There Will Not Be A Palestinian State

[Mindful]

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

Then, pray tell, what are they asking for?

The Jews to go away?

Don’t know exactly where he posted it but did you see his link in which interviewed Palestinians stated they could NOT envision a “ Two State Solution “ and the ENTIRE area should be considered “ Palestine?” That’s exactly what he wants.., ain’t going to happen

I'm wondering what his stake in all this is.

 

[USAF 2023]

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

Then, pray tell, what are they asking for?

The Jews to go away?

Don’t know exactly where he posted it but did you see his link in which interviewed Palestinians stated they could NOT envision a “ Two State Solution “ and the ENTIRE area should be considered “ Palestine?” That’s exactly what he wants.., ain’t going to happen

I'm wondering what his stake in all this is.

Very simple. He can’t stand the fact that Israel exists. It’s really quite humorous

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: There Will Not Be A Palestinian State
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe this is quibbling over various position statements. There is no one unified voice in the greater population that make-up the Arab Palestinians. And without a single voice, the Arab Palestinians are going to make little headway in the achievement of demand they have made (but not totally agreed upon).

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have their own unique definitions and view of the situation, and while they may say the are not "asking to create a state."

The Arab Palestinians are rattling a number of doors and presenting their case in a number of ways. The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state. While it is not fundamentally the assembled along the lines of the 1947 A/RES/181 (II) - Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is essential serving as an alternative approach.

◈ Borders

✦ The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967...
✦ The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem...
✦ Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

✧ Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
✧ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
✧ Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​

◈ Jerusalem

✦ Jerusalem is an Islamic and Christian [holy place], we many not give it up not relinquish any part of it, it is our right and our spirit, our history, our present and our future, which is the capital of Palestine, and dearest to the hearts of Arabs and Muslims....
✦ Israel has no legitimacy and no right to to Jerusalem at all, nor any legitimacy nor right to all of Palestine.
✦ All actions of Israel in Jerusalem to Judaize and settle and falsification of facts and attempts to fabricate history are void.​

◈ Refugees
◈ Political Prisons
◈ Natural Resources

✦ Mineral Rights
✦ Water​

◈ Security
◈ Economy
◈ Reparations

✦ Claims
✦ Restitution​

◈ Shotgun Array of Issues:

✦ Agriculture
✦ Energy
✦ Telecommunications
✦ Tourism
✦ Cultural Heritage​

There is no way that an outside observer can look at the Arab Palestinian attempt to overturn the nature and intent of the Allied Powers → other than as an attempt by Hostile Arab Palestinians to subvert (by force) the establishment of a Jewish National Home through the use of:

◈ Criminal Acts Directed Against Israel...
◈ Intended or calculated to create a state of terror...

(i) violence
(ii) against non-combatants (or, alternatively, against innocent people) for the sake of
(iii) intimidation (and, on some definitions,
(iv) coercion).​

◈ Commit an array of offences which are solely intended to harm the State of Israel...​

Our friend P F Tinmore is probably correct when he says that, technically, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not specifically demanded the creation of another failing Arab State. BUT, the cumulative effect of all the various aspects and facets of their political positions hear make it abundantly clear as to the direction they are taking the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R

The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state.

The only Palestinians who are begging for crumbs are the appointed leaders in Ramallah and the remnants of the people who bought into that ideology.

The foreign concept of two states that first failed in 1937 is long overdue to be buried. Eighty years of failure is enough.

How will one state, muslim majority, in a part of the world notorius for not protecting the rights of minorities, protect tbe eights of it's Jewish and Christian populations? How could it be aet up to be fair to all?

Excellent question. Let me start by saying that Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PFLP, etc. are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they have no reason for being.

When South Africa ended political apartheid it kept economic apartheid. That is a problem that would have to be addressed to avoid conflict. Ali Abunimah and others have given this problem considerable thought.

Those who would want discrimination would be numerically and politically insignificant.

 

[USAF 2023]

RE: There Will Not Be A Palestinian State
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe this is quibbling over various position statements. There is no one unified voice in the greater population that make-up the Arab Palestinians. And without a single voice, the Arab Palestinians are going to make little headway in the achievement of demand they have made (but not totally agreed upon).

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have their own unique definitions and view of the situation, and while they may say the are not "asking to create a state."

The Arab Palestinians are rattling a number of doors and presenting their case in a number of ways. The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state. While it is not fundamentally the assembled along the lines of the 1947 A/RES/181 (II) - Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is essential serving as an alternative approach.

◈ Borders

✦ The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967...
✦ The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem...
✦ Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

✧ Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
✧ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
✧ Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​

◈ Jerusalem

✦ Jerusalem is an Islamic and Christian [holy place], we many not give it up not relinquish any part of it, it is our right and our spirit, our history, our present and our future, which is the capital of Palestine, and dearest to the hearts of Arabs and Muslims....
✦ Israel has no legitimacy and no right to to Jerusalem at all, nor any legitimacy nor right to all of Palestine.
✦ All actions of Israel in Jerusalem to Judaize and settle and falsification of facts and attempts to fabricate history are void.​

◈ Refugees
◈ Political Prisons
◈ Natural Resources

✦ Mineral Rights
✦ Water​

◈ Security
◈ Economy
◈ Reparations

✦ Claims
✦ Restitution​

◈ Shotgun Array of Issues:

✦ Agriculture
✦ Energy
✦ Telecommunications
✦ Tourism
✦ Cultural Heritage​

There is no way that an outside observer can look at the Arab Palestinian attempt to overturn the nature and intent of the Allied Powers → other than as an attempt by Hostile Arab Palestinians to subvert (by force) the establishment of a Jewish National Home through the use of:

◈ Criminal Acts Directed Against Israel...
◈ Intended or calculated to create a state of terror...

(i) violence
(ii) against non-combatants (or, alternatively, against innocent people) for the sake of
(iii) intimidation (and, on some definitions,
(iv) coercion).​

◈ Commit an array of offences which are solely intended to harm the State of Israel...​

Our friend P F Tinmore is probably correct when he says that, technically, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not specifically demanded the creation of another failing Arab State. BUT, the cumulative effect of all the various aspects and facets of their political positions hear make it abundantly clear as to the direction they are taking the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R

The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state.

The only Palestinians who are begging for crumbs are the appointed leaders in Ramallah and the remnants of the people who bought into that ideology.

The foreign concept of two states that first failed in 1937 is long overdue to be buried. Eighty years of failure is enough.

How will one state, muslim majority, in a part of the world notorius for not protecting the rights of minorities, protect tbe eights of it's Jewish and Christian populations? How could it be aet up to be fair to all?

Excellent question. Let me start by saying that Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PFLP, etc. are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they have no reason for being.

When South Africa ended political apartheid it kept economic apartheid. That is a problem that would have to be addressed to avoid conflict. Ali Abunimah and others have given this problem considerable thought.

Those who would want discrimination would be numerically and politically insignificant.

Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine
Jews have no right to Western Wall, PA 'study' says

I agree! Keep posting!

 

[USAF 2023]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

 

[Coyote]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

 

[Coyote]

RE: There Will Not Be A Palestinian State
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe this is quibbling over various position statements. There is no one unified voice in the greater population that make-up the Arab Palestinians. And without a single voice, the Arab Palestinians are going to make little headway in the achievement of demand they have made (but not totally agreed upon).

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have their own unique definitions and view of the situation, and while they may say the are not "asking to create a state."

The Arab Palestinians are rattling a number of doors and presenting their case in a number of ways. The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state. While it is not fundamentally the assembled along the lines of the 1947 A/RES/181 (II) - Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is essential serving as an alternative approach.

◈ Borders

✦ The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967...
✦ The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem...
✦ Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

✧ Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
✧ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
✧ Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​

◈ Jerusalem

✦ Jerusalem is an Islamic and Christian [holy place], we many not give it up not relinquish any part of it, it is our right and our spirit, our history, our present and our future, which is the capital of Palestine, and dearest to the hearts of Arabs and Muslims....
✦ Israel has no legitimacy and no right to to Jerusalem at all, nor any legitimacy nor right to all of Palestine.
✦ All actions of Israel in Jerusalem to Judaize and settle and falsification of facts and attempts to fabricate history are void.​

◈ Refugees
◈ Political Prisons
◈ Natural Resources

✦ Mineral Rights
✦ Water​

◈ Security
◈ Economy
◈ Reparations

✦ Claims
✦ Restitution​

◈ Shotgun Array of Issues:

✦ Agriculture
✦ Energy
✦ Telecommunications
✦ Tourism
✦ Cultural Heritage​

There is no way that an outside observer can look at the Arab Palestinian attempt to overturn the nature and intent of the Allied Powers → other than as an attempt by Hostile Arab Palestinians to subvert (by force) the establishment of a Jewish National Home through the use of:

◈ Criminal Acts Directed Against Israel...
◈ Intended or calculated to create a state of terror...

(i) violence
(ii) against non-combatants (or, alternatively, against innocent people) for the sake of
(iii) intimidation (and, on some definitions,
(iv) coercion).​

◈ Commit an array of offences which are solely intended to harm the State of Israel...​

Our friend P F Tinmore is probably correct when he says that, technically, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not specifically demanded the creation of another failing Arab State. BUT, the cumulative effect of all the various aspects and facets of their political positions hear make it abundantly clear as to the direction they are taking the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R

The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state.

The only Palestinians who are begging for crumbs are the appointed leaders in Ramallah and the remnants of the people who bought into that ideology.

The foreign concept of two states that first failed in 1937 is long overdue to be buried. Eighty years of failure is enough.

How will one state, muslim majority, in a part of the world notorius for not protecting the rights of minorities, protect tbe eights of it's Jewish and Christian populations? How could it be aet up to be fair to all?

Excellent question. Let me start by saying that Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PFLP, etc. are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they have no reason for being.

When South Africa ended political apartheid it kept economic apartheid. That is a problem that would have to be addressed to avoid conflict. Ali Abunimah and others have given this problem considerable thought.

Those who would want discrimination would be numerically and politically insignificant.

Creatures of conflict do not go away when the conflict ends.

What evidence do you have for this claim?

 

[Pete7469]

Creatures of conflict do not go away when the conflict ends.

But you did not really answer the question.

YES THEY DO. When one of them is defeated decisively and don't want to revisit that pain, they go away.

 

[Hollie]

RE: There Will Not Be A Palestinian State
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe this is quibbling over various position statements. There is no one unified voice in the greater population that make-up the Arab Palestinians. And without a single voice, the Arab Palestinians are going to make little headway in the achievement of demand they have made (but not totally agreed upon).

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have their own unique definitions and view of the situation, and while they may say the are not "asking to create a state."

The Arab Palestinians are rattling a number of doors and presenting their case in a number of ways. The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state. While it is not fundamentally the assembled along the lines of the 1947 A/RES/181 (II) - Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is essential serving as an alternative approach.

◈ Borders

✦ The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967...
✦ The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem...
✦ Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

✧ Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
✧ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
✧ Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​

◈ Jerusalem

✦ Jerusalem is an Islamic and Christian [holy place], we many not give it up not relinquish any part of it, it is our right and our spirit, our history, our present and our future, which is the capital of Palestine, and dearest to the hearts of Arabs and Muslims....
✦ Israel has no legitimacy and no right to to Jerusalem at all, nor any legitimacy nor right to all of Palestine.
✦ All actions of Israel in Jerusalem to Judaize and settle and falsification of facts and attempts to fabricate history are void.​

◈ Refugees
◈ Political Prisons
◈ Natural Resources

✦ Mineral Rights
✦ Water​

◈ Security
◈ Economy
◈ Reparations

✦ Claims
✦ Restitution​

◈ Shotgun Array of Issues:

✦ Agriculture
✦ Energy
✦ Telecommunications
✦ Tourism
✦ Cultural Heritage​

There is no way that an outside observer can look at the Arab Palestinian attempt to overturn the nature and intent of the Allied Powers → other than as an attempt by Hostile Arab Palestinians to subvert (by force) the establishment of a Jewish National Home through the use of:

◈ Criminal Acts Directed Against Israel...
◈ Intended or calculated to create a state of terror...

(i) violence
(ii) against non-combatants (or, alternatively, against innocent people) for the sake of
(iii) intimidation (and, on some definitions,
(iv) coercion).​

◈ Commit an array of offences which are solely intended to harm the State of Israel...​

Our friend P F Tinmore is probably correct when he says that, technically, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not specifically demanded the creation of another failing Arab State. BUT, the cumulative effect of all the various aspects and facets of their political positions hear make it abundantly clear as to the direction they are taking the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R

The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state.

The only Palestinians who are begging for crumbs are the appointed leaders in Ramallah and the remnants of the people who bought into that ideology.

The foreign concept of two states that first failed in 1937 is long overdue to be buried. Eighty years of failure is enough.

How will one state, muslim majority, in a part of the world notorius for not protecting the rights of minorities, protect tbe eights of it's Jewish and Christian populations? How could it be aet up to be fair to all?

Excellent question. Let me start by saying that Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PFLP, etc. are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they have no reason for being.

When South Africa ended political apartheid it kept economic apartheid. That is a problem that would have to be addressed to avoid conflict. Ali Abunimah and others have given this problem considerable thought.

Those who would want discrimination would be numerically and politically insignificant.

What nonsense.

Hamas, for example, is a product of the Muslim Brotherhood and derives its ideology from that group. Just to clue you in, the Muslim Brotherhood came into existence long before the State of Israel.

Additionally, you might want to focus your attention toward events in Gaza where the Muslim Brotherhood won votes for their choice to be dictators in charge of that mini-caliphate. It seems that “moderate moslems”, are only too willing to vote for an Islamic terrorist franchise adhering to a deathcult-like, totalitarian ideology. The Brotherhood creed has everything to do the Islamic creed, the worldwide Islamic ummah, Islam's integrated ideology of conquest and subjugation, and the willingness of its adherents to cooperate in that effort. That willingness might be differentially distributed, but even the most "moderate" Muslim will grudgingly, passively assist his militant co-religionists with his silence.

 

[Shusha]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Still asking the wrong questions. What are Palestinians doing to establish their self-determination? Besides fruitless, low-level terrorist acts? Its a very relevant point. If the Palestinians continue to exhibit a lack of ability to self-determine, then what should be done? That was the whole POINT of the mandate system. We can "believe" in Arab Palestinian self-determination all we want -- but if they can't DO it ... ?shrug? what next?

 

[rylah]

Israel Must Say ‘No’ to US Demands for Palestine

 

[flacaltenn]

RE: There Will Not Be A Palestinian State
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe this is quibbling over various position statements. There is no one unified voice in the greater population that make-up the Arab Palestinians. And without a single voice, the Arab Palestinians are going to make little headway in the achievement of demand they have made (but not totally agreed upon).

The Palestinians are not asking to create a state.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians have their own unique definitions and view of the situation, and while they may say the are not "asking to create a state."

The Arab Palestinians are rattling a number of doors and presenting their case in a number of ways. The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state. While it is not fundamentally the assembled along the lines of the 1947 A/RES/181 (II) - Steps Preparatory to Independence, it is essential serving as an alternative approach.

◈ Borders

✦ The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967...
✦ The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem...
✦ Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

✧ Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
✧ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
✧ Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​

◈ Jerusalem

✦ Jerusalem is an Islamic and Christian [holy place], we many not give it up not relinquish any part of it, it is our right and our spirit, our history, our present and our future, which is the capital of Palestine, and dearest to the hearts of Arabs and Muslims....
✦ Israel has no legitimacy and no right to to Jerusalem at all, nor any legitimacy nor right to all of Palestine.
✦ All actions of Israel in Jerusalem to Judaize and settle and falsification of facts and attempts to fabricate history are void.​

◈ Refugees
◈ Political Prisons
◈ Natural Resources

✦ Mineral Rights
✦ Water​

◈ Security
◈ Economy
◈ Reparations

✦ Claims
✦ Restitution​

◈ Shotgun Array of Issues:

✦ Agriculture
✦ Energy
✦ Telecommunications
✦ Tourism
✦ Cultural Heritage​

There is no way that an outside observer can look at the Arab Palestinian attempt to overturn the nature and intent of the Allied Powers → other than as an attempt by Hostile Arab Palestinians to subvert (by force) the establishment of a Jewish National Home through the use of:

◈ Criminal Acts Directed Against Israel...
◈ Intended or calculated to create a state of terror...

(i) violence
(ii) against non-combatants (or, alternatively, against innocent people) for the sake of
(iii) intimidation (and, on some definitions,
(iv) coercion).​

◈ Commit an array of offences which are solely intended to harm the State of Israel...​

Our friend P F Tinmore is probably correct when he says that, technically, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not specifically demanded the creation of another failing Arab State. BUT, the cumulative effect of all the various aspects and facets of their political positions hear make it abundantly clear as to the direction they are taking the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R

The one P F Tinmore has mentioned here is the position that: The Palestinians are not asking to create a state (in those words) the positions they hold have the cumulative effect of being the positions on these issues make it virtually the same as demanding the creation of a state.

The only Palestinians who are begging for crumbs are the appointed leaders in Ramallah and the remnants of the people who bought into that ideology.

The foreign concept of two states that first failed in 1937 is long overdue to be buried. Eighty years of failure is enough.

How will one state, muslim majority, in a part of the world notorius for not protecting the rights of minorities, protect tbe eights of it's Jewish and Christian populations? How could it be aet up to be fair to all?

Excellent question. Let me start by saying that Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PFLP, etc. are all creatures of conflict. Remove the conflict and they have no reason for being.

When South Africa ended political apartheid it kept economic apartheid. That is a problem that would have to be addressed to avoid conflict. Ali Abunimah and others have given this problem considerable thought.

Those who would want discrimination would be numerically and politically insignificant.

That's silly.. The ONLY governments that "Palestine" has had in the modern era were UNDER the PLO, Hamas and Fatah.. There's not gonna be a condition for them to STOP contesting for power and control. Or some "moderate" pro-democracy fantasy to develop.. This is the Arab Middle East.. Your choices are shotgun toting brutal tyrants or some Arab style Royal house that operates like a corrupt, nepotism infected, semi-socialist style.

A lot of the reason for these choices is the poor country boundaries that the evil Western powers drew on maps in the early 20th Century.. Robbing the Arab culture of it's tribal, sectarian boundaries that were fixated by place of birth and family roots.. All this "statehood" was a RESISTANCE to colonial rule and interference. And it's not the preferred organization chart for the Palestinians either..

But FORCE THEM into a full fledged Statehood, and these same "political parties" will be the contenders.

 

[flacaltenn]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Obviously, Palestinian settlements are growing as well. There's a lot of land that's been "reserved" in the same fashion we have zoning rules here. And what's LEFT is difficult to put on power, water, roadway access to infrastructure and SOMEONE has to pay for it.

Since the Pali govt is all but dissolved and forgotten by its own people, there's no organized agencies or programs for coordinating the planning and execution of a "build out". Or the PUBLIC funds for PUBLIC infrastructure.. But entire new Pali cities are sprouting up for upper Middle class Palis sponsored by private investment. Which is the preferred method of funding things like that. Because of the graft and corruption and mistrust that comes from a powerful "federal" govt in that part of the world..

 

[P F Tinmore]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Obviously, Palestinian settlements are growing as well. There's a lot of land that's been "reserved" in the same fashion we have zoning rules here. And what's LEFT is difficult to put on power, water, roadway access to infrastructure and SOMEONE has to pay for it.

Since the Pali govt is all but dissolved and forgotten by its own people, there's no organized agencies or programs for coordinating the planning and execution of a "build out". Or the PUBLIC funds for PUBLIC infrastructure.. But entire new Pali cities are sprouting up for upper Middle class Palis sponsored by private investment. Which is the preferred method of funding things like that. Because of the graft and corruption and mistrust that comes from a powerful "federal" govt in that part of the world..

You have to remember that Palestine was created under military occupation. Under the British occupation, (euphemistically called the Mandate) Palestinian self governance was forbidden. After the 1948 war the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. In 1967 Israel consolidated all three areas under its own military control. In the Oslo Accords Israel created a bantustan government called the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians were never allowed to have their own government.

Prof Virginia Tilley at 'The Oslo Accords: A Legacy of Broken Promises'

 

[rylah]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Obviously, Palestinian settlements are growing as well. There's a lot of land that's been "reserved" in the same fashion we have zoning rules here. And what's LEFT is difficult to put on power, water, roadway access to infrastructure and SOMEONE has to pay for it.

Since the Pali govt is all but dissolved and forgotten by its own people, there's no organized agencies or programs for coordinating the planning and execution of a "build out". Or the PUBLIC funds for PUBLIC infrastructure.. But entire new Pali cities are sprouting up for upper Middle class Palis sponsored by private investment. Which is the preferred method of funding things like that. Because of the graft and corruption and mistrust that comes from a powerful "federal" govt in that part of the world..

You have to remember that Palestine was created under military occupation. Under the British occupation, (euphemistically called the Mandate) Palestinian self governance was forbidden. After the 1948 war the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. In 1967 Israel consolidated all three areas under its own military control. In the Oslo Accords Israel created a bantustan government called the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians were never allowed to have their own government.

Prof Virginia Tilley at 'The Oslo Accords: A Legacy of Broken Promises'

This is ridiculous, the same as if UN divided the central park.

The UN was not sovereign to divide West Palestine or East Palestine.
After 1948 no one had any power to divide any land but the 2 states which gained independence,
the Arab state of Jordan and the Jewish state of Israel - the only sovereign governments in the land.

The 2 state solution was finalized 70 years ago.

 

[flacaltenn]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Obviously, Palestinian settlements are growing as well. There's a lot of land that's been "reserved" in the same fashion we have zoning rules here. And what's LEFT is difficult to put on power, water, roadway access to infrastructure and SOMEONE has to pay for it.

Since the Pali govt is all but dissolved and forgotten by its own people, there's no organized agencies or programs for coordinating the planning and execution of a "build out". Or the PUBLIC funds for PUBLIC infrastructure.. But entire new Pali cities are sprouting up for upper Middle class Palis sponsored by private investment. Which is the preferred method of funding things like that. Because of the graft and corruption and mistrust that comes from a powerful "federal" govt in that part of the world..

You have to remember that Palestine was created under military occupation. Under the British occupation, (euphemistically called the Mandate) Palestinian self governance was forbidden. After the 1948 war the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. In 1967 Israel consolidated all three areas under its own military control. In the Oslo Accords Israel created a bantustan government called the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians were never allowed to have their own government.

Prof Virginia Tilley at 'The Oslo Accords: A Legacy of Broken Promises'

Not even referring to "NATIONAL" self-governance.. There has ALWAYS been a distrust of strong national federations in the Arab world. Any local govt perhaps grew to the size of City State and WAS NOT prohibited under British Mandate or even Ottoman mandate. In fact, they were encouraged to act as vassels for the occupiers.

Used an article in recent writings about the problems NGOs and orgs like World Bank have in "aiding Palestinians"... Let me give you THEIR observations on perpetual lack of cooperation between even adjacent Pali cities when I get back to my desktop...

 

[Hollie]

you have to remember that Palestine was created under military occupation

Wait, What?

I thought you have insisted that the State of Pally'land was created in 1924.

 

[Mindful]

One would think a Palestinian state had never been on offer. The question to ask surely, is why it was consistently turned down.

From the Boston Globe, an article as valid today as it was then.

But for the better part of a century, Arab leaders of Palestine have consistently said no when presented with the chance to build a state of their own. They said no in 1937, when the British government, which then ruled Palestine, proposed to divide the land into separate Arab and Jewish states. Arab leaders said no again in 1947, choosing to go to war rather than accept the UN’s decision to partition Palestine between its Jewish and Arab populations. When Israel in 1967 offered to relinquish the land it had acquired in exchange for peace with its neighbors, the Arab world’s response, issued at a summit in Khartoum, was not one no, but three: “No peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel.’’

At Camp David in 2000, Israel’s Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians a sovereign state with shared control of Jerusalem and billions of dollars in compensation for Palestinian refugees. Yasser Arafat refused the offer, and returned to launch the deadly terror war known as the Second Intifada.

There is no shortage in this world of stateless peoples yearning for a homeland, many of them ethnic groups with centuries of history, unique in language and culture. Kurds or Tamils or Tibetans - whose longstanding quests for a nation-state the world ignores - must find it maddening to watch the international community trip over itself in its eagerness to proclaim, again and again, the need for a Palestinian state. And they must be baffled by the Palestinians’ invariable refusal to take yes for an answer.

It is no mystery, however. The raison d’être of the Palestinian movement has never been the establishment and building-up of a sovereign Palestinian homeland. It has always been the negation of a sovereign Jewish homeland. That is why well-intended proposals for a “two-state solution’’ have never come to fruition, no matter how earnestly proposed by US presidents or UN secretaries-general. And that is why Abbas and other Palestinian leaders insist that a Palestinian state would be explicitly Arab and Muslim, but adamantly refuse to acknowledge that Israel is legitimately the Jewish state.

“Palestinian nationalism,’’ Edward Said told an interviewer in 1999, “was based on driving all Israelis out.’’ Sadly, it still is.


No to statehood

 

[P F Tinmore]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Obviously, Palestinian settlements are growing as well. There's a lot of land that's been "reserved" in the same fashion we have zoning rules here. And what's LEFT is difficult to put on power, water, roadway access to infrastructure and SOMEONE has to pay for it.

Since the Pali govt is all but dissolved and forgotten by its own people, there's no organized agencies or programs for coordinating the planning and execution of a "build out". Or the PUBLIC funds for PUBLIC infrastructure.. But entire new Pali cities are sprouting up for upper Middle class Palis sponsored by private investment. Which is the preferred method of funding things like that. Because of the graft and corruption and mistrust that comes from a powerful "federal" govt in that part of the world..

You have to remember that Palestine was created under military occupation. Under the British occupation, (euphemistically called the Mandate) Palestinian self governance was forbidden. After the 1948 war the UN divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. In 1967 Israel consolidated all three areas under its own military control. In the Oslo Accords Israel created a bantustan government called the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians were never allowed to have their own government.

Prof Virginia Tilley at 'The Oslo Accords: A Legacy of Broken Promises'

Not even referring to "NATIONAL" self-governance.. There has ALWAYS been a distrust of strong national federations in the Arab world. Any local govt perhaps grew to the size of City State and WAS NOT prohibited under British Mandate or even Ottoman mandate. In fact, they were encouraged to act as vassels for the occupiers.

Used an article in recent writings about the problems NGOs and orgs like World Bank have in "aiding Palestinians"... Let me give you THEIR observations on perpetual lack of cooperation between even adjacent Pali cities when I get back to my desktop...

I am not sure that I understand what you are trying to say.

 

[USAF 2023]

'There will be no Palestinian state here'

This says it all !!!!

They clearly do not recognize the rights of the Palestinians for self determination. So as they spread the settlements what are they going to do with the Palestinians who’s land they take?

Look st Olmert’s offer and tell us why it was rejected. Even if there was a agreement, please tell us why ;
1) No Israelis allowed
2) Why they formally declared the Western Wall will be off limits if they had control
Bet there will NOT be a response