not moderate. Look into the mirror and in the face of buddies like GunnyL becomeing radical minded seeking for end-solution once your people die by Terrorists.
USA is responsible for every Turkish death haveing its roots from Terrorists based in Iraq. Bombing Kurdish Ansar Al-Islam in North-Iraq but not PKK is related to what logic?
To give a shit about Turkish deaths.... And in same time blocking Turkey for years to kill these muders itself. Death count of civilists in meantime rising. For what? American secundar interests, where Turkish primary interests of simple things like live must be undervalued under USA interests from 10.000 km away. Comeing unilaterally from this distance, but blocking killing of PKK 100 KM away.
Sure as hell American opionion is down. You are jointly responsible for every Turkish death.

 

[ekrem]

Oh, and before i forget: PKK comes with Glocks, M-16 from Blackwater killing Turks.
Massive US wepaon stocks found by captured PKK-Terrorists.
We should praise public opinion about USA, in which world do you live?

 

[onedomino]

Turkey is not attacking USA. Makeing war is in initiative of USA decision by takeing sides with Anti-Turkish terrorists. In that case it will be end of USA presece in our pivotal region.
What shall i do with republican guards of Iraq? You have no clue about Turkish army from your American province.

@onedomino
Sane, if not moderate. Look into the mirror and in the face of buddies like GunnyL becomeing radical minded seeking for end-solution once your people die by Terrorists.
USA is responsible for every Turkish death haveing its roots from Terrorists based in Iraq. Bombing Kurdish Ansar Al-Islam in North-Iraq but not PKK is related to what logic?
To give a shit about Turkish deaths.... And in same time blocking Turkey for years to kill these muders itself. Death count of civilists in meantime rising. For what? American secundar interests, where Turkish primary interests of simple things like live must be undervalued under USA interests from 10.000 km away. Comeing unilaterally from this distance, but blocking killing of PKK 100 KM away.
Sure as hell American opionion is down. You are jointly responsible for every Turkish death.

That's crazy talk, canavar. The PKK and Turkey were at each other's throats long before America was even in Iraq. It sounds to me like you actually believe the lies you read in the Turk media.

 

[ekrem]

That's crazy talk, canavar. The PKK and Turkey were at each other's throats long before America was even in Iraq. It sounds to me like you actually believe the lies you read in the Turk media.

I believe in statistics which say, that 2002 before PKK could reorgaize in North-Iraq by USA umbrella, Terrorist death tolls in Turkey stood at 3.

Also i trust statements by our army saying massice A4, C4, Hydrosulfate comeing from North-Iraq.

Also i trust Turkish police finding American Glocks, M-16 from captured or killed terrorists.

THESE ARE FACTS, which every Turk awaks in morning.

 

[onedomino]

I believe in statistics which say, that 2002 before PKK could reorgaize in North-Iraq by USA umbrella, Terrorist death tolls in Turkey stood at 3.

Also i trust statements by our army saying massice A4, C4, Hydrosulfate comeing from North-Iraq.

Also i trust Turkish police finding American Glocks, M-16 from captured or killed terrorists.

THESE ARE FACTS, which every Turk awaks in morning.

How is that evidence of America involvement? There are hundreds of thousands of M-16s in Iraq. It surprises you that some have found there way to the PKK? It is completely different than IEDs and surface-to-air-missiles from Iran to Iraq. Virtually anyone could get ahold of a M-16 in Iraq. And the Kurds were previously armed by America to fight against Saddam. You know that. But the general hatred of America in Turkey is so strong that people like you will believe any lie expressed in the Turk media. Anti-Americanism in Turkey is no recent development. Try to make sense. What reason would America have for supporting PKK attacks against Turkey? There is none. Give us the rationale. If the PKK was attacking Iran that would be a different matter, but they are not. America has declared that the PKK is a terrorist organization and you say we are helping them attack Turkey? That is a lie that you read in the Turk media.

 

[onedomino]

I believe in statistics which say, that 2002 before PKK could reorgaize in North-Iraq by USA umbrella, Terrorist death tolls in Turkey stood at 3.

Where do those statistics come from? The PKK formed in 1974 and armed combat with Turk troops first occurred in 1984. So in the struggle between Turkey and the PKK from 1984 to 2002 there were only three deaths in Turkey? That's a lie. More than 30,000 people have reportedly been killed in the conflict and that did not all happen since 2002. Especially considering Turkey has already invaded northern Iraq in the past in 1995 and 1997. Both times the military incursions failed to significantly affect the PKK.

A couple of examples of the outrageous crap that has appeared in the Turk media; from 2005:

Consider the Islamist newspaper Yeni Safak, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's favorite. A Jan. 9 story claimed that U.S. forces were tossing so many Iraqi bodies into the Euphrates that mullahs there had issued a fatwa prohibiting residents from eating its fish. Yeni Safak has also repeatedly claimed that U.S. forces used chemical weapons in Fallujah. One of its columnists has alleged that U.S. soldiers raped women and children there and left their bodies in the streets to be eaten by dogs. Among the paper's "scoops" have been the 1,000 Israeli soldiers deployed alongside U.S. forces in Iraq, and that U.S. forces have been harvesting the innards of dead Iraqis for sale on the U.S. "organ market."

It's not much better in the secular press. The mainstream Hurriyet has accused Israeli hit squads of assassinating Turkish security personnel in Mosul, and the U.S. of starting an occupation of Indonesia under the guise of humanitarian assistance. At Sabah, a columnist last fall accused the U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Eric Edelman, of letting his "ethnic origins"--guess what, he's Jewish--determine his behavior. Mr. Edelman is indeed the all-too-rare foreign-service officer who takes seriously his obligation to defend America's image and interests abroad. The intellectual climate in which he's operating has gone so mad that he actually felt compelled to organize a conference call with scientists from the U.S. Geological Survey to explain that secret U.S. nuclear testing did not cause the recent tsunami. http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006299

http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2005-03/a-2005-03-21-2-1.cfm
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/fellows/taspinar20051116.htm
http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=149

 

[Gunny]

Turkey is not attacking USA. Makeing war is in initiative of USA decision by takeing sides with Anti-Turkish terrorists. In that case it will be end of USA presece in our pivotal region.
What shall i do with republican guards of Iraq? You have no clue about Turkish army from your American province.

@onedomino
Sane, if not moderate. Look into the mirror and in the face of buddies like GunnyL becomeing radical minded seeking for end-solution once your people die by Terrorists.
USA is responsible for every Turkish death haveing its roots from Terrorists based in Iraq. Bombing Kurdish Ansar Al-Islam in North-Iraq but not PKK is related to what logic?
To give a shit about Turkish deaths.... And in same time blocking Turkey for years to kill these muders itself. Death count of civilists in meantime rising. For what? American secundar interests, where Turkish primary interests of simple things like live must be undervalued under USA interests from 10.000 km away. Comeing unilaterally from this distance, but blocking killing of PKK 100 KM away.
Sure as hell American opionion is down. You are jointly responsible for every Turkish death.

The US is taking sides with terrorists? 100% utter bullshit. The US just isn't going to allow your pitiful little army to come waltzing in and we'll see whose presence is ended. You'll have your little dream of being "special" whacked for another hundred years.

You're living in a dreamworld dude.

 

[ekrem]

Where do those statistics come from? The PKK formed in 1974 and armed combat with Turk troops first occurred in 1984. So in the struggle between Turkey and the PKK from 1984 to 2002 there were only three deaths in Turkey? That's a lie. More than 30,000 people have reportedly been killed in the conflict and that did not all happen since 2002. Especially considering Turkey has already invaded northern Iraq in the past in 1995 and 1997. Both times the military incursions failed to significantly affect the PKK.

A couple of examples of the outrageous crap that has appeared in the Turk media; from 2005:



http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2005-03/a-2005-03-21-2-1.cfm
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/fellows/taspinar20051116.htm
http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=149

Onedomino. In 2002 year, terrorist attacks resulted in 3 deaths total. What do you not understand with the date 2002?
Turkish army had crushed PKK in late 80s period, so that PKK had to flee from Turkey and found safe haven into Iran, Syria and Iraq.
Iran and Syria now cooperate with Turkey against PKK/PJAK and kill them.
In late 90s period we crushed PKK also in North-Iraq with 2 major invasions in 1995 and 1997.
You call these invasions a failure, but if you can understand German language, here is alink from 1997 of a german newspaper describing results of 1997 invasion.
We killed 816 Terrorists and captured many more in 1997 invasion. Our own Army deaths by these 1997 operation was 15.
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/97/10/14/topnews/kurden.html
That German link decribes 1997 invasion in period September-October.

In May-July 1997 we also went into Iraq and these time killed 2.730 Terrorists and captured 415 alive.
In 1997 with invasions into Iraq there are these total statistics:

PKK Losses: 3.546 dead Terrorists, and near to 1.000 Terrorists captured/wounded.
Turkish Army: 46 dead, and 492 wounded.

Same with 1995 invasion.

From 1998 to 2003 the region turned into a peaceful place. PKK could either flee into Iran nor into Syria anymore.
The Army did its job. And PKK declared in 2000 unilateral "peace", after Turkey now also captured the PKK-leader in Kenia/Africa.

Starting from 2003, with US control in Iraq, PKK was reorganized, acquired new members, new weapons.
They changed tactics and started using mines, bombs, remote controlled explosives, and with these tactics they have been more successful compared to their old tactics of the 1990s.

Since the declaration of cease-fire on August 2000, aside from a few isolated incidents, the armed conflict had come to a complete halt. Since 2004, there has been an increase in PKK attacks on the Turkish military, police, and governmental targets
(...)
During the 2003-2005 period, the total security personnel lost (soldier, police (21), village guard (22)) is 246

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#1999_-_2004

PKK again began Terrorist attacks in late 2003, early 2004.
These new attacks are directly related to USA occupation of Iraq granting PKK the USA umbrella of not attacking them and closeing eyes of USA military and Barzani against PKK activities there. They again set-up logistic-camps, training-camps and recrutation-camps. All under the eye of USA military.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey has just called Turkish Ambassador Sensoy from Washington back to Ankara.
The visit of our Navy General to USA is cancelled.

 

[roomy]

I wish the Turkish terrorists would leave Cyprus and pay reparations to the families of those they have murdered, imprisoned and displaced.It would be a good start and may get them a foot in the door as far as joining the EU is concerned.

 

[ekrem]

I wish the Turkish terrorists would leave Cyprus and pay reparations to the families of those they have murdered, imprisoned and displaced.It would be a good start and may get them a foot in the door as far as joining the EU is concerned.

Does not have anything related to reality. Turkey is guarantee power of Cyprus toether with England and Greece.
Turkish invasion of Cyprus was legitimate by triparty-Agreements and by UN legislation to stop massacres on Turks by Greek Junta in that time in Athens which seeked ENOSIS (Reunification in Greek terminology) on the island and Greece.

Turkish permanent presence however beyond ensureing security for Cypriot Turks is illegal. But we give a shit. There are 40.000 Soldiers on this tiny Island makeing the island the most militarized geography in the world. Come and throw us out !

 

[roomy]

Does not have anything related to reality. Turkey is guarantee power of Cyprus toether with England and Greece.
Turkish invasion of Cyprus was legitimate by triparty-Agreements and by UN legislation to stop massacres on Turks by Greek Junta in that time in Athens which seeked ENOSIS (Reunification in Greek terminology) on the island and Greece.

Turkish permanent presence however beyond ensureing security for Cypriot Turks is illegal. But we give a shit. There are 40.000 Soldiers on this tiny Island makeing the island the most militarized geography in the world. Come and throw us out !

After your last ignorant outburst do you need me to explain to you why Turkey is hated by the rest of the world?

 

[ekrem]

After your last ignorant outburst do you need me to explain to you why Turkey is hated by the rest of the world?

By whom is Turkey hated? By Armenians, PKK-Kurds?
We give a shit. We have enough friends in the world. So speak foryourself and not in name of World community.

 

[roomy]

By whom is Turkey hated? By Armenians, PKK-Kurds?
We give a shit. We have enough friends in the world. So speak foryourself and not in name of World community.

Then tell me why you are not allowed to join the EU?

 

[ekrem]

Then tell me why you are not allowed to join the EU?

You seem not to be the brightest kid around the block.
Where is the connection between Turkish-EU accession and EU hate against Turkey?

Italy, Spain, UK, Sweden, Poland, Portugal etc. all are supporters of Turkish accession into EU. There are some countries like France who think that Turkish accession will limit their power and stretch EU into solely domestic market philosophy, rather then political union.
In these circles objecting Turkish EU accession it is also said, once Turkey joins EU, there will be an EU of two-speeds centered in Center-Europe (political, military integration) and the other speed around this Central Europe.

There are EU states like UK, Spain which reject idea of a Brussels outstanding national sovereignity.
I do not expect from you living in your American province to know about Turkey-EU relations, and see it just normal in interpreting this relationship as generalized EU hate against Turkey.

Simply put, once Turkey enters EU it will outpower France in all Inter-EU institutions from EU-Parliament to EU-commission, as Turkey by its size will send more Parliamentarians and commissioners in these Institutions.
"Grande Nation" can not even live with reality, that Germany is outpowering France in these institutions, so it can also not live with the idea of a Turkey on same level as Germany and smashing France to 3rd place.

Also Turkey will get major Agrar-Subventions. France is currently biggest recepiant of Agrar-Subventions. Part of these subventions will be redirected to Turkey, as Turkish geography with Euphrates and Tigris will be granary of EU in terms of fruits, not by wheat etc...

Simply as that. France adopting Armenian resolution is directly connected at pissing Turkey in the perspective of Turkish-Accession.
This is not about hate, but about power politics and economic interests.

 

[roomy]

You poor deluded ignorant Turkish prat, I am English living in England and for your information caravan, for the Turks to be allowed to join the EU they have to first of all take their murdering terrorist arseholes out of Cyprus, it is a pivotal point.The occupation of the North of Cyprus is condemned by the west as an illegal act.Put that in your bubble pipe and smoke it.

 

[ekrem]

You poor deluded ignorant Turkish prat, I am English living in England and for your information caravan, for the Turks to be allowed to join the EU they have to first of all take their murdering terrorist arseholes out of Cyprus, it is a pivotal point.The occupation of the North of Cyprus is condemned by the west as an illegal act.Put that in your bubble pipe and smoke it.

English-man, i do not have to describe you the politics of your country to Turkish EU-accession or do i have too? England is greatest lobbyist of Turkish EU accession right before Italy and Spain.
This is reasoned to 2 things:

- excellent England - Turkey relations
- to win with Turkey an ally within EU institutions especially gainst countries like France

Brown does not have any other policy regarding Turkey then Blair had.
Look what your Foreign MInister Milliband writes:

Turkey is vital to Europe's future
By David Miliband
05/09/2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/09/05/do0502.xml

UK always jumps in for Turkey in EU meetings regarding Turkey.

 

[Gunny]

English-man, i do not have to describe you the politics of your country to Turkish EU-accession or do i have too? England is greatest lobbyist of Turkish EU accession right before Italy and Spain.
This is reasoned to 2 things:

- excellent England - Turkey relations
- to win with Turkey an ally within EU institutions especially gainst countries like France

Brown does not have any other policy regarding Turkey then Blair had.
Look what your Foreign MInister Milliband writes:

Turkey is vital to Europe's future
By David Miliband
05/09/2007
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/09/05/do0502.xml

UK always jumps in for Turkey in EU meetings regarding Turkey.

I'll make this easy for you, Turk ... You're stupid, and so is every man, woman and child in your country that thinks your military can defeat the US military in the field. But you feel free to come right on out and play OUR game.

You rwhole argument is nothing but wishful thinking and hot air.

 

[ekrem]

I'll make this easy for you, Turk ... You're stupid, and so is every man, woman and child in your country that thinks your military can defeat the US military in the field. But you feel free to come right on out and play OUR game.

You rwhole argument is nothing but wishful thinking and hot air.

Seventy percent of America’s air cargo for the war effort goes through Turkey, along with 30 percent of the fuel. Ninety-five percent of mine-resistant, ambush-protected heavy vehicles being flown into Iraq go through Turkey as well, the secretary said. In response to the passage of yesterday’s damning resolution, Turkey has threatened to cut off its support of coalition operations in Iraq, a move that has enormous implications for American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines in Iraq and must be taken seriously, Gates said.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=47761


I can say, that over 50% of USA war machinery is dependent on security and cost-terms to Turkey.
Will be nice for Al-Qaeda shooting down heavy and slow air-cargo traffic with simple Kalashnikovs and shoulder-fired missiles.
As i said, Turkey has many cards to play.
This card can be played without strategic re-orientation of Turkish Republic.

 

[Gunny]

Seventy percent of America’s air cargo for the war effort goes through Turkey, along with 30 percent of the fuel. Ninety-five percent of mine-resistant, ambush-protected heavy vehicles being flown into Iraq go through Turkey as well, the secretary said. In response to the passage of yesterday’s damning resolution, Turkey has threatened to cut off its support of coalition operations in Iraq, a move that has enormous implications for American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines in Iraq and must be taken seriously, Gates said.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=47761


I can say, that over 50% of USA war machinery is dependent on security and cost-terms to Turkey.
Will be nice for Al-Qaeda shooting down heavy and slow air-cargo traffic with simple Kalashnikovs and shoulder-fired missiles.
As i said, Turkey has many cards to play.
This card can be played without strategic re-orientation of Turkish Republic.

Paper tiger. You are a convenience, dude, and being used as such. The job can get done without you.

And I can only LMFAO at that 50% bullshit. Dude, face facts ... you aren't important. The Cold War is over. Shut up already.