Trump to Greet Netanyahu by Abandoning ‘2-state’ Doctrine

[Coyote]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

 

[P F Tinmore]

who invaded the nascent Jewish state immediately after its establishment

Do you have proof of that?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

It will never be one state because the overwhelming majority of Israelis and Palestinians oppose one state, and it will clearly not be two states in the foreseeable future because the Palestinians don't have a government that can credibly offer peace to Israel.

 

[Coyote]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

It will never be one state because the overwhelming majority of Israelis and Palestinians oppose one state, and it will clearly not be two states in the foreseeable future because the Palestinians don't have a government that can credibly offer peace to Israel.

So what is Netanyahu aiming for exactly? His settlement building is clearly going to make a 2 state solution utenable. Indefinate inequality isn't going to stem the violence.

 

[Mindful]

who invaded the nascent Jewish state immediately after its establishment

Do you have proof of that?

Don't bother me with your silly questions.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

It will never be one state because the overwhelming majority of Israelis and Palestinians oppose one state, and it will clearly not be two states in the foreseeable future because the Palestinians don't have a government that can credibly offer peace to Israel.

So what is Netanyahu aiming for exactly? His settlement building is clearly going to make a 2 state solution utenable. Indefinate inequality isn't going to stem the violence.

First, Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria take up less than 2% of the land, so the claim that they make a Palestinian state impossible is nonsense. It makes no sense to talk about inequality since better than 95% of the Arabs in Judea and Samaria live in areas A and B which are under PA jurisdiction.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

 

[P F Tinmore]

who invaded the nascent Jewish state immediately after its establishment

Do you have proof of that?

Don't bother me with your silly questions.

Just what I thought. Another Israeli BS talking point.

 

[Shusha]

So what is Netanyahu aiming for exactly? His settlement building is clearly going to make a 2 state solution utenable.

There is nothing about "settlement" building, as it has been done in the past 25 years, which makes a 2 state solution untenable. In fact, quite to the contrary, Israel has been exceedingly careful to ensure this is true.

Most of the settlement building is expansion of existing towns and cities along the borders of Area C which Israel never intended to give up in a final agreement at any rate. These expansions do not prevent a Palestinian State. Small communities of Jewish people in an eventual Palestinian State also does not prevent a two state solution, no more than primarily Arab communities in Israel prevent Israel from being a state.

Now, it might prevent a Palestinian state from being everything they asked for, but they've been offered everything they (supposedly asked for) so many times, the head spins. And its refused every time. Also: Gaza.

As for what Netanyahu intends? Well, its rather obvious, isn't it? Since the likelihood of a negotiated solution seems to have disappeared, he is asserting sovereignty over those sections of Area C which he intends to keep as part of Israel. In other words, he is unilaterally deciding what the negotiated solution might have looked like and making it what it is.

Personally, I think if he was smart (and he strikes me as smart), he will keep the "two state solution option" open as long as possible, while continuing to assert control and authority over those parts of the disputed territory which he wants under Israeli sovereignty.

This leaves him with all the options open. He can still offer a two state solution. He can annex all of Area C, or those parts he intends to make part of Israel. He can withdraw from Areas A and B and those parts of C that are not practical to keep. He can begin to make nice to the Palestinians in Area C or the parts of Area C he wants (there are not so many of them) -- granting them citizenship, registered land ownership, infrastructure and services.

In other words, he's going to bring an end to the argument of whose land is whose. Just like with Gaza -- there will be no dispute about what land is under sovereign Israel and which is not. There will be a clear defining line. And he is going to draw it.

Indefinate inequality isn't going to stem the violence.

I think this is a red herring people like to throw out there to keep Israel the "bad guy". Once Area C, or parts of it, are incorporated into Israel proper there will be no inequality between Israeli citizens of Arab ethnicity and those of Jewish. There will very likely still be some systemic (not systematic -- systemic) separation and discrimination, but there will be no inequality under the law. (There isn't now in Israel).

 

[Shusha]

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 16595668, member: 21837"
The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.[/QUOTE]

Even if this were true (and its not). This is exactly the stated goal of both Fatah and Hamas. So why the double standard?

Its either a immoral goal for both people, or a perfectly moral and reasonable goal for both people. Why is it wrong for one people and not for the other?

 

[montelatici]

who invaded the nascent Jewish state immediately after its establishment

Do you have proof of that?

Don't bother me with your silly questions.

The Jews invaded the Arab portion of the partition. The Arab League intervened to prevent the Jews form ethnically cleansing the Muslims and Christians from Palestine. All of the combat took place in the Arab partition or in the international partition, not within the Jewish partition.

The Jews had been attacking Jaffa (the largest Arab city and with a large and wealthy Christian population) for months before the city surrendered on 13 May 1948, a day before Israel declared independence and before the Arab League's intervention. The Jews were the aggressors, you have been fed a bunch of propaganda.


"Although the facts about Jaffa's geopolitical disadvantages vis-à-vis Jewish military superiority in the central coastal plain of Palestine are well known, questions remain about the rapidity and intensity of the collapse, particularly in the societal context. Its immediate cause was the military pressure to which Jaffa had been subjected since December 1947 and which peaked in late April 1948.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13531042.2011.553064?src=recsys&

 

[Mindful]

who invaded the nascent Jewish state immediately after its establishment

Do you have proof of that?

Don't bother me with your silly questions.

The Jews invaded the Arab portion of the partition. The Arab League intervened to prevent the Jews form ethnically cleansing the Muslims and Christians from Palestine. All of the combat took place in the Arab partition or in the international partition, not within the Jewish partition.

The Jews had been attacking Jaffa (the largest Arab city and with a large and wealthy Christian population) for months before the city surrendered on 13 May 1948, a day before Israel declared independence and before the Arab League's intervention. The Jews were the aggressors, you have been fed a bunch of propaganda.


"Although the facts about Jaffa's geopolitical disadvantages vis-à-vis Jewish military superiority in the central coastal plain of Palestine are well known, questions remain about the rapidity and intensity of the collapse, particularly in the societal context. Its immediate cause was the military pressure to which Jaffa had been subjected since December 1947 and which peaked in late April 1948.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13531042.2011.553064?src=recsys&

Why do you bother? I've made it clear I'm not interested in you or anything you have to say. Don't you get the message?

 

[P F Tinmore]

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 16595668, member: 21837"
The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

Even if this were true (and its not). This is exactly the stated goal of both Fatah and Hamas. So why the double standard?

Its either a immoral goal for both people, or a perfectly moral and reasonable goal for both people. Why is it wrong for one people and not for the other?[/QUOTE]
The Palestinians want all of Palestine.

Israel wants all of Palestine.

Double standard?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 16595668, member: 21837"
The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

Even if this were true (and its not). This is exactly the stated goal of both Fatah and Hamas. So why the double standard?

Its either a immoral goal for both people, or a perfectly moral and reasonable goal for both people. Why is it wrong for one people and not for the other?

The Palestinians want all of Palestine.

Israel wants all of Palestine.

Double standard?[/QUOTE]

Some Palestinians want all of Israel. And some Israelis want all of Eretz Yisroel.

BTW, you don't speak for all Palestinians. Not only are you not willing to go there to fight for what you believe in so much, you have never even visited there. Hanan Ashrawi believes in a 2-state solution, and I'll take her opinion over yours. She lives there and does more for the cause than someone typing on a message board.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

lol Their constant expansion of "settlements" has reached all of 1.8% of Judea and Samaria. At this rate they will have all of it before the end of the millenium.

 

[montelatici]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

lol Their constant expansion of "settlements" has reached all of 1.8% of Judea and Samaria. At this rate they will have all of it before the end of the millenium.

You mean 39%

"The 2 percent figure also obscures a perhaps more significant reality. 23 Jewish local authorities operate in the West Bank: “three municipalities, fourteen local councils and six regional councils.” According to a 2009 United Nations report, 39 percent of the West Bank falls under these authorities’ jurisdiction. "

How much Palestinian land do Israeli settlements really eat up?

 

[rylah]

He said 'UN report' he said it all
Let's see how much funding will it keeps at the end of the year, and how many more illegal EU settlements it supports.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

lol Their constant expansion of "settlements" has reached all of 1.8% of Judea and Samaria. At this rate they will have all of it before the end of the millenium.

You mean 39%

"The 2 percent figure also obscures a perhaps more significant reality. 23 Jewish local authorities operate in the West Bank: “three municipalities, fourteen local councils and six regional councils.” According to a 2009 United Nations report, 39 percent of the West Bank falls under these authorities’ jurisdiction. "

How much Palestinian land do Israeli settlements really eat up?

No, the fact is that all the Israeli communities in Judea and Samaria collectively take up only 1.8% of the land. These are quite distinct from the various Civil Administration buildings that are necessary to administer area C. This is why the claim that these communities stand in the way of peace or a final status agreement is pure bullshit.

 

[montelatici]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

lol Their constant expansion of "settlements" has reached all of 1.8% of Judea and Samaria. At this rate they will have all of it before the end of the millenium.

You mean 39%

"The 2 percent figure also obscures a perhaps more significant reality. 23 Jewish local authorities operate in the West Bank: “three municipalities, fourteen local councils and six regional councils.” According to a 2009 United Nations report, 39 percent of the West Bank falls under these authorities’ jurisdiction. "

How much Palestinian land do Israeli settlements really eat up?

No, the fact is that all the Israeli communities in Judea and Samaria collectively take up only 1.8% of the land. These are quite distinct from the various Civil Administration buildings that are necessary to administer area C. This is why the claim that these communities stand in the way of peace or a final status agreement is pure bullshit.

No they take up 39% of the land as confirmed.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Let's get back on topic.

Netanyahu has never given more than lip service to a 2-state solution.

If it's to be one state - what do you think Israel is aiming for?

The Zionist's stated goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Their constant expansion of settlements is just a continuation of their hundred year old goal.

lol Their constant expansion of "settlements" has reached all of 1.8% of Judea and Samaria. At this rate they will have all of it before the end of the millenium.

You mean 39%

"The 2 percent figure also obscures a perhaps more significant reality. 23 Jewish local authorities operate in the West Bank: “three municipalities, fourteen local councils and six regional councils.” According to a 2009 United Nations report, 39 percent of the West Bank falls under these authorities’ jurisdiction. "

How much Palestinian land do Israeli settlements really eat up?

No, the fact is that all the Israeli communities in Judea and Samaria collectively take up only 1.8% of the land. These are quite distinct from the various Civil Administration buildings that are necessary to administer area C. This is why the claim that these communities stand in the way of peace or a final status agreement is pure bullshit.

No they take up 39% of the land as confirmed.

Nope, 1.8% and that infuriates anti Israelis who want something to complain about.