This place is a joke - Merged with AIRING OUT GRIEVANCES

[jillian]

The two that are getting the most flack are the two that actually moderate.. Is it possible familiarity breeds contempt?

Or maybe when some people get a little power, they can overuse it a little?

 

[Shattered]

Or maybe when some people get a little power, they can overuse it a little?

If they wanted to overuse it, trust me..they could. What's to stop them from locking your account just for kicks, all the while saying "I don't know why you can't log in." What's to stop them from banning you for your first "offense"? What's to stop them from following you around watching every debate you're in, and picking it completely apart, while nailing you for "harrassing" other users?

I already admitted that I thought some threads were locked needlessly, and for little reason. But for the most part, you have to admit this board is run pretty fairly..

How would you feel if it were your "job" (unpaid, mind you) to babysit the board, and then when you DO ban someone, have it more often than not overturned by the owner? So, not only are they getting flack from you guys, but they're sometimes questioned behind the scenes for doing what they were put in a position to do in the first place.

Until you've actually done it, you have nothing to base any of your statements on, other than biased opinion.

 

[GotZoom]

I have said many times that unless someone does something totally outrageous (like what AA said to Jillian), I think no one should be banned.

But it is not my board; not my rules. Jimmy makes the rules and the people who have been appointed as mods/admins/etc, enforce the rules.

Don't like it; find another board.

Honestly...I think the people who do the most bitching about the way the board is run just like to whine and complain.

It shows up many times in their posts.

 

[jillian]

I have said many times that unless someone does something totally outrageous (like what AA said to Jillian), I think no one should be banned.

But it is not my board; not my rules. Jimmy makes the rules and the people who have been appointed as mods/admins/etc, enforce the rules.

Don't like it; find another board.

Honestly...I think the people who do the most bitching about the way the board is run just like to whine and complain.

It shows up many times in their posts.

Actually, Jim made it pretty clear he's largely a free speech kinda guy...for which I have the utmost respect. If there are some issues, then it's appropriate to air them, IMO...not because one isn't happy here, but because if no one says anything, how would Jim know there are ANY issues which perhaps need to be cleared up?

BTW, the only whining I've seen is from people who don't like that Grump spoke his piece.

 

[jillian]

If they wanted to overuse it, trust me..they could. What's to stop them from locking your account just for kicks, all the while saying "I don't know why you can't log in." What's to stop them from banning you for your first "offense"? What's to stop them from following you around watching every debate you're in, and picking it completely apart, while nailing you for "harrassing" other users?

I already admitted that I thought some threads were locked needlessly, and for little reason. But for the most part, you have to admit this board is run pretty fairly..

How would you feel if it were your "job" (unpaid, mind you) to babysit the board, and then when you DO ban someone, have it more often than not overturned by the owner? So, not only are they getting flack from you guys, but they're sometimes questioned behind the scenes for doing what they were put in a position to do in the first place.

Until you've actually done it, you have nothing to base any of your statements on, other than biased opinion.

Actually, I was a mod on a board way bigger than this. So I know exactly how thankless it can be. And when any of the mods got heavy-handed, they were put in check by the board aministrators. In one instance, a mod (not me) was actually banned because he got into a huge pissing match with another poster and then with the board admin himself.

So there ya go. I'd say I know from whence I speak

*Edit* Oh...and just for the record. The person who was quickest to call me on it when any of the mods, including myself, got a bit too quick to act, was Grump...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Also notice guys that jim made it clear that mods are allowed to be human and simply may not like you and ban you for that, so kissing mod ass will never be a "bad" idea, per se.

 

[Shattered]

Actually, I was a mod on a board way bigger than this. So I know exactly how thankless it can be. And when any of the mods got heavy-handed, they were put in check by the board aministrators. In one instance, a mod (not me) was actually banned because he got into a huge pissing match with another poster and then with the board admin himself.

So there ya go. I'd say I know from whence I speak

The board I was a Mod, and an Admin on is no longer in operation because of the way it was run, and the fact that the owner just gave up and let the domain name run its course, because his user base was dropping daily (I left long before this happened, not because of it dying, but *because* the board was run the way some of you seem to want this one to run - it just doesn't work).

So..what type of board were you a Mod on? I still say you don't know *too* much..And...if it was still a political board, and "larger than this", why are you not a Mod? Why did you leave?

 

[dilloduck]

Also notice guys that jim made it clear that mods are allowed to be human and simply may not like you and ban you for that, so kissing mod ass will never be a "bad" idea, per se.

You kissing Darins ass ? Thanks a whole lot for that visual !!

 

[Mr. P]

Also notice guys that jim made it clear that mods are allowed to be human and simply may not like you and ban you for that, so kissing mod ass will never be a "bad" idea, per se.

Yeah, BUTT! He was on drugs when he said that. But, if that's how ya gotta act with a Mod.....I be gone.

*Does seem to be going that way*

 

[jillian]

The board I was a Mod, and an Admin on is no longer in operation because of the way it was run, and the fact that the owner just gave up and let the domain name run its course, because his user base was dropping daily (I left long before this happened, not because of it dying, but *because* the board was run the way some of you seem to want this one to run - it just doesn't work).

So..what type of board were you a Mod on? I still say you don't know *too* much..And...if it was still a political board, and "larger than this", why are you not a Mod? Why did you leave?

The board was a fairly balanced community left leaning/right leaning, though probably a little bit more to the left. Then came the election and the site was mentioned in Drudge Report. After that, the Drudge Sludge, for lack of a better word for these people, invaded the site and destroyed discussion. And, yes, speech was so free that, ultimately, no one could have a conversation b/c of all the intentional abuse by the sludge, so the admins of the site shut it down. Also, the worst offenders thought it amusing to spam the board and, on being banned, changed their ip address/es and started all over again. I remember one night deleting about 150 threads.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The board was a fairly balanced community left leaning/right leaning, though probably a little bit more to the left. Then came the election and the site was mentioned in Drudge Report. After that, the Drudge Sludge, for lack of a better word for these people, invaded the site and destroyed discussion. And, yes, speech was so free that, ultimately, no one could have a conversation b/c of all the intentional abuse by the sludge, so the admins of the site shut it down. Also, the worst offenders thought it amusing to spam the board and, on being banned, changed their ip address/es and started all over again. I remember one night deleting about 150 threads.

G-lian. Do you consider DemocraticUnderground to be tolerant of free and open debate?

 

[Mr. P]

The board I was a Mod, and an Admin on is no longer in operation because of the way it was run, and the fact that the owner just gave up and let the domain name run its course, because his user base was dropping daily (I left long before this happened, not because of it dying, but *because* the board was run the way some of you seem to want this one to run - it just doesn't work).

So..what type of board were you a Mod on? I still say you don't know *too* much..And...if it was still a political board, and "larger than this", why are you not a Mod? Why did you leave?

Just wondering how is that? I haven't picked-up on anyone saying "this is how it should be"..Seen many opinions about stuff..nothing else..

 

[jimnyc]

Also notice guys that jim made it clear that mods are allowed to be human and simply may not like you and ban you for that, so kissing mod ass will never be a "bad" idea, per se.

Hey now! I didn't say it like that! Although I agree a little ass kissing definitely won't hurt!

All I meant is that we are ALL human and it's human tendency to act upon our emotions. That's why we have multiple moderators and admins, to make sure we're all in check. I'd like to think it never happens, but nature makes it likely. Fortunately, I think our crew is fair enough to not simply banish people because we don't like them. I directly ask the mods to try not to let things get personal, and should it happen, it may be best to allow another mod to step into that particular issue so to not give the appearance of any abuse. The history here will show that VERY few have been banned before their time was due. I get yelled at when users are banned and other members don't understand why, and I get yelled at when I allow unruly users and threads to continue. I get yelled at if "one of my mods" bans someone, and I get in trouble with them if I overrule their decision. This is what comes with the territory. There really is no decision a mod/admin can make to generally please everyone, only decisions that benefit the board.

Members get angry because threads get locked before they feel it was deserved. I implement code to assist keeping threads alive by having the ability to remove an unruly user from a thread instead of locking it. I get heat for having this option.

Like I said earlier, it's not politics, it's decisions. Sometimes decisions need to be made and someone has to make them. We certainly can't have the board run itself or it would become just another sounding board on the net that runs afoul with abuse. So we institute a few general rules and have a few members appointed to help make sure the rules remain in effect, and that everyone here has an ability to enjoy the board without others ruining it for them.

The bottom line is that there will NEVER be a time where everyone is satisfied with the decision making process, at least not on a political, free speech based forum. The best we can do is the best we can, and learn from our mistakes. Leave the doors open for members to express their likes and dislikes. These things have always been open to members and I will always take the board in the direction that the members want. The only thing I prefer handled via PM is complaints about the board and/or moderators. I don't think it's unfair of me to ask to let me handle internal matters privately.

So now we all air out our thoughts and compile what's left to hopefully move in a better direction, and that's where we're at now. I'll happily leave this thread open to learn as much as I can, I just ask that "what happens in grievances, stays in grievances". I can debate and argue with someone and then happily chat with them about music 3 minutes later. If I can do it, you can all do it.

 

[GotZoom]

The board was a fairly balanced community left leaning/right leaning, though probably a little bit more to the left. Then came the election and the site was mentioned in Drudge Report. After that, the Drudge Sludge, for lack of a better word for these people, invaded the site and destroyed discussion. And, yes, speech was so free that, ultimately, no one could have a conversation b/c of all the intentional abuse by the sludge, so the admins of the site shut it down. Also, the worst offenders thought it amusing to spam the board and, on being banned, changed their ip address/es and started all over again. I remember one night deleting about 150 threads.

"Drudge Sludge"

"invaded"

"destroyed" discussion"

"intentional abuse"

Doesn't sound like you aren't biased at all.

 

[Shattered]

Just wondering how is that? I haven't picked-up on anyone saying "this is how it should be"..Seen many opinions about stuff..nothing else..

Did I not say "seem to want"? I do believe I did..

Umm.. Jillian... Isn't deleting about 150 threads the same as censoring on a "free speech" board? Complaints that threads get *closed* here - tho all the words are still there for everyone to read, and you were deleting entire threads?

 

[GotZoom]

Did I not say "seem to want"? I do believe I did..

Umm.. Jillian... Isn't deleting about 150 threads the same as censoring on a "free speech" board? Complaints that threads get *closed* here - tho all the words are still there for everyone to read, and you were deleting entire threads?

Sweetie...it was the invading Drudge Sludge who intentionally abused the threads and destroyed the discussion.

She had to practice censorship and delete all 150 threads in their entirety.

 

[Mr. P]

Did I not say "seem to want"? I do believe I did..

Umm.. Jillian... Isn't deleting about 150 threads the same as censoring on a "free speech" board? Complaints that threads get *closed* here - tho all the words are still there for everyone to read, and you were deleting entire threads?

Yeah ya did. Want what? Don't leave us hangin.

 

[dilloduck]

Hey now! I didn't say it like that! Although I agree a little ass kissing definitely won't hurt!

All I meant is that we are ALL human and it's human tendency to act upon our emotions. That's why we have multiple moderators and admins, to make sure we're all in check. I'd like to think it never happens, but nature makes it likely. Fortunately, I think our crew is fair enough to not simply banish people because we don't like them. I directly ask the mods to try not to let things get personal, and should it happen, it may be best to allow another mod to step into that particular issue so to not give the appearance of any abuse. The history here will show that VERY few have been banned before their time was due. I get yelled at when users are banned and other members don't understand why, and I get yelled at when I allow unruly users and threads to continue. I get yelled at if "one of my mods" bans someone, and I get in trouble with them if I overrule their decision. This is what comes with the territory. There really is no decision a mod/admin can make to generally please everyone, only decisions that benefit the board.

Members get angry because threads get locked before they feel it was deserved. I implement code to assist keeping threads alive by having the ability to remove an unruly user from a thread instead of locking it. I get heat for having this option.

Like I said earlier, it's not politics, it's decisions. Sometimes decisions need to be made and someone has to make them. We certainly can't have the board run itself or it would become just another sounding board on the net that runs afoul with abuse. So we institute a few general rules and have a few members appointed to help make sure the rules remain in effect, and that everyone here has an ability to enjoy the board without others ruining it for them.

The bottom line is that there will NEVER be a time where everyone is satisfied with the decision making process, at least not on a political, free speech based forum. The best we can do is the best we can, and learn from our mistakes. Leave the doors open for members to express their likes and dislikes. These things have always been open to members and I will always take the board in the direction that the members want. The only thing I prefer handled via PM is complaints about the board and/or moderators. I don't think it's unfair of me to ask to let me handle internal matters privately.

So now we all air out our thoughts and compile what's left to hopefully move in a better direction, and that's where we're at now. I'll happily leave this thread open to learn as much as I can, I just ask that "what happens in grievances, stays in grievances". I can debate and argue with someone and then happily chat with them about music 3 minutes later. If I can do it, you can all do it.

I appreciate you letting everyone hash things out a bit like this.There is something about handling everything privately that leaves a bit of paranoia in peoples' minds. BUT YOU"RE THE BEST,DUDE !!
* KISS KISS KISS * :teeth:

 

[Shattered]

Yeah ya did. Want what? Don't leave us hangin.

Who is "us"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

I haven't seen you pop in with anything other than "mods suck", in a nutshell..

 

[jillian]

"Drudge Sludge"

"invaded"

"destroyed" discussion"

"intentional abuse"

Doesn't sound like you aren't biased at all.

Oh...I absolutely was. Doesn't mean we acted on the bias.

And you didn't see what they did to our home. So there ya go. Or do they get to spam and create obscene threads because they're right wing?