Top Priorities

[Sky Dancer]

We're big on puppet governments and the Iraqi people know it.

Your proclamation does not make it so.... but nice try

Your belief of a myth does not bring it into being

No amount of military intervention will work in the middle east because we lack legitimacy with the people there. We have behaved lilke imperialists and occupiers.

 

[DiamondDave]

We're big on puppet governments and the Iraqi people know it.

Your proclamation does not make it so.... but nice try

Your belief of a myth does not bring it into being

No amount of military intervention will work in the middle east because we lack legitimacy with the people there.

And your opinion on the matter, again, does not make it fact....

I know you wingers like to try and force your perceptions and feelings as fact... just not going to let you get away with it... sorry

 

[Kat]

We stayed in Germany and Japan for five years following their surrender in WWII. As a result, we left them with stable, functioning governments and as allies and friends of the USA and as countries equipped and able to prosper and become productive and peaceful nations in the world community.

The German and Japanese people were up to the task. It remains to be seen whether the Iraqi people are up to the task. But don't confuse the willingness of the victor to leave their foe in a better place as being the same thing as nation building. It isn't.

It is only nation building when we attempt to do it without first defeating the enemy.

You can't compare WWII with what we've done in Iraq. We completely screwed up there. The Iraqi people are not better off then they were with Saddam, and we have mushrooming terrorism.

I seriously doubt you would find too many Iraqi people that would tell you they are not better off than they were with Saddam. That is ludicrous.

 

[Sky Dancer]

We should have stuck to our task of going after Al-Qaeda instead of going off on an imperial mission. We had the support of the world at 9/11 and we squandered it starting an unnecessary and costly war in Iraq.

Our economy is failing, in part, because we cannot afford two wars.

 

[DiamondDave]

We should have stuck to our task of going after Al-Qaeda instead of going off on an imperial mission.

Our economy is failing, in part, because we cannot afford two wars.

Perhaps you are just thick headed.. or maybe a bit mentally challenged

Your feelings on the matter do not make it right, fact, or even close to accurate

And perhaps also you should understand the meanings of words like imperialism and military occupation before you throw them around wildly in an attempt to make it look like you know what you are talking about

 

[Foxfyre]

Old Rocks and others refuse to acknowledge how bad life was for the Iraqis under Saddam Hussein. And they continue to naively believe that the money we spent in Iraq has deprived Americans of essential goods and services.

He is correct that things are not good for the Christians and other non-Muslim groups in Iraq. The militants have been dealing them a lot of grief with orders to convert to Islam or die. Thousands have left and others are laying low. This is the huge problem in most Islamic countries. You agree to be Muslim or you are treated quite badly and your freedoms are quite restricted if you are allowed to be there at all.

Things were not good for religious minorities under Saddam however, and any Christian who presumed to be critical of much of anything became an immediate target. Many Christians were killed with the Kurds when Saddam tried to exterminate the Kurds.

The no fly zone after all was to keep him from committing mayhem on the Kurds in the north and those living in northern Kuwait.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Talk to the Iraqis about whether they are better off or not. The country is in chaos and we are pulling out. We go someplace, make an expensive mess and leave.

 

[Kat]

Talk to the Iraqis about whether they are better off or not.

We have heard plenty from them..and they say they are better off compared to Saddam being in control.

How can you think differently? Have you not see, read, watched what those people went through under him? Come on Sky.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Talk to the Iraqis about whether they are better off or not.

We have heard plenty from them..and they say they are better off compared to Saddam being in control.

How can you think differently? Have you not see, read, watched what those people went through under him? Come on Sky.

Iraq will be judged a failure by history. The Iraq war hasn't been won anymore than the Vietnam war was won. We've repeated the same failed pattern.

 

[Kat]

Talk to the Iraqis about whether they are better off or not.

We have heard plenty from them..and they say they are better off compared to Saddam being in control.

How can you think differently? Have you not see, read, watched what those people went through under him? Come on Sky.

Iraq will be judged a failure by history.

If so, it STILL doesn't mean they are not better off without Saddam.

 

[Sky Dancer]

We have heard plenty from them..and they say they are better off compared to Saddam being in control.

How can you think differently? Have you not see, read, watched what those people went through under him? Come on Sky.

Iraq will be judged a failure by history.

If so, it STILL doesn't mean they are not better off without Saddam.

The world may be better off without Saddam according to Cheney, (who has zero credility) but the average Iraqi's life was better when they had a stable country, however terrible the dictator. Saddam kept the sectarian factions in line.

I'm a dove anyway. I'd rather see the US military involved in humanitarian efforts like helping the flood victims in Pakistan and creating good will than killing people and occupying their countries.

 

[DiamondDave]

Talk to the Iraqis about whether they are better off or not. The country is in chaos and we are pulling out. We go someplace, make an expensive mess and leave.

And we're SURE you have spoken to Iraqis and soldiers and American civilians who have been there to make your stance

Funny thing is that I DO talk to soldiers (some I have served with and some who serve with my brother), former Iraqi nationals (3 of which I have worked with), and civilian workers (I have 2 friends working contract jobs over there RIGHT NOW)...

 

[Kat]

Iraq will be judged a failure by history.

If so, it STILL doesn't mean they are not better off without Saddam.

The world may be better off without Saddam but the average Iraqi's life was better when they had a stable country, however terrible the dictator. Saddam kept the sectarian factions in line.

I'm a dove anyway. I'd rather see the US military involved in humanitarian efforts like helping the flood victims in Pakistan and creating good will than killing people and occupying their countries.

I'd rather see that too, but I am a realist. I know life is tough. It was tough for my dad when he served in WW2. It was tough for my husband when he served.
Life is tough.

IMO you are dead wrong about Saddam.

 

[Foxfyre]

By April, 2004, a majority of Iraqis were wanting the US military to go home. Fortunately, their leadership knew what folly that would be and urged us to stay. It was pretty much the love/hate relationship we had with the Germans and Japanese as those countries slowly put themselves back together after WWII. They didn't want the allies there. But it was a necessary 'evil' in order to re-estabish a working government and stabilize themselves.

They did have an advantage, that the Iraqis don't, that there were no evil forces working to keep them from doing that, and they weren't saddled with a religion that demands oppressive dscipline. And neither Japan nor Germany were constantly watching Arab television that was relentlessly bashing the Americans.

But evenso, The Iraqis didn't want Saddam Hussein back:

(A USAToday/CNN/Gallup poll) shows that most continue to say the hardships suffered to depose Saddam Hussein were worth it. Half say they and their families are better off than they were under Saddam. And a strong majority say they are more free to worship and to speak.

USATODAY.com - Poll: Iraqis out of patience

The Americans are more acceptable and more accepted there in 2010:

An Iraqi acquaintance once characterized his country’s trajectory over the last six years since the U.S. invasion as “always halfway down a path to either democracy… or total collapse.” Recent high profile attacks and the Iraqi government’s incapacity to prevent them raise the specter of the latter scenario. Yet the horrific bombings on Iraqi institutions over the last several months mask something nascent but increasingly audible in Iraqi society: an emerging vox populi that found potent expression, as in provincial elections last January.

We heard these voices in Baghdad last month in our discussions with Iraqi civic leaders.

The message is unmistakable: we are sick of sectarian driven politics and the havoc they have rought on our nation and social fabric. We want access to clean water, competent schooling for our kids, access to healthcare and jobs.

Aware that American attention is shifting elsewhere—the Afghan war, economic woes at home, ongoing and emerging threats from countries like Iran and Yemen—Iraqis are nervously contemplating how much U.S. support they can expect going forward. On what essential issues should an overburdened America concentrate in order to leave behind a stable, secure Iraq that is at peace with its neighbors, and just and accountable to its own citizens?
http://www.usip.org/files/resources/PB 3 Iraqi Voices Entering 2010.pdf

 

[DiamondDave]

Talk to the Iraqis about whether they are better off or not.

We have heard plenty from them..and they say they are better off compared to Saddam being in control.

How can you think differently? Have you not see, read, watched what those people went through under him? Come on Sky.

Iraq will be judged a failure by history. The Iraq war hasn't been won anymore than the Vietnam war was won. We've repeated the same failed pattern.

Again... your bad habit of trying to portray your feelings as fact... sorry, winger, but they are not

 

[Sky Dancer]

If so, it STILL doesn't mean they are not better off without Saddam.

The world may be better off without Saddam but the average Iraqi's life was better when they had a stable country, however terrible the dictator. Saddam kept the sectarian factions in line.

I'm a dove anyway. I'd rather see the US military involved in humanitarian efforts like helping the flood victims in Pakistan and creating good will than killing people and occupying their countries.

I'd rather see that too, but I am a realist. I know life is tough. It was tough for my dad when he served in WW2. It was tough for my husband when he served.
Life is tough.

IMO you are dead wrong about Saddam.

Saddam was evil. The world is better off now that he's in hell. That doesn't mean the average Iraqi citizen is better off then they were before the war. The country is still a mess.


Iraq has between 25 and 50 percent unemployment, a dysfunctional parliament, rampant disease, an epidemic of mental illness, and sprawling slums. The killing of innocent people has become part of daily life. What a havoc the United States has wreaked in Iraq.

UN-HABITAT, an agency of the United Nations, recently published a 218-page report entitled State of the World’s Cities, 2010-2011. The report is full of statistics on the status of cities around the world and their demographics. It defines slum dwellers as those living in urban centers without one of the following: durable structures to protect them from climate, sufficient living area, sufficient access to water, access to sanitation facilities, and freedom from eviction.

Almost intentionally hidden in these statistics is one shocking fact about urban Iraqi populations. For the past few decades, prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, the percentage of the urban population living in slums in Iraq hovered just below 20 percent. Today, that percentage has risen to 53 percent: 11 million of the 19 million total urban dwellers. In the past decade, most countries have made progress toward reducing slum dwellers. But Iraq has gone rapidly and dangerously in the opposite direction.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/us_leaves_iraq_much_worse_off_20100823/

 

[Kat]

The world may be better off without Saddam but the average Iraqi's life was better when they had a stable country, however terrible the dictator. Saddam kept the sectarian factions in line.

I'm a dove anyway. I'd rather see the US military involved in humanitarian efforts like helping the flood victims in Pakistan and creating good will than killing people and occupying their countries.

I'd rather see that too, but I am a realist. I know life is tough. It was tough for my dad when he served in WW2. It was tough for my husband when he served.
Life is tough.

IMO you are dead wrong about Saddam.

Saddam was evil. The world is better off now that he's in hell. That doesn't mean the average Iraqi citizen is better off then they were before the war. The country is still a mess.

Yes, it does mean they are better off. No one said ''well off'. Definite better off though.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'd rather see that too, but I am a realist. I know life is tough. It was tough for my dad when he served in WW2. It was tough for my husband when he served.
Life is tough.

IMO you are dead wrong about Saddam.

Saddam was evil. The world is better off now that he's in hell. That doesn't mean the average Iraqi citizen is better off then they were before the war. The country is still a mess.

Yes, it does mean they are better off. No one said ''well off'. Definite better off though.

Read the link I just provided. They are not better off than they were before the war.

 

[DiamondDave]

The world may be better off without Saddam but the average Iraqi's life was better when they had a stable country, however terrible the dictator. Saddam kept the sectarian factions in line.

I'm a dove anyway. I'd rather see the US military involved in humanitarian efforts like helping the flood victims in Pakistan and creating good will than killing people and occupying their countries.

I'd rather see that too, but I am a realist. I know life is tough. It was tough for my dad when he served in WW2. It was tough for my husband when he served.
Life is tough.

IMO you are dead wrong about Saddam.

Saddam was evil. The world is better off now that he's in hell. That doesn't mean the average Iraqi citizen is better off then they were before the war. The country is still a mess.


Iraq has between 25 and 50 percent unemployment, a dysfunctional parliament, rampant disease, an epidemic of mental illness, and sprawling slums. The killing of innocent people has become part of daily life. What a havoc the United States has wreaked in Iraq.

UN-HABITAT, an agency of the United Nations, recently published a 218-page report entitled State of the World’s Cities, 2010-2011. The report is full of statistics on the status of cities around the world and their demographics. It defines slum dwellers as those living in urban centers without one of the following: durable structures to protect them from climate, sufficient living area, sufficient access to water, access to sanitation facilities, and freedom from eviction.

Almost intentionally hidden in these statistics is one shocking fact about urban Iraqi populations. For the past few decades, prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, the percentage of the urban population living in slums in Iraq hovered just below 20 percent. Today, that percentage has risen to 53 percent: 11 million of the 19 million total urban dwellers. In the past decade, most countries have made progress toward reducing slum dwellers. But Iraq has gone rapidly and dangerously in the opposite direction.

U.S. Leaves Iraq Much Worse Off - Truthdig

And your 'proof' is an opinion piece by an activist....

"Foreign Policy in Focus (FPIF) is a “Think Tank Without Walls” connecting the research and action of more than 600 scholars, advocates, and activists seeking to make the United States a more responsible global partner. It is a project of the Institute for Policy Studies."

Foreign Policy In Focus | About FPIF

Try some facts instead of tidbits from those who have similar opinions

 

[Kat]

Saddam was evil. The world is better off now that he's in hell. That doesn't mean the average Iraqi citizen is better off then they were before the war. The country is still a mess.

Yes, it does mean they are better off. No one said ''well off'. Definite better off though.

Read the link I just provided. They are not better off.

Show me something non partisan.