To hate Jews is to hate God.

[Billo_Really]

You continue to ignore that Jesus hated the Jews, as shown by how he spoke to them. You continue to ignore that Jesus never commanded us to love everyone. You continue to ignore that Jesus viewed the Old Testament as Holy scripture, and that does teach God's people to hate people who do evil.

And, you choose to read a a translation where the translators put in lies. And, you claim the Old Testament contains a "bunch of crap".

The sin is part of the sinner. You can't hate one without hating the other. Conversely, if you don't hate the sinner, then you don't hate the sin.

70 AD shows what happens to people who hate God, because God hates them back. To you, 70 AD is nothing but the result of violent resistance to occupation. To Jesus, it was God's vengeance against the Jews. Luke 21:22.

God does not hate. Does not teach hate. HE has nothing to do with hate. And the same was for Jesus as well. Everything that is written in the entire Bible, has one and only one message; and that message, is only one word..................LOVE!

If you think Jesus hated the jews, then what was the last thing HE said before HE died?

Your logic is pretty flawed. In order to "hate" a sinner, you must first judge him to be a sinner. And "judgement" is not for us to do, that's God's bellywork.

 

[GreatestIam]

You continue to ignore that Jesus hated the Jews, as shown by how he spoke to them. You continue to ignore that Jesus never commanded us to love everyone. You continue to ignore that Jesus viewed the Old Testament as Holy scripture, and that does teach God's people to hate people who do evil.

And, you choose to read a a translation where the translators put in lies. And, you claim the Old Testament contains a "bunch of crap".

The sin is part of the sinner. You can't hate one without hating the other. Conversely, if you don't hate the sinner, then you don't hate the sin.

70 AD shows what happens to people who hate God, because God hates them back. To you, 70 AD is nothing but the result of violent resistance to occupation. To Jesus, it was God's vengeance against the Jews. Luke 21:22.

God does not hate. Does not teach hate. HE has nothing to do with hate. And the same was for Jesus as well. Everything that is written in the entire Bible, has one and only one message; and that message, is only one word..................LOVE!

If you think Jesus hated the jews, then what was the last thing HE said before HE died?

Your logic is pretty flawed. In order to "hate" a sinner, you must first judge him to be a sinner. And "judgement" is not for us to do, that's God's bellywork.

Exactly.
And that is how his greatest hate is shown as the vast majority are sentenced to purposeless torture in hell.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc]'Hell' as an invention of the church - YouTube[/ame]

Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2012, not 112.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rKXEY&feature=related]Satan and God: who is the good guy? - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT2yY&feature=related]God is not Good - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU&feature=related]Hell: an excessive punishment - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Jesus tells noone to hate, He is who I follow.

You continue to ignore that Jesus hated the Jews, as shown by how he spoke to them. You continue to ignore that Jesus never commanded us to love everyone. You continue to ignore that Jesus viewed the Old Testament as Holy scripture, and that does teach God's people to hate people who do evil.

And, you choose to read a a translation where the translators put in lies. And, you claim the Old Testament contains a "bunch of crap".

The sin is part of the sinner. You can't hate one without hating the other. Conversely, if you don't hate the sinner, then you don't hate the sin.

70 AD, that shows us what happens when a people choose hate over love,
violent resistance to Occupation led to a people's destruction and exile.

70 AD shows what happens to people who hate God, because God hates them back. To you, 70 AD is nothing but the result of violent resistance to occupation. To Jesus, it was God's vengeance against the Jews. Luke 21:22.

Ariux,

Jesus never commanded us to love everyone, because it would not be possible for us to love every person. We cannot love people we do not know, the reality is we cannot love even one person the way Jesus calls us to do. Our obligations to love are to love God and others we come in contact with, in some fashion. Jesus does not command us to hate Jews, or anyone else. His final words on the cross were "Forgive them for they know not what they do." Words of criticism made to persons engaging in evil and/or bad acts are not hate. I find myself thinking about harsh words I sometimes say to family members, my husband, my children. I do not say those words because I hate them.

Jesus never pulled up something written in The Old Testament that ordered hate or killing, and stated, I command you to go out and do this. For example, The Old Testament sanctions ethnic cleansing. Jesus never referenced the ethnic cleansing that appears to have been sanctioned by God therein and said I approve, go do it again. He said something altogether different about ethnic cleansing and the land, He said Blessed are the meek, for the meek shall inherit the land, in The Beatitudes.

Jesus, while never pulling up Old Testament verses that commanded hate or violence or killing and confirming them, He did directly address some such verses and repudiate them. Thus, He specicifically addresses The Old Testament verses, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," (Exodus 21:24), and He repudiates it, He says, "You have heard that it was said, Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person! If someone strikes you on the the right cheek, turn to him the other also..." Matthew 5:38-42. As I am reading this, I find myself pondering the words, you have heard that it was said. It is almost as if He is pointing out some directive of God the people had gotten wrong in The Old Testament, that they had misinterpreted. I think that is a good way to look at all The Old Testament verses that seem to sanction hate or violence or killing, the people simply were mistaken about God's directive to them. And what I feel is called for is to test anything written in The Old Testament against Jesus directives to Christians, and reject anything there inconsistent with Jesus teachings. Being a Christian is following the teachings of Jesus Christ, not Moses or Joshua or anyone else in The Old Testament.

The Old Testament is the old covenant with mankind, the new has replaced the old. So, why should I follow the old? To do so would be to reject Jesus and His New Covenant with mankind. I am not going to be misled and turned away from Jesus by trying to follow commands that do not apply to me or the new covenant. It is not that it has no value, to study, to read, but I must always think of it primarily as historical, all that came before Jesus, and remember Jesus is the focal point of my beliefs and Christianity.

Hating sin and loving the sinner, it is a difficult undertaking, but it is not impossible. I think Jesus did exactly that, when he sacrificed His life on that cross for the world, for every person, even many who were sinners and evil. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son..."

Christians were never promised life would be easy and free of pain and struggles, it is in the difficult struggles, to love and not hate, that we become closer to Christ and more like Christ.

Jesus says, I came to save, and not to judge. Your interpretation of events of 70 AD is inconsistent with Jesus words about why He came into the world. Our choices, to accept or reject Jesus, have consequences. I think that is very much demonstrated by what happened in 70 AD. There are consequences to sin, I see that as a different thing then God's Judgment.

Sherri

 

[amrchaos]

How did we go from "Anti-sematism" to "Questioning Jesus"?

Why can't a thread stay on topic? Hey--can some one come up with a theory about how long it takes a thread to go off topic?

Now that could be a thread initself!!

 

[Youwerecreated]

How did we go from "Anti-sematism" to "Questioning Jesus"?

Why can't a thread stay on topic? Hey--can some one come up with a theory about how long it takes a thread to go off topic?

Now that could be a thread initself!!

No thread stays on topic because it becomes an issue of who is right and who is wrong.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

You continue to ignore that Jesus hated the Jews, as shown by how he spoke to them. You continue to ignore that Jesus never commanded us to love everyone. You continue to ignore that Jesus viewed the Old Testament as Holy scripture, and that does teach God's people to hate people who do evil.

And, you choose to read a a translation where the translators put in lies. And, you claim the Old Testament contains a "bunch of crap".

The sin is part of the sinner. You can't hate one without hating the other. Conversely, if you don't hate the sinner, then you don't hate the sin.

70 AD shows what happens to people who hate God, because God hates them back. To you, 70 AD is nothing but the result of violent resistance to occupation. To Jesus, it was God's vengeance against the Jews. Luke 21:22.

God does not hate. Does not teach hate. HE has nothing to do with hate. And the same was for Jesus as well. Everything that is written in the entire Bible, has one and only one message; and that message, is only one word..................LOVE!

If you think Jesus hated the jews, then what was the last thing HE said before HE died?

Your logic is pretty flawed. In order to "hate" a sinner, you must first judge him to be a sinner. And "judgement" is not for us to do, that's God's bellywork.

Exactly.
And that is how his greatest hate is shown as the vast majority are sentenced to purposeless torture in hell.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc]'Hell' as an invention of the church - YouTube[/ame]

Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2012, not 112.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rKXEY&feature=related]Satan and God: who is the good guy? - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT2yY&feature=related]God is not Good - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU&feature=related]Hell: an excessive punishment - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm,

Are you familiar with the concept of "universal salvation?" I know a Christian who believes in it today, he believes God will reconcile every man with Himself. In his mind, there will be no people in hell suffering eternal damnation and hellfire. I want to believe in it, too, and hope he is right about his beliefs.

Universal Salvation: The Ultimate

'Do you realize, that what you believe tells God what sort of person you are? Have you ever stopped to consider exactly what you do believe? Have you ever stopped and considered why you believe what you believe?

Paul said at 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things" (King James Version). The Greek word for "prove" there is dokimazete (dokimazete) from dokimazw (dokimazo) and it means to prove, to test. But what you have not been told is that it also means to approve, to approve after trial, to judge worthy. God does not want you just to prove all things, He also wants you to approve of all things as well. And that is different, because now the responsibility is upon you not just to prove what you believe, but also to approve of what you believe.

For instance, if you are in a church that teaches Hell fire and eternal suffering, (watch this very carefully) in your heart, you have to approve of that.

If you belong to a church that teaches eternal death for some, (again, watch this very carefully) in your heart, you have to approve of that. What sort of a heart could approve of Hell fire and eternal suffering?

What sort of a heart could approve of eternal death for some? The doctrine of Universal Salvation teaches that all will have eternal life, including Satan and the demons. And that one day, all will have the same nature as God. What sort of a heart could not approve of Universal Salvation, eternal life for all?"

UniversalSalvation.org

UniversalSalvation.org

Sherri

 

[amrchaos]

How did we go from "Anti-sematism" to "Questioning Jesus"?

Why can't a thread stay on topic? Hey--can some one come up with a theory about how long it takes a thread to go off topic?

Now that could be a thread initself!!

No thread stays on topic because it becomes an issue of who is right and who is wrong.

What if we are all wrong?

Then the thread will never end! Constant arguing back and dorth with statements from so-called experts to back us and no one ever giving head way to the others opinions.

Kind of like "I can see what you said is wrong, but I am blind to what is wrong with what I am saying". Is such a thread possible? Would it even be fun to post to??

We need a pure philosophy board to test it out on!!

 

[Ariux]

Jesus never commanded us to love everyone, because it would not be possible for us to love every person. We cannot love people we do not know, the reality is we cannot love even one person the way Jesus calls us to do. Our obligations to love are to love God and others we come in contact with, in some fashion. Jesus does not command us to hate Jews, or anyone else. His final words on the cross were "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

No reasonable person would take "love all men" to mean loving people we don't know in a way beyond what's possible to love a person you don't know. Jesus tells his followers that they will be hated by "all men". How is that possible? There are people who didn't know his followers. And, it would require his followers to hate themselves.

Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan doesn't even imply loving everyone we come in contact with. Jesus' comment on the cross about forgiving them for they know now what they do concerns the Romans, not the Jews. No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it's still a lie.

You continue to ignore that Jesus didn't show love to everyone and that the Old Testament teaches that certain people should be hated.

Jesus never pulled up something written in The Old Testament that ordered hate or killing, and stated, I command you to go out and do this. For example, The Old Testament sanctions ethnic cleansing. Jesus never referenced the ethnic cleansing that appears to have been sanctioned by God therein and said I approve, go do it again.

Luke 21 is about Jesus advocating ethnic cleansing, ethnic cleaning against the Jews.

Jesus, while never pulling up Old Testament verses that commanded hate or violence or killing and confirming them, He did directly address some such verses and repudiate them. Thus, He specicifically addresses The Old Testament verses, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," (Exodus 21:24), and He repudiates it, He says, "You have heard that it was said, Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person! If someone strikes you on the the right cheek, turn to him the other also..." Matthew 5:38-42.

In the Matthew 5 sermon, Jesus explicitly upholds ALL the law, which includes an eye-for-an-eye. The message of the sermon is to keep the law, to be more righteous than the Pharisees, and to be perfect. This is something people in the Church of Satan reject. They call it legalism and being unloving. Their churches ignore things like Jesus saying in this sermon that divorce and remarriage are sins. They're too busy "not judging", while their churches actually, even if unintentionally, promote divorce.

While Jesus calls divorce and remarriage sins, he doesn't say hating your enemies is a sin. He doesn't say refusing to turn the other cheek is a sin. What he does say is hyperbole. Most people, including the faux-love Church of Satan, actually do lack love. Jesus is not disagreeing with the Old Testament, not in the same breath as he quotes it, "you have heard..." He's calling on justice to be tempered with mercy, not for justice to be flushed down the toilet.

Hating sin and loving the sinner, it is a difficult undertaking, but it is not impossible. I think Jesus did exactly that, when he sacrificed His life on that cross for the world, for every person, even many who were sinners and evil.

The Church of Satan "loves the sinner" out of weakness and fear. They don't love just any sinner. They just love Politically Correct sinners. These so-called Christians fear being judged by these sinners. But, it's God they would fear, if they weren't fools.

God hates people who do evil things, AKA the sinner. The Bible flat out says so. Jesus didn't die for every person. He died just for those God predestined to be his children.

Jesus says, I came to save, and not to judge. Your interpretation of events of 70 AD is inconsistent with Jesus words about why He came into the world.

Jesus' ministry wasn't to judge. But, Jesus is the judge of the living and the dead. My interpretation of 70 AD is the most natural and straightforward interpretation of Jesus' comments. They only point disputed is of Jesus is talking about just the Jews or the whole world.