The TRUE cost of ousting Gaddafi

[FactFinder]

Oh. you are talking about the alledged rockets that Hannity and Oliver North were so concerned about. Well. first of all they are alledged. 2nd of all we were in this instance a postive influence on helping the rebels overcome the dictator. That should give us at least a bit of favor from those scary perpetrators, heh?

In the meantime, What the hell do we have all these goddamn agencies for? FBI, CIA NSA Homeland Security, yada, yada yada, etc, etc etc for? If they can't find a threat what the hell are they good for. May as well disband them all and put the money towards paying off China, heh?

 

[ladyliberal]

"I'm not saying anything that isn't true. And if you think I am I challenge you to prove me wrong."

Well, here goes...

A story I linked to in the other thread you started on this topic gave 5-10,000 as the number of unaccounted-for missiles: U.S. aid to help find Libyan missiles - UPI.com. I haven't seen a source for 20-35,000 missing SAMs. And not every unaccounted-for missile has fallen into terrorist hands: some have been used, destroyed, or simply improperly cataloged. From all of the sources I've seen, 20,000 is the total number of such weapons that were present in the country, not the number unaccounted for.

""BUT" those weapons have yet had a chance to get into the wrong hands (we hope)"

I can't quite parse this sentence, but for the record I don't hope that weapons will fall into the wrong hands.

"As it stands be you for this mission or not we had NO PLAN to deal with the possible end results."

This strikes me as very implausible. The US military spends a lot of money working on plans. Given the lessons of history, securing weapons following a rebel victory would surely be on people's minds. I don't sit on NSC meetings, but based on the book "Obama's Wars", detailed military planning goes on at the highest levels in advance of actions (as it presumably did in every modern White House). Perhaps the best evidence that there was a plan is that the US government is actively securing missiles as we speak: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/world/africa/us-sending-contractors-to-secure-libyas-weapons.html

I hate to burst your bubble but didn't you disqualify someone's response in my other thread because they couldn't use the quote function?

Just sayin.....

Ps. The point isn't the amount of them missing its the damage that even a few dozen could do.

Can you be more specific? If you're referring to a post in the thread I referenced in my first post in this thread ("As the left wets themselves over Lybia I have to ask.....", then no I don't think so. I don't recall "disqualify[ing]" any responses based on use of the quote function.

I disagree that the number of missiles is irrelevant. 1000 missing missiles is worse than one missing missiles, and 1001 missing missiles is marginally worse than 1000.

Are you planning to offer any evidence that there was "no plan" to secure weapons in Libya, or should we track down your recollection of my "disqual[ification]" of some third party's statement about something due to a dispute over the quote function first?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"I'm not saying anything that isn't true. And if you think I am I challenge you to prove me wrong."

Well, here goes...

A story I linked to in the other thread you started on this topic gave 5-10,000 as the number of unaccounted-for missiles: U.S. aid to help find Libyan missiles - UPI.com. I haven't seen a source for 20-35,000 missing SAMs. And not every unaccounted-for missile has fallen into terrorist hands: some have been used, destroyed, or simply improperly cataloged. From all of the sources I've seen, 20,000 is the total number of such weapons that were present in the country, not the number unaccounted for.

""BUT" those weapons have yet had a chance to get into the wrong hands (we hope)"

I can't quite parse this sentence, but for the record I don't hope that weapons will fall into the wrong hands.

"As it stands be you for this mission or not we had NO PLAN to deal with the possible end results."

This strikes me as very implausible. The US military spends a lot of money working on plans. Given the lessons of history, securing weapons following a rebel victory would surely be on people's minds. I don't sit on NSC meetings, but based on the book "Obama's Wars", detailed military planning goes on at the highest levels in advance of actions (as it presumably did in every modern White House). Perhaps the best evidence that there was a plan is that the US government is actively securing missiles as we speak: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/world/africa/us-sending-contractors-to-secure-libyas-weapons.html

I hate to burst your bubble but didn't you disqualify someone's response in my other thread because they couldn't use the quote function?

Just sayin.....

Ps. The point isn't the amount of them missing its the damage that even a few dozen could do.

Can you be more specific? If you're referring to a post in the thread I referenced in my first post in this thread ("As the left wets themselves over Lybia I have to ask.....", then no I don't think so. I don't recall "disqualify[ing]" any responses based on use of the quote function.

I disagree that the number of missiles is irrelevant. 1000 missing missiles is worse than one missing missiles, and 1001 missing missiles is marginally worse than 1000.

Are you planning to offer any evidence that there was "no plan" to secure weapons in Libya, or should we track down your recollection of my "disqual[ification]" of some third party's statement about something due to a dispute over the quote function first?

Are you actually asking me to provide proof that we didn't have a plan to secure dangerous weapons in a country we bombed without putting boots on the ground? If so ill just end this obsurd debate now.

 

[FactFinder]

"I'm not saying anything that isn't true. And if you think I am I challenge you to prove me wrong."

Well, here goes...

A story I linked to in the other thread you started on this topic gave 5-10,000 as the number of unaccounted-for missiles: U.S. aid to help find Libyan missiles - UPI.com. I haven't seen a source for 20-35,000 missing SAMs. And not every unaccounted-for missile has fallen into terrorist hands: some have been used, destroyed, or simply improperly cataloged. From all of the sources I've seen, 20,000 is the total number of such weapons that were present in the country, not the number unaccounted for.

""BUT" those weapons have yet had a chance to get into the wrong hands (we hope)"

I can't quite parse this sentence, but for the record I don't hope that weapons will fall into the wrong hands.

"As it stands be you for this mission or not we had NO PLAN to deal with the possible end results."

This strikes me as very implausible. The US military spends a lot of money working on plans. Given the lessons of history, securing weapons following a rebel victory would surely be on people's minds. I don't sit on NSC meetings, but based on the book "Obama's Wars", detailed military planning goes on at the highest levels in advance of actions (as it presumably did in every modern White House). Perhaps the best evidence that there was a plan is that the US government is actively securing missiles as we speak: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/world/africa/us-sending-contractors-to-secure-libyas-weapons.html

I hate to burst your bubble but didn't you disqualify someone's response in my other thread because they couldn't use the quote function?

Just sayin.....

Ps. The point isn't the amount of them missing its the damage that even a few dozen could do.

Can you be more specific? If you're referring to a post in the thread I referenced in my first post in this thread ("As the left wets themselves over Lybia I have to ask.....", then no I don't think so. I don't recall "disqualify[ing]" any responses based on use of the quote function.

I disagree that the number of missiles is irrelevant. 1000 missing missiles is worse than one missing missiles, and 1001 missing missiles is marginally worse than 1000.

Are you planning to offer any evidence that there was "no plan" to secure weapons in Libya, or should we track down your recollection of my "disqual[ification]" of some third party's statement about something due to a dispute over the quote function first?

and why would that somehow be our responsibilty? Talk about mind F'

F'n forget about "LIBYA" Like Iraq it is not ours.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Oh. you are talking about the alledged rockets that Hannity and Oliver North were so concerned about. Well. first of all they are alledged. 2nd of all we were in this instance a postive influence on helping the rebels overcome the dictator. That should give us at least a bit of favor from those scary perpetrators, heh?

In the meantime, What the hell do we have all these goddamn agencies for? FBI, CIA NSA Homeland Security, yada, yada yada, etc, etc etc for? If they can't find a threat what the hell are they good for. May as well disband them all and put the money towards paying off China, heh?

Yo, duchebag who the fuck mentioned Hannity? Here's a link for you that both msnbc and abc have reported on.

Report: 20,000 missiles missing in Libya - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com

Some 20,000 missiles have gone missing in Libya, ABC News reported Tuesday, raising fears that they have fallen into the wrong hands in an unstable region.

ABC News' Brian Ross reported that the disappearance of the weapons from unguarded warehouses was made public at a recent White House meeting.

 

[Flopper]

There are reports that between 20000 and 35000 shoulder fired surface to air rockets are missing. Many have been reported to have already appeared on the black markets.

Yes we spent very little money and lost no lives. "BUT" those weapons have yet had a chance to get into the wrong hands (we hope)

Soldiers of our armed forces are trained to face and secure such dangers. As it stands be you for this mission or not we had NO PLAN to deal with the possible end results. I hate to see any American life lost but at the rate we are going it may well end up being possibly thousands of innocent lives rather than hundreds of soldiers (who are paid and trained to face such risks)

This leading from behind without a thought about future outcomes is far more dangerous than most of you are willing to admit.

Thousands of rockets possibly equal how many airliners shot out of the sky?

Shoulder fired SAMs are affordable and widely available through a variety of sources. China makes them and sells them worldwide.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

There are reports that between 20000 and 35000 shoulder fired surface to air rockets are missing. Many have been reported to have already appeared on the black markets.

Yes we spent very little money and lost no lives. "BUT" those weapons have yet had a chance to get into the wrong hands (we hope)

Soldiers of our armed forces are trained to face and secure such dangers. As it stands be you for this mission or not we had NO PLAN to deal with the possible end results. I hate to see any American life lost but at the rate we are going it may well end up being possibly thousands of innocent lives rather than hundreds of soldiers (who are paid and trained to face such risks)

This leading from behind without a thought about future outcomes is far more dangerous than most of you are willing to admit.

Thousands of rockets possibly equal how many airliners shot out of the sky?

Shoulder fired SAMs are affordable and widely available through a variety of sources. China makes them and sells them worldwide.

well that makes complete sense since random terrorists are known to be wealthy and regularly buy major weapon systems from China.

 

[ladyliberal]

Are you actually asking me to provide proof that we didn't have a plan to secure dangerous weapons in a country we bombed without putting boots on the ground? If so ill just end this obsurd debate now.

As I believe you are alluding to, it's logically impossible to prove there was no plan. You said there was no plan, then challenged us to prove otherwise. I told you why I felt confident that at least one plan which addressed those issues existed. I had imagined you might have explained your assertion that there was no plan, providing evidence though not proof (which I think we agree would be impossible). If you don't want to, that's fine with me.

I would however like to know what you're referring to about the quote function thing. I certainly never intended to suggest that someone's opinions were invalid due to any technical deficiency, and I'd like to know which post gave that impression.

 

[FactFinder]

Oh. you are talking about the alledged rockets that Hannity and Oliver North were so concerned about. Well. first of all they are alledged. 2nd of all we were in this instance a postive influence on helping the rebels overcome the dictator. That should give us at least a bit of favor from those scary perpetrators, heh?

In the meantime, What the hell do we have all these goddamn agencies for? FBI, CIA NSA Homeland Security, yada, yada yada, etc, etc etc for? If they can't find a threat what the hell are they good for. May as well disband them all and put the money towards paying off China, heh?

Yo, duchebag who the fuck mentioned Hannity? Here's a link for you that both msnbc and abc have reported on.

Report: 20,000 missiles missing in Libya - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com

Some 20,000 missiles have gone missing in Libya, ABC News reported Tuesday, raising fears that they have fallen into the wrong hands in an unstable region.

ABC News' Brian Ross reported that the disappearance of the weapons from unguarded warehouses was made public at a recent White House meeting.

So who care who you saw report it? Why is it our problem. Let the F'n French or someone else worry about it for a change. For the 1st thing it is still all speculative bullcrap and whatif scenarios. Sounds like the same sort of crap that got us into Iraq in a most mindless manner. Like that did us a world of good and only put us in debt a couple trillion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Are you actually asking me to provide proof that we didn't have a plan to secure dangerous weapons in a country we bombed without putting boots on the ground? If so ill just end this obsurd debate now.

As I believe you are alluding to, it's logically impossible to prove there was no plan. You said there was no plan, then challenged us to prove otherwise. I told you why I felt confident that at least one plan which addressed those issues existed. I had imagined you might have explained your assertion that there was no plan, providing evidence though not proof (which I think we agree would be impossible). If you don't want to, that's fine with me.

I would however like to know what you're referring to about the quote function thing. I certainly never intended to suggest that someone's opinions were invalid due to any technical deficiency, and I'd like to know which post gave that impression.

The only challenge I laid out was for him to prove that we didn't get involved with another countrys war with a plan to secure weapons. If you consider thousands of missing rockets a successful plan then you got bigger problems than attempting to prove me wrong. If we had a plan to secure weapons it failed horribly. Even the network that LOVES OBAMA admits as much.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program of partisan bullshit.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Oh. you are talking about the alledged rockets that Hannity and Oliver North were so concerned about. Well. first of all they are alledged. 2nd of all we were in this instance a postive influence on helping the rebels overcome the dictator. That should give us at least a bit of favor from those scary perpetrators, heh?

In the meantime, What the hell do we have all these goddamn agencies for? FBI, CIA NSA Homeland Security, yada, yada yada, etc, etc etc for? If they can't find a threat what the hell are they good for. May as well disband them all and put the money towards paying off China, heh?

Yo, duchebag who the fuck mentioned Hannity? Here's a link for you that both msnbc and abc have reported on.

Report: 20,000 missiles missing in Libya - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com

Some 20,000 missiles have gone missing in Libya, ABC News reported Tuesday, raising fears that they have fallen into the wrong hands in an unstable region.

ABC News' Brian Ross reported that the disappearance of the weapons from unguarded warehouses was made public at a recent White House meeting.

So who care who you saw report it? Why is it our problem. Let the F'n French or someone else worry about it for a change. For the 1st thing it is still all speculative bullcrap and whatif scenarios. Sounds like the same sort of crap that got us into Iraq in a most mindless manner. Like that did us a world of good and only put us in debt a couple trillion.

The whitehouse reported the missing weapons so it must be speculative bullshit eh? And fuck the French. It's our planes in danger.

 

[FactFinder]

Are you actually asking me to provide proof that we didn't have a plan to secure dangerous weapons in a country we bombed without putting boots on the ground? If so ill just end this obsurd debate now.

As I believe you are alluding to, it's logically impossible to prove there was no plan. You said there was no plan, then challenged us to prove otherwise. I told you why I felt confident that at least one plan which addressed those issues existed. I had imagined you might have explained your assertion that there was no plan, providing evidence though not proof (which I think we agree would be impossible). If you don't want to, that's fine with me.

I would however like to know what you're referring to about the quote function thing. I certainly never intended to suggest that someone's opinions were invalid due to any technical deficiency, and I'd like to know which post gave that impression.

The only challenge I laid out was for him to prove that we didn't get involved with another countrys war with a plan to secure weapons. If you consider thousands of missing rockets a successful plan then you got bigger problems than attempting to prove me wrong. If we had a plan to secure weapons it failed horribly. Even the network that LOVES OBAMA admits as much.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program of partisan bullshit.

Well you may think everyone is partison. But you are a Grandpa that may be a bit alzheimerish. 1st of all, I hate both parties. I am glad that we limited our participation in "LIBYA" and next I wish we had no part of it to begin with. I subscribe to the Ron Paul foreign policy and think we should cease and desisit from all involvement. PERIOD. If you want to create ghosts and conjure up images of destruction. SHAME ON YOU! Your parnoia sucks and doesn't belong to me or my family. Get a life and live for peace. It starts with not condemning your neighbor. How about having a little faith that the people who would overthrow a bastard have a bit of a sense of goodwill.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As I believe you are alluding to, it's logically impossible to prove there was no plan. You said there was no plan, then challenged us to prove otherwise. I told you why I felt confident that at least one plan which addressed those issues existed. I had imagined you might have explained your assertion that there was no plan, providing evidence though not proof (which I think we agree would be impossible). If you don't want to, that's fine with me.

I would however like to know what you're referring to about the quote function thing. I certainly never intended to suggest that someone's opinions were invalid due to any technical deficiency, and I'd like to know which post gave that impression.

The only challenge I laid out was for him to prove that we didn't get involved with another countrys war with a plan to secure weapons. If you consider thousands of missing rockets a successful plan then you got bigger problems than attempting to prove me wrong. If we had a plan to secure weapons it failed horribly. Even the network that LOVES OBAMA admits as much.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program of partisan bullshit.

Well you may think everyone is partison. But you are a Grandpa that may be a bit alzheimerish. 1st of all, I hate both parties. I am glad that we limited our participation in "LIBYA" and next I wish we had no part of it to begin with. I subscribe to the Ron Paul foreign policy and think we should cease and desisit from all involvement. PERIOD. If you want to create ghosts and conjure up images of destruction. SHAME ON YOU! Your parnoia sucks and doesn't belong to me or my family. Get a life and live for peace. It starts with not condemning your neighbor. How about having a little faith that the people who would overthrow a bastard have a bit of a sense of goodwill.

YOU telling ME to get a life is a riot. Especially when you consider its 11 pm on a Friday night.

Now stick your head back in the sand. It suits you well.

 

[FactFinder]

The only challenge I laid out was for him to prove that we didn't get involved with another countrys war with a plan to secure weapons. If you consider thousands of missing rockets a successful plan then you got bigger problems than attempting to prove me wrong. If we had a plan to secure weapons it failed horribly. Even the network that LOVES OBAMA admits as much.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program of partisan bullshit.

Well you may think everyone is partison. But you are a Grandpa that may be a bit alzheimerish. 1st of all, I hate both parties. I am glad that we limited our participation in "LIBYA" and next I wish we had no part of it to begin with. I subscribe to the Ron Paul foreign policy and think we should cease and desisit from all involvement. PERIOD. If you want to create ghosts and conjure up images of destruction. SHAME ON YOU! Your parnoia sucks and doesn't belong to me or my family. Get a life and live for peace. It starts with not condemning your neighbor. How about having a little faith that the people who would overthrow a bastard have a bit of a sense of goodwill.

YOU telling ME to get a life is a riot. Especially when you consider its 11 pm on a Friday night.

Now stick your head back in the sand. It suits you well.

I don't know what 11 pm on a Friday night has to do with a hill of beans other than your diversion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Well you may think everyone is partison. But you are a Grandpa that may be a bit alzheimerish. 1st of all, I hate both parties. I am glad that we limited our participation in "LIBYA" and next I wish we had no part of it to begin with. I subscribe to the Ron Paul foreign policy and think we should cease and desisit from all involvement. PERIOD. If you want to create ghosts and conjure up images of destruction. SHAME ON YOU! Your parnoia sucks and doesn't belong to me or my family. Get a life and live for peace. It starts with not condemning your neighbor. How about having a little faith that the people who would overthrow a bastard have a bit of a sense of goodwill.

YOU telling ME to get a life is a riot. Especially when you consider its 11 pm on a Friday night.

Now stick your head back in the sand. It suits you well.

I don't know what 11 pm on a Friday night has to do with a hill of beans other than your diversion.

Of course you don't know what it means, your a complete imbecile.

 

[FactFinder]

So you still haven't stated why we should commit fame, fortune, troops or anything toward Libya for anything other than some "maybe there was rockets in a closet" situation. and.. "We feel so guilty that anyone with a rocket will surely come after us" freakin mental paranoia crap. I say leave them alone and they are more likely to not bother us. Why do we care? and What the hell do they have to do with us anyway? What you own stock in Glencore or something?

 

[oreo]

How can you say such shit after what Bush did?

Well if we haven't learned anything over the last 50 years--is you don't hand over weapons to ANYONE in the middle east without those weapons ending up being pointed at us one day.

We do not know who these people are--and just judging how they treated Quadfy's body--they look pretty extreme to me.

 

[FactFinder]

How can you say such shit after what Bush did?

Well if we haven't learned anything over the last 50 years--is you don't hand over weapons to ANYONE in the middle east without those weapons ending up being pointed at us one day.

We do not know who these people are--and just judging how they treated Quadfy's body--they look pretty extreme to me.

and so what weapons were those that were pointed at us? Our own airplanes? Seems a sorry state that they cannot come up with their own, Just use our own weaknesses against us. Who needs 10000 rockets. Now are you accusing the current revolutionaries of giving a shit about America? Seems they have plenty else to think about. Come to think of it. This is a very lame thread that lacks any backbone or merit to it.

 

[IndependntLogic]

How can you say such shit after what Bush did?

Because a great victory for America is a defeat for the Republican Party.

I don't see that the OP is putting responsibility for ousting Gadaffi on The USA or even Obama. We didn't start the rebellion or lead the way in assisting them.
The country had a harsh dictator, the people rebelled, got help from a bunch of good guys and won. Is grampa saying this a bad thing? All I read in the OP is that like any rebellion, this one has a mess to deal with afterward.

Good thing we've got a president whose only strong suit seems to be killing terrorsts and catching them BEFORE they blow shet up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

How can you say such shit after what Bush did?

Well if we haven't learned anything over the last 50 years--is you don't hand over weapons to ANYONE in the middle east without those weapons ending up being pointed at us one day.

We do not know who these people are--and just judging how they treated Quadfy's body--they look pretty extreme to me.

and so what weapons were those that were pointed at us? Our own airplanes? Seems a sorry state that they cannot come up with their own, Just use our own weaknesses against us. Who needs 10000 rockets. Now are you accusing the current revolutionaries of giving a shit about America? Seems they have plenty else to think about. Come to think of it. This is a very lame thread that lacks any backbone or merit to it.

I'm not one to neg people. Your making it really hard so I'm just gonna end on this instead of going that route.....

Fuck you