The WikiLeaks Vindication of George W. Bush

[DiveCon]

(I assume you're talking about Somalia) That is simply not the case, buddy.

yes, it was Somalia, and GHW Bush put in a LARGE amount of troops(enough to provide the proper support)
Clinton pulled a bunch of them out and depended on the UN for backups
i remember this quite well as i was really pissed at GHWB for putting troops in harms way knowing Clinton would have to deal with it
i didnt trust Clinton to look out for the better interests of the troops, and history bears out my lack of trust in him'

Clinton removed troops from harms way and involved the UN because Clinton wasn't looking out of the "better interests of the troops"? This is "circular logic" at it's worst.

he should have either left the numbers needed, or pulled them all out
he did neither

 

[Neotrotsky]

You can't deny historical fact. Bush brought us into a preemptive war against a nation that was not a threat to the US or its neighbors. Bush was tasked to fight the war on terrorism. Iraq was not a terroristic threat. Bush botched the war in Iraq and his inadequate manning allowed the insurgents to take over the country and kill 4000 Americans


History will judge Bush accordingly

Thanks for reminding me ! You still have not addressed




I hear you; but hey it is all the left has now that Papa Obama is trying to pull, albeit a poor one, "Clinton"

I feel their pain

I notice as well, the left does not like to talk about current military deaths NOW as much


Speaking of deaths

WASHINGTON, March 27, 2010 -- Newswire services this morning reported that the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan has roughly doubled


The left and the MSM does not talk about war death as much any more. Almost like they can't use it to their political advantage anymore.....

Funny how that works


Where have you gone Cindy Sheehan
Our nation turns it lonely eyes to you

 

[asterism]

Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors and had been effectively neutralized for the last decade. Saddam was obsessed with one thing...Maintaining his power in Iraq...he had given up thoughts of expanding his empire. They were NOT involved in 9-11 and were NOT involved in international terrorism. Bush claimed we needed to invade Iraq NOW not because we needed to liberate its people but because of WMDs and a potential nuclear threat.

That assessment proved to be wrong.

By pulling troops away from Afghanistan, and more importantly, pulling our military inteligence out of Afghanistan he allowed Bin Laden and the Taliban leadership to reestablish itself in northern Pakistan. By pulling troops into Iraq, Bush weakened security in the Afghan provinces and allowed the Taliban to reclaim territory.

Once Obama took office he was forced to redirect the war on terrorism to where it belonged. He had to redeploy troops and recapture previously forfeited territory as well as intensify drone strikes and Pakistani military attacks on Taliban and AlQaeda strongholds.
None of this would have been necessary if Bush had not taken his eye off the ball

Afghanistan is the priority only because there is no safe harbor in Iraq. You are free to think whatever you wish about Saddam. I've found that many left wingers are less than honest about their perceptions depending on who they are getting them from, and I chuckle when they project and demonstrate their ignorance.

I don't think an honest debate on this subject is possible with you.

You can't deny historical fact. Bush brought us into a preemptive war against a nation that was not a threat to the US or its neighbors. Bush was tasked to fight the war on terrorism. Iraq was not a terroristic threat. Bush botched the war in Iraq and his inadequate manning allowed the insurgents to take over the country and kill 4000 Americans


History will judge Bush accordingly

The mere nature of what does and does not constitute a threat makes it subjective. Your opinion is not fact any more than mine is. However, I came to my conclusion by studying the situation from a position of education and experience. That doesn't make me correct because others have just as much if not more education and experience and disagree with me.

You? Not so much.

 

[rightwinger]

You can't deny historical fact. Bush brought us into a preemptive war against a nation that was not a threat to the US or its neighbors. Bush was tasked to fight the war on terrorism. Iraq was not a terroristic threat. Bush botched the war in Iraq and his inadequate manning allowed the insurgents to take over the country and kill 4000 Americans


History will judge Bush accordingly

Thanks for reminding me ! You still have not addressed




I hear you; but hey it is all the left has now that Papa Obama is trying to pull, albeit a poor one, "Clinton"

I feel their pain


I notice as well, the left does not like to talk about current military deaths NOW as much


Speaking of deaths

WASHINGTON, March 27, 2010 -- Newswire services this morning reported that the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan has roughly doubled


The left and the MSM does not talk about war death as much any more. Almost like they can't use it to their political advantage anymore.....

Funny how that works


Where have you gone Cindy Sheehan
Our nation turns it lonely eyes to you

Yes.....It is indeed sad that Americans are still dying in Afghanistan. Can you imagine that after almost ten years, we are still there?

Clearly highlights what Bush taking his eye off the ball did to us. Obama had to go in and retake territory that Bush had given up in his Iraq boondoggle. Bush should have maintained Afghanistan as our sole objective...we would be out by now and Americans would not still be dying

Meanwhile, Bin laden keeps popping up now and again to mock us. If only Bush had properly executed the Tora Bora campaign

 

[asterism]

Bush put in more troops, Clinton pulled a lot of them out
basically left too few to do the missions and depended on other nations for backup
never should have been sent there in the first place, but once there, they needed to have support capable to deal with the contingency

(I assume you're talking about Somalia) That is simply not the case, buddy.

yes, it was Somalia, and GHW Bush put in a LARGE amount of troops(enough to provide the proper support)
Clinton pulled a bunch of them out and depended on the UN for backups
i remember this quite well as i was really pissed at GHWB for putting troops in harms way knowing Clinton would have to deal with it
i didnt trust Clinton to look out for the better interests of the troops, and history bears out my lack of trust in him'

Dive, outside of the 15th MEU what other troops were deployed by Bush? None. There was not a smaller force deployed by Clinton, it was the same size - the 24th MEU. I remember it quite well, a DLI friend was on the 15th MEU and I was on the 24th MEU. We did a few ops together during the transition.

Unified Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
24th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[asterism]

(I assume you're talking about Somalia) That is simply not the case, buddy.

yes, it was Somalia, and GHW Bush put in a LARGE amount of troops(enough to provide the proper support)
Clinton pulled a bunch of them out and depended on the UN for backups
i remember this quite well as i was really pissed at GHWB for putting troops in harms way knowing Clinton would have to deal with it
i didnt trust Clinton to look out for the better interests of the troops, and history bears out my lack of trust in him'

Clinton removed troops from harms way and involved the UN because Clinton wasn't looking out of the "better interests of the troops"? This is "circular logic" at it's worst.

Decreasing the size of a force doesn't make the remaining ones safer (eventhough Clinton didn't do that at all).

 

[DiveCon]

(I assume you're talking about Somalia) That is simply not the case, buddy.

yes, it was Somalia, and GHW Bush put in a LARGE amount of troops(enough to provide the proper support)
Clinton pulled a bunch of them out and depended on the UN for backups
i remember this quite well as i was really pissed at GHWB for putting troops in harms way knowing Clinton would have to deal with it
i didnt trust Clinton to look out for the better interests of the troops, and history bears out my lack of trust in him'

Dive, outside of the 15th MEU what other troops were deployed by Bush? None. There was not a smaller force deployed by Clinton, it was the same size - the 24th MEU. I remember it quite well, a DLI friend was on the 15th MEU and I was on the 24th MEU. We did a few ops together during the transition.

Unified Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
24th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The U.N. asked its member nations for assistance. In December 1992, in one of his last acts as President, George Bush proposed to the U.N. that United States combat troops lead the intervention force. The U.N. accepted this offer and 25,000 U.S. troops were deployed to Somalia. President Bush stated that this would not be an “open-ended commitment.” The objective of Operation Restore Hope was to rapidly secure the trade routes in Somalia so that food could get to the people. President Bush stated that U.S. troops would be home in time for Bill Clinton’s inauguration in January.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]President Clinton supported the U.N. mandate and ordered the number of U.S. troops in Somalia reduced, to be replaced by U.N. troops. By June 1993, only 1200 U.S. troops remained in Somalia,

there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

 

[Neotrotsky]

You can't deny historical fact. Bush brought us into a preemptive war against a nation that was not a threat to the US or its neighbors. Bush was tasked to fight the war on terrorism. Iraq was not a terroristic threat. Bush botched the war in Iraq and his inadequate manning allowed the insurgents to take over the country and kill 4000 Americans


History will judge Bush accordingly

Thanks for reminding me ! You still have not addressed




I hear you; but hey it is all the left has now that Papa Obama is trying to pull, albeit a poor one, "Clinton"

I feel their pain


I notice as well, the left does not like to talk about current military deaths NOW as much


Speaking of deaths

WASHINGTON, March 27, 2010 -- Newswire services this morning reported that the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan has roughly doubled


The left and the MSM does not talk about war death as much any more. Almost like they can't use it to their political advantage anymore.....

Funny how that works


Where have you gone Cindy Sheehan
Our nation turns it lonely eyes to you

Yes.....It is indeed sad that Americans are still dying in Afghanistan. Can you imagine that after almost ten years, we are still there?

Clearly highlights what Bush taking his eye off the ball did to us. Obama had to go in and retake territory that Bush had given up in his Iraq boondoggle. Bush should have maintained Afghanistan as our sole objective...we would be out by now and Americans would not still be dying

Actually, it was calm until Papa Obama started running the show
You remember all those troops being killed while he waited to make a decision
(should have called someone with balls like Hillary)

Meanwhile, Bin laden keeps popping up now and again to mock us. If only Bush had properly executed the Tora Bora campaign

Of course Papa Obama has had two years. One would think with all his war experience he would have found him by now



Oh sure , lets ignore the two years Papa Obama has been in office and the Left and the MSM ignores the deaths, as well.

Where is Cindy? When is the last time someone on this forum wrote something supporting her cause

She is still out there- but now she is not important

Funny how that works

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

George W. Bush's Third State of the Union Address - Wikisource



and that is just a SMALL excerpt

DaGoose wrote:


YET AGAIN:AFTEREFFECTS - GERM WEAPONS - AFTEREFFECTS - GERM WEAPONS - Leading Iraqi Scientist Says He Lied to U.N. Inspectors - NYTimes.com
Iraq to Allow U.N. Inspectors To Resume Weapons Search - The Tech
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO BEATS THESE FACTS? Why can't you people just support us winning, and 25 million people actually having a shot @ a life now? Why? Do your own lives suck THAT bad?


Nice try again, bringing up isolated, freak incidents involving insurgents, and the minority Saddam loyalists who supported them does little to help your lack of a case. I could just as easily pull up polls showing Iraqis happier and more optimistic bout their futures now than under Saddam, and stories of kids waving at our troops, and running up to them and handing them flowers. Get real.

You two can spout off all you want but it still would not bring back the 4000 (plus) American soldiers who died for no good reason.

Bush waged war on a nation who was absolutely no threat to us or anyone else.

Like rightwinger posted......

Abandoning the war on terror to attack Iraq was wrong
The reasons for invading Iraq were wrong
The threat from Iraq did not justify an invasion
Not getting a proper alliance was wrong
The number of troops dedicated to the invasion were inadequate
The assessment of the political situation in Iraq was wrong
The assessment of the Iran/Iraq/Saudi balance of power was wrong
The assessment of the vulnerability of US troops was wrong

Major strategic blunder

It's just too bad so many American soldiers had to pay for that blunder.

both you and rightwinger are completely wrong

Yes, both and and leftwinger are indeed. I've posted why a million times before, I know they've read it before, so Ima save my time.

 

[rdean]

yes, it was Somalia, and GHW Bush put in a LARGE amount of troops(enough to provide the proper support)
Clinton pulled a bunch of them out and depended on the UN for backups
i remember this quite well as i was really pissed at GHWB for putting troops in harms way knowing Clinton would have to deal with it
i didnt trust Clinton to look out for the better interests of the troops, and history bears out my lack of trust in him'

Dive, outside of the 15th MEU what other troops were deployed by Bush? None. There was not a smaller force deployed by Clinton, it was the same size - the 24th MEU. I remember it quite well, a DLI friend was on the 15th MEU and I was on the 24th MEU. We did a few ops together during the transition.

Unified Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
24th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The U.N. asked its member nations for assistance. In December 1992, in one of his last acts as President, George Bush proposed to the U.N. that United States combat troops lead the intervention force. The U.N. accepted this offer and 25,000 U.S. troops were deployed to Somalia. President Bush stated that this would not be an “open-ended commitment.” The objective of Operation Restore Hope was to rapidly secure the trade routes in Somalia so that food could get to the people. President Bush stated that U.S. troops would be home in time for Bill Clinton’s inauguration in January.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]President Clinton supported the U.N. mandate and ordered the number of U.S. troops in Somalia reduced, to be replaced by U.N. troops. By June 1993, only 1200 U.S. troops remained in Somalia,

there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

 

[DiveCon]

Dive, outside of the 15th MEU what other troops were deployed by Bush? None. There was not a smaller force deployed by Clinton, it was the same size - the 24th MEU. I remember it quite well, a DLI friend was on the 15th MEU and I was on the 24th MEU. We did a few ops together during the transition.

Unified Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
24th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]President Clinton supported the U.N. mandate and ordered the number of U.S. troops in Somalia reduced, to be replaced by U.N. troops. By June 1993, only 1200 U.S. troops remained in Somalia,

there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

more proof you are a fucking idiot

 

[asterism]

yes, it was Somalia, and GHW Bush put in a LARGE amount of troops(enough to provide the proper support)
Clinton pulled a bunch of them out and depended on the UN for backups
i remember this quite well as i was really pissed at GHWB for putting troops in harms way knowing Clinton would have to deal with it
i didnt trust Clinton to look out for the better interests of the troops, and history bears out my lack of trust in him'

Dive, outside of the 15th MEU what other troops were deployed by Bush? None. There was not a smaller force deployed by Clinton, it was the same size - the 24th MEU. I remember it quite well, a DLI friend was on the 15th MEU and I was on the 24th MEU. We did a few ops together during the transition.

Unified Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
24th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]The U.N. asked its member nations for assistance. In December 1992, in one of his last acts as President, George Bush proposed to the U.N. that United States combat troops lead the intervention force. The U.N. accepted this offer and 25,000 U.S. troops were deployed to Somalia. President Bush stated that this would not be an “open-ended commitment.” The objective of Operation Restore Hope was to rapidly secure the trade routes in Somalia so that food could get to the people. President Bush stated that U.S. troops would be home in time for Bill Clinton’s inauguration in January.

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]President Clinton supported the U.N. mandate and ordered the number of U.S. troops in Somalia reduced, to be replaced by U.N. troops. By June 1993, only 1200 U.S. troops remained in Somalia,

there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

What units were those 25K US troops from? And the reason there was only 1200 troops in June 1993 was because most of the 15th MEU was already headed home and the 24th MEU hadn't arrived or come on shore for the 2nd time. I think the community college professor is getting some facts wrong. He hasn't disclosed his sources.

 

[asterism]

Dive, outside of the 15th MEU what other troops were deployed by Bush? None. There was not a smaller force deployed by Clinton, it was the same size - the 24th MEU. I remember it quite well, a DLI friend was on the 15th MEU and I was on the 24th MEU. We did a few ops together during the transition.

Unified Task Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
24th Marine Expeditionary Unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]President Clinton supported the U.N. mandate and ordered the number of U.S. troops in Somalia reduced, to be replaced by U.N. troops. By June 1993, only 1200 U.S. troops remained in Somalia,

there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

Genocide?

 

[rdean]

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993




there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

more proof you are a fucking idiot

Briefing: Why Christians are declining in Mideast - CSMonitor.com

Estimates of its Christian population at the time of the US-led invasion in 2003 ranged from 800,000 to 1.4 million – roughly 5 percent of the population. But targeted by killings, kidnappings, and threats, many fled – in far higher proportions than their Sunni and Shiite compatriots: an estimated 20 percent of Iraqi refugees abroad are Christians. Only an estimated 500,000 to 600,000 remain.

Al Qaeda ally in Iraq says all Christians 'legitimate targets' - CSMonitor.com

“All Christian centers, organizations and institutions, leaders and followers, are legitimate targets for the mujahideen [holy warriors]," the Islamic State of Iraq said in a statement posted online late Tuesday.

Iraq's Christian community is one of the world's oldest. But since the 2003 invasion, church bombings, kidnappings, and assassinations have scattered the community. Last year, Human Rights Watch estimated that two-thirds of Iraqi Christians have fled their homes since the war began.

--------------------

Not to mention the unknown number of forced marriages and murders. Iraqi Christians have even been crucified.

And yet, according to you, I'm the "idiot". Even with all the evidence, you refuse to see the truth. Seems more right wingers are like that than not.

 

[rdean]

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993




there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

Genocide?

Genocide in Somalias Jubba Valley and Somali Bantu Refugees in the U.S.

 

[ConHog]

Operation Restore Hope, Battle of Mogadishu,1993




there it is
Bush put in 25K and Clinton reduced it to 1200

[/FONT]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

more proof you are a fucking idiot

You needed MORE proof?

 

[asterism]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

Genocide?

Genocide in Somalias Jubba Valley and Somali Bantu Refugees in the U.S.

I'm aware of the claims. Not one of the researchers who claim there was genocide was ever there and they are wrong. Chaos ruled the day, not some agenda to ethnically cleanse the region. This was, of course, the fatal flaw in the UN's plan in the first place. Activists looking for priority treatment spun it into a case of genocide.

 

[DiveCon]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

more proof you are a fucking idiot

Briefing: Why Christians are declining in Mideast - CSMonitor.com

Estimates of its Christian population at the time of the US-led invasion in 2003 ranged from 800,000 to 1.4 million – roughly 5 percent of the population. But targeted by killings, kidnappings, and threats, many fled – in far higher proportions than their Sunni and Shiite compatriots: an estimated 20 percent of Iraqi refugees abroad are Christians. Only an estimated 500,000 to 600,000 remain.

Al Qaeda ally in Iraq says all Christians 'legitimate targets' - CSMonitor.com

“All Christian centers, organizations and institutions, leaders and followers, are legitimate targets for the mujahideen [holy warriors]," the Islamic State of Iraq said in a statement posted online late Tuesday.

Iraq's Christian community is one of the world's oldest. But since the 2003 invasion, church bombings, kidnappings, and assassinations have scattered the community. Last year, Human Rights Watch estimated that two-thirds of Iraqi Christians have fled their homes since the war began.

--------------------

Not to mention the unknown number of forced marriages and murders. Iraqi Christians have even been crucified.

And yet, according to you, I'm the "idiot". Even with all the evidence, you refuse to see the truth. Seems more right wingers are like that than not.

dipshit, whats any of that got to do with what i said
NOTHING
you remain a fucking idiot

 

[DiveCon]

Odd that Republicans wanted to stop genocide in Somalia, but stood by and watched the Christian massacre in Iraq without lifting a finger. Misplaced loyalties?

more proof you are a fucking idiot

You needed MORE proof?

nope

 

[rightwinger]

Thanks for reminding me ! You still have not addressed




I hear you; but hey it is all the left has now that Papa Obama is trying to pull, albeit a poor one, "Clinton"

I feel their pain


I notice as well, the left does not like to talk about current military deaths NOW as much


Speaking of deaths

WASHINGTON, March 27, 2010 -- Newswire services this morning reported that the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan has roughly doubled


The left and the MSM does not talk about war death as much any more. Almost like they can't use it to their political advantage anymore.....

Funny how that works


Where have you gone Cindy Sheehan
Our nation turns it lonely eyes to you

Yes.....It is indeed sad that Americans are still dying in Afghanistan. Can you imagine that after almost ten years, we are still there?


Actually, it was calm until Papa Obama started running the show
You remember all those troops being killed while he waited to make a decision
(should have called someone with balls like Hillary)

Meanwhile, Bin laden keeps popping up now and again to mock us. If only Bush had properly executed the Tora Bora campaign

Of course Papa Obama has had two years. One would think with all his war experience he would have found him by now



Oh sure , lets ignore the two years Papa Obama has been in office and the Left and the MSM ignores the deaths, as well.

Where is Cindy? When is the last time someone on this forum wrote something supporting her cause

She is still out there- but now she is not important

Funny how that works

We would have been out of Afghanistan by the end of Bush's second term if he had not taken his eye off the ball. His redirection of troops and intel allowed the Taliban to reestablish its grip on Afghanistan.

Obama was there for the taking in Tora Bora....cut off and ready for capture.

Bush held back the American forces and Bin Laden still mocks us