The Republican Collapse

Discussion in 'Politics' started by midcan5, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    The Republican Collapse By David Brooks

    "...The world is too complex, the Burkean conservative believes, for rapid reform. Existing arrangements contain latent functions that can be neither seen nor replaced by the reformer. The temperamental conservative prizes epistemological modesty, the awareness of the limitations on what we do and can know, what we can and cannot plan.

    Over the past six years, the Bush administration has operated on the assumption that if you change the political institutions in Iraq, the society will follow. But the Burkean conservative believes that society is an organism; that custom, tradition and habit are the prime movers of that organism; and that successful government institutions grow gradually from each nation’s unique network of moral and social restraints.

    Over the past few years, the vice president and the former attorney general have sought to expand executive power as much as possible in the name of protecting Americans from terror. But the temperamental conservative believes that power must always be clothed in constitutionalism. The dispositional conservative is often more interested in means than ends (the reverse of President Bush) and asks how power is divided before asking for what purpose it is used."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/05/opinion/05brooks.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
     
  2. jreeves
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    jreeves Senior Member

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    :clap2:
    :clap2: Wow big suprise you mean the New York Times thinks conservative policies are wrong.
     
  3. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    What I find interesting here is the title states "Republican collapse;" yet, the article takes a shot at conservatives. And I disagree with the author's assumption that conservatives ask how power is divided before asking for what purpose it is to be used.

    Actual conservative thinking would ask first and foremost "Does he/the government need the power to begin with?"

    I also have a hard time reconciling the accusation of accumulation of power by the President when I can think of no clearer example of doing such as the "line-item veto." I don't recall THAT one being Bush's.

    Note that I am not arguing against the fact that the accumulation of power by the executive branch has not been taking place. I am merely pointing out that it didn't just start with the current President, nor even his predecessor.
     
  4. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Jreeves, Gunny,

    The columnist is a conservative writing for the NYT, remember liberals are tolerant even of bad ideas as sometimes we need to understand bad ideas. Where they come from and why.

    Bush is a conservative who has grown government and yet made it operate as a partisan corporation full of flunkies. The idea that because conservatism has failed, most admit that now, does not excuse the republicans who espouse conservative principles from what they have wrought.
     
  5. jreeves
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    jreeves Senior Member

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    But American conservatism is only successful when it’s in tension — when the ambition of its creeds is restrained by the caution of its Burkean roots.
    http://topics.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/BROOKS-BIO.html

    I do think that Bush hasn't espoused these ideas, that doesn't mean that conservatism as a whole has failed.
     
  6. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    I have a large problem when the only blame assigned for any failure real or imagined is assigned to liberal ideas. Sure everyone is running from the Cheney Bush administration but it is based on conservatism, it primary architect Rove is a conservative, all it support comes from conservatives, so if it is a failure so is conservatism. Sorry, time you guys faced that fact.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_06/009015.php

    "For the first time since 1932, conservatives have controlled every branch of government. They had a chance to show they had a real governing ideology, and it turned out they didn't."
     
  7. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    That should be nailed to the forehead of everyone who says they are "conservative" when what they are is just nutty. Now the reactionaries will be frothing. They need to read the article carefully. I have to say it's an impressive piece and while I don't like conservatism I appreciate its place as a bona fide political theory that deserves its place in society as an anchor, helping to guard against the over-enthusiastic excesses of progressivism.
     
  8. LordBrownTrout
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    LordBrownTrout Gold Member

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    Both systems are broke imo. The two ideologies will remain but the candidates on either side will continue to distort the ideology. Classical liberalism, 1700's, is in no way comparable to what the dems are trotting out today. It's criminal considering the tax first, no solution method that is completely devoid of critical thought. Conservatism today, at least among the candidates, looks more like the 50, 60's liberalism. And of course the founders would look down upon what it has become in terms of spending.
     
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  9. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    Nah, problem is capitalism is on its last legs LBT. You won't like it but it is. Best to try and cut a deal rather than continue in denialism. You're obfuscating, sue for peace :D
     
  10. LordBrownTrout
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    LordBrownTrout Gold Member

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    Hmmmm, what makes you say that, Diuretic? And you're right, I do like capitalism, especially small business.
     

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