Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year

[copsnrobbers]

Hey, Things always seem to work out well right?

When all the liberals mothers and fathers get sick and are passed over and left to die they'll be be the first to understand it's just a price you have to pay for there chosen Communism.

I hope they get sick real soon. Fuck em.

 

[Listening]

Gee, how weird is it that the life expectancy in the UK is so much better than our country? We are in the high 30s while their ranking is 13th. Weird considering they are just letting their old folks die...

Please stop spreading your cows**t all over the board. Do you need any more examples of how you are nothing but a hack ?

Life expectancy does not suffer from the same measurement problems that distort infant mortality comparisons. Even so, the U.S. ranking of 39th in life expectancy (according to U.N. figures) also is thoroughly misleading. When life expectancy figures are adjusted to account for deaths due to violence, the United States ranks No. 1 among nations in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. U.S. deaths due to violence include all gunshot-related deaths as well as deaths due to automobile accidents or other injuries. Such deaths, obviously, say nothing about the quality of U.S. medical care.

Still doesn't explain such a great disparity as 13th and 39th, but it was a valiant effort. You get a t-ball trophy!

You are kidding ? I hope.

You don't get that if you take out the non-health care related deaths....we rocket past the U.K. in terms of life expectancy ?

 

[PredFan]

"death panels" again Insurance co's already have them

And your evidence of this is a cartoon?

 

[PredFan]

We have one of the best...if you use it right...and you don't even have to be wealthy. You just have to be interested.

Insightful, and true of more things American than just health care!

Using the pre-ACA insurance system in america.

step 1. pay your health insurance premiums, if yuou are allowed to get it.

Step 2. if you need health care contact your insurance company to find out their approved method of getting care.

step 3. Follow all of their contrived instructions, and get approval every step of the way.

step 4. finally get to the end of your obstacle course and get the treatment some accountant at your insurance company decided you need.

step 5. pay your deductable and have the rest of the bill you got approved sent to the insurance company to pay the part they were contracted to.

Step 6. have insurance company refuse payment for their approved treatment and have the place where you got treatment send bill to you.

step 7. Argue with the insurance company who approved your treatment to pay for their share of your treatment.

step 8. get dropped by your insurance company for making a claim.

step 9. Have the place you got medical treatment submit you to a collection agency for not paying your bills and have all your credit ruined.

step 10. pay your medical bills yourself to save your credit and never see anymore from the insurance company that dropped you, or continue with shit cresdit fighting against the insurance company who you have no way of effecting.

step 11. get ulcer for arguing 6 straight months with the insurance company while your credit is shot over the bill they were supposed to pay and never do.

step 12. Die from complications to the stress induced illnesses you got from arguing with the insurance company, and because you could not get anymore insurance, or pay for medical treatment because they ruined your credit.

step 13. have doctors who treated you ravage your estate for the money they deserve that your insurance company was supposed to pay, and now your kids get to be stressed fighting for their inheritance.

This is how you properly use the pre-ACA american insurance system.

Ok, let's tally up your score:

1. Lie, 2. lie, 3. lie, 4. lie, 5. TRUE, you aren't doing very well here.

6. Lie, 7. lie, 8. lie, 9. part true, part lie, 10. lie, 11. bull shit, 12. EXTREME BULL SHIT, 13. bull shit bull shit bull shit.


Conclusion; you sir, are full of partisan shit.

 

[PredFan]

Iatrogenesis is the 4th major killer in the USA already.

And that's with the system we have right now.

So you are willing to let it get worse?

 

[PredFan]

Iatrogenesis is the 4th major killer in the USA already.

And that's with the system we have right now.

And btw, your post is very misleading, the 4th leading cause of death is not the general term "iatrogenesis" it is pharmacologic.

Death caused by prescription drugs. This includes: wrong prescription, mistakes in dispensing prescription drugs, mistakes in following directions, prescription drug abuse, doctor shopping, drug interaction issues, and more.

 

[PredFan]

Gee, how weird is it that the life expectancy in the UK is so much better than our country? We are in the high 30s while their ranking is 13th. Weird considering they are just letting their old folks die...

False. if you are using that WHO study, you need to know that it has been debunked too many times to count.

 

[PredFan]

If the UK health system is allegedly allowing all these people to die off without life saving care, how is it that the UK FAR surpasses the United States in life expectancy? Can the OP or anyone answer that question?

They don't.

That was easy.

 

[PredFan]

Gee, how weird is it that the life expectancy in the UK is so much better than our country? We are in the high 30s while their ranking is 13th. Weird considering they are just letting their old folks die...

Please stop spreading your cows**t all over the board. Do you need any more examples of how you are nothing but a hack ?

Life expectancy does not suffer from the same measurement problems that distort infant mortality comparisons. Even so, the U.S. ranking of 39th in life expectancy (according to U.N. figures) also is thoroughly misleading. When life expectancy figures are adjusted to account for deaths due to violence, the United States ranks No. 1 among nations in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. U.S. deaths due to violence include all gunshot-related deaths as well as deaths due to automobile accidents or other injuries. Such deaths, obviously, say nothing about the quality of U.S. medical care.

Still doesn't explain such a great disparity as 13th and 39th, but it was a valiant effort. You get a t-ball trophy!

Jesus you are dense.

 

[PredFan]

Gee, how weird is it that the life expectancy in the UK is so much better than our country? We are in the high 30s while their ranking is 13th. Weird considering they are just letting their old folks die...

78.4 US life expectancy V 80.2 UK life expectancy is a statistical tie, especially in light of our population, immigration and other differentials. You can never take a raw number and extrapolate a meaning without comparative information. For instance we are ranked as having a rather high number of neo natal deaths for such an advanced country- but of course the fact that we have numerous neo natal facilities attempting to save babies via advanced medical procedures is overlooked. (babies that would have been counted as still births instead of infant deaths)


But I digress. Are you claiming the program and practice in the article are false?

This is exactly correct. Many countries call infant deaths less than about 32 weeks spontaneous abortions and don't count them.

 

[clevergirl]

Gee, how weird is it that the life expectancy in the UK is so much better than our country? We are in the high 30s while their ranking is 13th. Weird considering they are just letting their old folks die...

78.4 US life expectancy V 80.2 UK life expectancy is a statistical tie, especially in light of our population, immigration and other differentials. You can never take a raw number and extrapolate a meaning without comparative information. For instance we are ranked as having a rather high number of neo natal deaths for such an advanced country- but of course the fact that we have numerous neo natal facilities attempting to save babies via advanced medical procedures is overlooked. (babies that would have been counted as still births instead of infant deaths)


But I digress. Are you claiming the program and practice in the article are false?

This is exactly correct. Many countries call infant deaths less than about 32 weeks spontaneous abortions and don't count them.

I have this annoying habit of preferring facts over hyperbole...

 

[Seawytch]

But that Daily Mail article has already been discredited by a medical group with a membership of 4,000 U.K. doctors. The head of public policy at the Christian Medical Fellowship (CMF), Dr. Peter Saunders, noted in a blog post that while it "is certainly true that 130,000 British patients per year are dying whilst on the LCP," it "does not therefore follow from this that the LCP is the cause of their deaths." As Saunders explains, only patients who are "imminently dying" can be placed on the pathway in the first place:

The Liverpool Care Pathway for the dying patient (LCP) is a treatment pathway used in the final days and hours of life which aims to help doctors and nurses provide effective end of life care.

It was initially developed between the Royal Liverpool Hospital and the City's Marie Curie Hospice in the later 1990s and recommended to hospitals by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in 2004.

[...]

Before a patient can be placed on the pathway the multi professional team caring for them have to agree that all reversible causes for their condition have been considered and that they are in fact imminently dying.

[...]

It is certainly true that 130,000 British patients per year are dying whilst on the LCP. But it does not therefore follow from this that the LCP is the cause of their deaths.[\quote]

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/06/30/fox-hypes-daily-mail-article-to-help-palin-prom/186622

 

[tinydancer]

But that Daily Mail article has already been discredited by a medical group with a membership of 4,000 U.K. doctors. The head of public policy at the Christian Medical Fellowship (CMF), Dr. Peter Saunders, noted in a blog post that while it "is certainly true that 130,000 British patients per year are dying whilst on the LCP," it "does not therefore follow from this that the LCP is the cause of their deaths." As Saunders explains, only patients who are "imminently dying" can be placed on the pathway in the first place:

The Liverpool Care Pathway for the dying patient (LCP) is a treatment pathway used in the final days and hours of life which aims to help doctors and nurses provide effective end of life care.

It was initially developed between the Royal Liverpool Hospital and the City's Marie Curie Hospice in the later 1990s and recommended to hospitals by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in 2004.

[...]

Before a patient can be placed on the pathway the multi professional team caring for them have to agree that all reversible causes for their condition have been considered and that they are in fact imminently dying.

[...]

It is certainly true that 130,000 British patients per year are dying whilst on the LCP. But it does not therefore follow from this that the LCP is the cause of their deaths.[\quote]

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/06/30/fox-hypes-daily-mail-article-to-help-palin-prom/186622

Daily Mail cannot be discredited on this article when they are only reporting the Professor Pullicino's speech at the Royal Society of Medicine. His credentials are impeccable.

I don't know how you can make that leap. They are just reporting what the Professor was speaking about. And there is no proof being offered by Dr. Saunders to challenge these other medical experts opinion that they've offered. Just his own opinion.

The Professor is"a consultant neurologist for East Kent Hospitals and Professor of Clinical Neurosciences at the University of Kent".

We're not talking chopped liver here. It's all good and well that Dr. Saunders feels differently. But Professor Pullicino is taking a strong stance on this and he is joined by others.

And they are not criticizing LCP but they are giving warning signs that this is being abused as "back door euthanasia".

These men are not writing a blog like Prison Planet. These men aren't conspiracy nuts for heaven's sake. They are highly regarded.

Medical criticisms of the Liverpool Care Pathway were voiced nearly three years ago.

Experts including Peter Millard, emeritus professor of geriatrics at the University of London, and Dr Peter Hargreaves, palliative care consultant at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, Surrey, warned of ‘backdoor euthanasia’ and the risk that economic factors were being brought into the treatment of vulnerable patients.

Read more: Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year | Mail Online

 

[Listening]

I noticed SeaBxxxxx gave up the attack on our mortality rate when it was rammed back up her ass.

 

[Seawytch]

I noticed SeaBxxxxx gave up the attack on our mortality rate when it was rammed back up her ass.

Our mortality rate and theirs is now irrelevant since the OP is a lie. The UK still gets better results than our Health Care.

 

[Listening]

I noticed SeaBxxxxx gave up the attack on our mortality rate when it was rammed back up her ass.

Our mortality rate and theirs is now irrelevant since the OP is a lie. The UK still gets better results than our Health Care.

And you can support that bit of crap ?

 

[konradv]

The delusion of the left in the names of "equality"

Does anyone really believe that politicians and their friends/family are going to be "equal" to the people
and get the same treatment

One only needs to look at the Canadian PM who came to the US for medical services or that fact
Papa Obama denies school voucher to poor black kids to go to the same private school as his children, to see that will never happen

Oh we Conservatives had a freaking blast mocking Premier Danny Williams for going stateside for surgery.

So what? People often go out of their area to find a specialist. The important question is, who paid for it?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Gee, how weird is it that the life expectancy in the UK is so much better than our country? We are in the high 30s while their ranking is 13th. Weird considering they are just letting their old folks die...

They dont have black foks mowing down each other in a Chicago or Detroit.

 

[tinydancer]

I noticed SeaBxxxxx gave up the attack on our mortality rate when it was rammed back up her ass.

Our mortality rate and theirs is now irrelevant since the OP is a lie. The UK still gets better results than our Health Care.

What makes the OP a lie? The Professor has a genuine concern along with many others that this program is being abused.

So what makes it a lie Seawytch? Because you don't like the distinguished Professors opinion?

If you want to start a thread on the wonders of the NHS I'd be more than happy to begin a thread with the absolute horror stories I have accumulated about the NHS.

Did you miss the one I put up earlier where the staff at a hospital forgot to give a young man his medication and then refused to give him anything to drink and he died of dehydration?

The poor young patient even called the police to tell them he was dying and the wonderous staff in their wisdom turned the police away, and still refused to tend to the patient and he died.

He was in such a horrid state the coroner called for an inquest. Essentially the staff killed the young man.

I have so many others. I'd be more than happy to share them with you.

 

[tinydancer]

The delusion of the left in the names of "equality"

Does anyone really believe that politicians and their friends/family are going to be "equal" to the people
and get the same treatment

One only needs to look at the Canadian PM who came to the US for medical services or that fact
Papa Obama denies school voucher to poor black kids to go to the same private school as his children, to see that will never happen

Oh we Conservatives had a freaking blast mocking Premier Danny Williams for going stateside for surgery.

So what? People often go out of their area to find a specialist. The important question is, who paid for it?

Oh he was a moving target for us. Premier Danny Williams was a huge loudmouth liberal prick.

There was a huge uproar over this why? Because he could have had the operation up here in Canada. Williams was an asshole who deserved all the flack he got over this.