Thoughts on much more stringent enforcement of the policy that Israel/Palestine threads ONLY be posted in the I/P forum?

[MinTrut]

This issue is historically so divisive that most forums have a rule that NO posts regarding this conflict can be posted anywhere but a sub-forum dedicated to the issue.

Similar rules pertain to abortion on most sites, as people appear incapable of interacting in a civilized manner on that issue as well.

It's not an exaggeration to say that this forum is being torn apart by discussions of this issue; as one longtime poster remarked, the hostility is "unprecedented."

Would MUCH more stringent enforcement make a difference, or is the massive damage done, and only more damage to come?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

It's breaking news and current events.
I see what you're doing and I think most of us do too

 

[okfine]

This issue is historically so divisive that most forums have a rule that NO posts regarding this conflict can be posted anywhere but a sub-forum dedicated to the issue.

Similar rules pertain to abortion on most sites, as people appear incapable of interacting in a civilized manner on that issue as well.

It's not an exaggeration to say that this forum is being torn apart by discussions of this issue; as one longtime poster remarked, the hostility is "unprecedented."

Would MUCH more stringent enforcement make a difference, or is the massive damage done, and only more damage to come?

I think the mods have let all do their thing, but it has been the same word flinging for weeks and now it's time to control it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Israel haters should be the last people to want that to happen.

Otherwise no one would be reading their worn-out arguments against the fact of Israel's existence and recognition.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Israel haters should be the last people to want that to happen.

Otherwise no one would be reading their worn-out arguments against the fact of Israel's existence and recognition.

They're being exposed and crushed. They want these CURRENT EVENTS discussions pushed out of sight

 

[okfine]

Israel haters should be the last people to want that to happen.

Otherwise no one would be reading their worn-out arguments against the fact of Israel's existence and recognition.

How many times should one repeat themselves? I think who is who and what is what has been covered.

 

[Seymour Flops]

They're being exposed and crushed. They want these CURRENT EVENTS discussions pushed out of sight

Yes, I think they would have loved to have these discussions happen after their hoped for reelection of Diaper Joe. The more senile he is, the more controllable by the far leftists who own him.

Right now, it is exposing a rift in the Democratic Party at a time when they cannot put up a candidate to beat a guy under 4 indictments and 91 criminal counts.

 

[MinTrut]

It's breaking news and current events.
I see what you're doing and I think most of us do too

Calling for ceasefires, and asking if it would be wise to diminish any additional damage may be upsetting to some.

Some just want to see the world burn.

I think most who are wise can see this.

 

[gipper]

This issue is historically so divisive that most forums have a rule that NO posts regarding this conflict can be posted anywhere but a sub-forum dedicated to the issue.

Similar rules pertain to abortion on most sites, as people appear incapable of interacting in a civilized manner on that issue as well.

It's not an exaggeration to say that this forum is being torn apart by discussions of this issue; as one longtime poster remarked, the hostility is "unprecedented."

Would MUCH more stringent enforcement make a difference, or is the massive damage done, and only more damage to come?

It does get a bit nasty around here, particularly when the subject is war. However, war has always been divisive. Anyone who opposes all war as I’ve done, always gets attacked and labeled a traitor. This occurs in every war going back to well before we’ve been born.

What I don’t understand is after all the war lies since 1861 up to today, why any American would support yet another war boggles the mind. Apparently the ruling class can lie us into wars over and over. We as nation never learn.

 

[MinTrut]

At what point should the allies have called a ceasefire when they were bombing Germany at (nearly) the end of WWII?

This isn't the topic.

The topic:

Whether it makes sense to allow the further destruction of the forum by permitting discussion of THE most divisive issue on the planet on sub-forums not designated for such discussion.

Does it make sense to have dozens of new threads posted every day - many of which are duplicates created by people who couldn't be bothered to see if the topic was already being discussed - on multiple forums instead of the one designated for such discussion?

Does it make sense for half of the forum to have the other half of the forum on ignore as a result?

THAT is the topic.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Meh. I dunno. At least you know where priorities lie.

And judging by the trend with regard to topical content as of late, it sure ain't America.

Seems like America's mounting list of woes and relevant goings-on are suddenly back page news.

This is truly valuable information to have from an observer's perspective.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Thread Cleaned
Those of you that were attempting to derail the thread won't be able to reply to it.

 

[MinTrut]

Thread Cleaned
Those of you that were attempting to derail the thread won't be able to reply to it.

I missed all the action!

I started the thread here in the Feedback Forum, it was derailed into yet ANOTHER thread of the kind I'm concerned about, & thus briefly moved to CE, and now it's back here where I'd originally intended it to be, minus several posts that were, in fact, off topic, including one made by me this morning.

First and foremost, I want to be clear in saying I think the moderation here is superbly even-handed.

I don't find myself wondering "Why did they do that?," but rather easily able to follow the logic, including this thread's prodigal journey.

But my originally stated concern remains, though it's part of a larger landscape in which forums in general are experiencing diminishing participation.

The reasons for this have been discussed online for years, and include the impact of more user-centric later models of a more superficial nature, and with limited capacity to readily explore more complex issues.

If discussion forums can ideally be a banquet hall of ideas, newer sites are often more of a McDonald's-like experience - simple, fast, and ultimately unfulfilling.

But the demographics are a killer.

Most forums of this type simply have no Gen Y or Z participation, and only a few Xers.

And when your core participants are aging, that's a one-way ticket to Scooby's Ghost Town.

So I look at this current crisis here as one occurring in the context of inevitable diminution, and thus even more serious than if it were happening in a more thriving environment where new posters and their new ways were destined to solve such problems simply by pushing old ones aside and presenting new ones.

The environment here now is far too static AND far too toxic - massively toxic in fact.

And it's far too static/toxic to maintain itself.

Two thirds of the forum is now accusing the other third of being psychopathic monsters, and both sides are ABSOLUTELY certain that they are on the proper side of morality and history.

My position on this issue is well documented on the forum, and requires no reiteration here; this was not the purpose of posting this thread in the first place.

But we've gone from calling each other names but (barely) tolerating one another to a state where far too many people are simply ignoring one another, either via scroll or the ignore feature.

Even the limited and narrow-minded grunting and poo-flinging which could be discouraging in the best of times have given way to endlessly repeated toxic diatribes in which thoughtful dissent is simply impossible.

And worse, those in the minority - liberals and independents, and even a handful of leftists - are simply disappearing.

I've seen the results of this minority flight on other forums, and it's ugly.

Whether such forums become almost exclusively liberal or almost exclusively conservative (as this forum is on the path to becoming), what you see is pure echo chambers which invite no one in the minority to participate.

Why would a cat knowingly walk into a pack of dogs, or vice versa?

In an environmental context, it's like a toxic algae bloom in which all the animal life - the fish - die as the plants consume all of the oxygen.

Whoever one sees as the villain in the I/P conflict, the battle over this issue is consuming all of the oxygen on this forum, and no younger fish are dropping in to participate, eat the algae, and offset the crisis.

But there IS a solution, and one used by nearly ALL political forums.

It was even announced here a few weeks ago!

Contain the toxic spread as most other forums do, and place I/P threads in the sub-forum created for this purpose, and make it clear that this is where ALL such topics must be discussed - no exceptions.

If this isn't done?

The forum will surely continue on - for years if not a decade or more.

But it will be yet another place of no diversity; less of a pond choked by algae than a dead sea of ideas.

So a choice needs to be made between creating a zombie kiddie pool, or to maintain a forum which contains the toxins in another area, and permits much slower evaporation to continue as the ebbing follows its natural course.

Thanks for reading, and for maintaining a great forum far longer than most have even been capable of doing.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what this thread is about?

 

[MinTrut]

Am I the only one that doesn't understand what this thread is about?

The forum announced - in this very sub-forum I believe - that the existing policy to contain inevitably toxic Israel/Palestine discussions to the sub-forum dedicated to this issue would be enforced more stringently following the early October actions by HAMAS.

Most forums have similar policies, as this issue can destroy entire forums if the toxicity spreads beyond an I/P sub-forum.

But this policy is not being enforced, and dozens of posters have placed dozens of posters in the opposing camp on ignore.

Few new posters are arriving to make up for the vastly diminished traffic - thousands of fewer clicks/likes/replies - caused by the hyper-toxic atmosphere in the larger forum caused by this non-enforcement.

The forum is now divided into two camps largely ignoring one another, and this is a permanent state.

This diminution of traffic is hastening the inevitable demise of the forum.

Please let me know if you have any further questions; re/reading the thread may also help.

 

[Natural Citizen]

All Israel/Palestine related threads should be posted in the Israel/Palestine sub-forum.

Now. You could report them if those Israel/Palestine related threads are started in sub forums like Breaking News. More recently this is being done seemingly for the express intent of ignoring the rule about using the proper sub-forums and instead using the Breaking News section to sort of astroturf.

I'm not big on using the report button but I've tested this theory just to satisfy my own curiosity with how those reports are actually addressed maude per maude.

Depending on the particular maude performing a maude action, they'll tend to first look for a reason to just close it and leave it where it shouldn't be rather than move it where it should be.

And, so, ultimately the thread stays where the OP incorrectly/purposefully put it and serves as 1 - a glorified billboard and 2 - a glorified billboard where it shouldn't be.

To that extent, the friendly maude and the poster are kind of functioning in synergy there in a not so clever sort of way to keep the thread in Breaking News where it doesn't belong and as a bonus the thread serves as a sort of permanent billboard or ''sticky'' so to speak.

I think that's likely why we see so much dialogue among some around here with regard to who they can ''rely on'' or ''trust'' or to be ''on theor side'' as a maude and who they can't.

They know what they're doing.

But, as they say, it do take a village.

I mean, it's clever skulduggery. But it's not so clever if you really pay attention to how things happen and have a good understanding of human nature itself.

Again, though, it sems to depend on what maude is performing the maude action and their own worldviews regarding a given matter whether it get closed and serves as a permanently placed billboard or gets moved where it belongs.

 

[Ropey]

Aye is seemingly more concerned with keeping a lid on the place than reaching fairness.

There’s more whiners than winners here.

They can be seen portraying their desire to hold attention as long as they can.

 

[buttercup]

Again, though, it sems to depend on what maude is performing the maude action and their own worldviews regarding a given matter whether it get closed and serves as a permanently placed billboard or gets moved where it belongs.

There are a couple maudes who I think don't let their politics affect their actions. I respect them. But (and I really hate to say this) you are right, there are others who have made it very clear through their actions that their politics/worldview affects their mauding.

Sad, but whatever. This is a free board, and people are fallible.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

There are a couple maudes who I think don't let their politics affect their actions. I respect them. But (and I really hate to say this) you are right, there are others who have made it very clear through their actions that their politics/worldview affects their mauding.

Sad, but whatever. This is a free board, and people are fallible.

Everyone knows who they are

 

[Natural Citizen]

There are a couple maudes who I think don't let their politics affect their actions. I respect them. But (and I really hate to say this) you are right, there are others who have made it very clear through their actions that their politics/worldview affects their mauding.

Sad, but whatever. This is a free board, and people are fallible.

Ultimately I don't care other than to Dave about specific, observable shenanigans.

I like to Dave about shit sometimes.

Now these specific shenanigans that I mentioned could be knowing or unknowing on the part of a maude. And dependent upon the level of fucks given regarding the nature of a given rule violation.

But posters are clever. There's some weasels on here, for sure, and always trying to ''win'' something. They know what they're doing and will tend to take advantage of every little shortcut they can get.

Which is humorous to me. Because what, if anything, is really being accomplished here? It's largely just a bunch of white noise.

Heck. Every day I log on here I become less and less interested in scrolling through what is becoming more and more just a steady stream of ad-hom between usership.

The vette forum has a pretty good Politics/Religion and off-topic section. It's hidden from the general public, but that's the beauty of it. You don't get everybody elses rejects dragging the level of dialogue down and basically turning the place into a cess pool. I'd just as soon hang out on there.