The Real Reasons Most Israelis Support Two States

[Shusha]

... it is much more secure to let the hostile populations to attack Israel from a sovereign state.

It is. The way international laws are structured sovereign on sovereign warfare is much more black-and-white than dealing with hostile populations within your own nation. And actual secure borders are relatively easy to maintain, both legally and practically.

And after possible Israel's destruction as a result of such "exposure", the world eventually acknowledge: "yeah, Israel was right". Really good idea.

A newly formed Arab Palestine would not have the ability to destroy Israel. I think you would agree with me. So, the point here is that Arab Palestine would have allies who would join in an attempt to destroy her. We agree. But here's the thing. International law is very clear that sovereign states must not attack other sovereign states. There would be absolutely no foundation in law for this. Surely, you don't think that the majority of States in the world would contribute to or support Israel's destruction, do you? Surely, you don't think the international community would support hostilities after a peace treaty was reached, signed, sealed and delivered?

May be it's a time to answer the question: why the world constantly misses the messages?

We all know the answer to that. The question is not what it is. We know what it is. The question is how to deal with it. Labeling it for what it is seems like an effective first step.

The right to self-determination of the Jewish people was already implemented.

Not fully.

Self-determination for the Arab Palestinians? They already have it. The concept of self-determination doesn't necessarily mean full independence.

Yes, it does. Full sovereignty is the only acceptable meaning of self-determination. Anything less than being able to fully determine one's own fate is being controlled by others. Not acceptable. While I have no problem with a gradual release into full self-determination (which is what the Mandate system was FOR) -- the end goal MUST be full sovereignty. Seriously? Would you accept anything less for Israel? Then you can't accept anything less for Arab Palestine.

The best way to save the lives of soldiers is to dissolve the army.

Agreed. But not until the threat is ended.

Divorce? They never married.

Agreed. The point is that the two cultures (at this point in time) are fundamentally incompatible.

 

[rylah]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

"Thoughts?"...so many that I think we'll need a new dictionary.

Shusha I appreciate Your ability to reason, especially in trying to reach a balance.

Now, as the article mentioned, there's a broad range of views on this in the Israeli society, as we're pretty evenly divided between left and right; So before we discuss a 3rd option, I'd like to see how You find practical common ground with this voice opposing the term "2 state solution":

(2015)

 

[Shusha]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

"Thoughts?"...so many that I think we'll need a new dictionary.

Shusha I appreciate Your ability to reason, especially in trying to reach a balance.

Now, as the article mentioned, there's a broad range of views on this in the Israeli society, as we're pretty evenly divided between left and right; So before we discuss a 3rd option, I'd like to see how You find practical common ground with this voice opposing the term "2 state solution":

(2015)

I didn't watch the video, but I'm familiar with Caroline's work and have read her book (though its been a while).

Personally, I'm not convinced that Caroline's plan is workable, though I admire many of her arguments.

I think the "common ground" necessary here then, would be to convince us that her plan of a single State of Israel is workable.

 

[rylah]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

"Thoughts?"...so many that I think we'll need a new dictionary.

Shusha I appreciate Your ability to reason, especially in trying to reach a balance.

Now, as the article mentioned, there's a broad range of views on this in the Israeli society, as we're pretty evenly divided between left and right; So before we discuss a 3rd option, I'd like to see how You find practical common ground with this voice opposing the term "2 state solution":

(2015)

I didn't watch the video, but I'm familiar with Caroline's work and have read her book (though its been a while).

Personally, I'm not convinced that Caroline's plan is workable, though I admire many of her arguments.

I think the "common ground" necessary here then, would be to convince us that her plan of a single State of Israel is workable.

To me it looks like the 2nd argument in the article is self contradicting, while Caroline argues directly from the point after ..."the narrative" been exposed, which in any foreseeable possibility is war - and more possibly against those who'll infiltrate this new weak state.

If I understand Caroline argument, her main point is demographics. She's not talking about Gaza.
We're on the way to be 1/3 Orthodox society, Arab birthrates decline globally, in the WB no different.

Also I think Caroline knows a bit about the 3rd regional option, which might take another decade.
With the current situation nothing can be solved before the middle east comes to terms with Iran,
Hamas included - the rest wait for the decision of their Sheikhs when it's clear who takes over after Abbas, which again means a decision on a specific regional agenda.

 

[USAF 2023]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

There are problems that the Palestinians themselves have created;
Israel offered them MOST of everything they wanted which they rejected. They don’t want the “ Two State Solution” Their goal is to eventually annex Israel to “ Palestine” by their becoming the majority. That will never happen

No I correct you,All the Palestinian problems were created by Synthetic NON JEWS,only Converts to Judaism.....Real Jews and Palestinians get on well,because they are cousins,both decendents from Abraham making only these two peoples Semitic Peoples......SOMETHING CONVERTS CAN NEVER BE as these ZIONIST CULT MEMBERS ARE riff raff mainly from central Asia...Fact,they have NO REASON TO BE IN PALESTINE

No: I correct you. There was Anti Hate long before 1948. Hebron is only ONE small example! They were from Central Asia? Palestinians do not have the right to be on JEWISH LAND !!!!

 

[theliq]

"Israel Should Annex The West Bank and The Gaza Strip"

So says Moshe Feiglin is chairman of Israel’s Zehut Party and a former Likud Knesset Member.

Probably would be a whole lot better than the phony Two-State Plan that will go nowhere.

As for the Palestinians, Feiglin’s plan would grant them three options:

Palestinians can remain as permanent residents of Israel “and not be afraid” of PA reprisal. The Palestinians would need to declare that they are loyal to the Jewish state before becoming permanent residents. They will be fully protected by the Israel Defense Forces and Israeli police.

Offer Palestinians wishing to leave a generous emigration package that would include the purchase of their homes, money to start a new life, and assistance with expediting the immigration process to new countries.

Palestinians willing to serve in the Israeli military, pass Hebrew language and Israeli history proficiency tests and pledge their loyalty would eventually be granted full Israeli citizenship.

It appears they would be a whole lot better as a part of Israel than they are now.

More of this @ Moshe Feiglin: Time for Israel to Annex West Bank, Gaza Strip

The Israelis will eventually annex most of the West Bank and let the Jordanians handle the rest, while Egypt and Israel can invade Gaza, then Egypt will reoccupy Gaza, overthrow Hamas, and impose an Egyptian run govt. (with Israel giving financial concessions to Egypt for it)

Case closed.

Haha, funny. Israel created Hamas to get Egypt out.

That is three decades old news. Israel preferred Hamas over Arafat, now, Hamas is behaving far worse than Arafat and his goons did.

so stop Whinging...steve

Indeed, stop whining, steve.

IT IS WHINGING.....ACTUALLY

 

[theliq]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

There are problems that the Palestinians themselves have created;
Israel offered them MOST of everything they wanted which they rejected. They don’t want the “ Two State Solution” Their goal is to eventually annex Israel to “ Palestine” by their becoming the majority. That will never happen

No I correct you,All the Palestinian problems were created by Synthetic NON JEWS,only Converts to Judaism.....Real Jews and Palestinians get on well,because they are cousins,both decendents from Abraham making only these two peoples Semitic Peoples......SOMETHING CONVERTS CAN NEVER BE as these ZIONIST CULT MEMBERS ARE riff raff mainly from central Asia...Fact,they have NO REASON TO BE IN PALESTINE

No: I correct you. There was Anti Hate long before 1948. Hebron is only ONE small example! They were from Central Asia? Palestinians do not have the right to be on JEWISH LAND !!!!

AND ZIONISTS COLLABORATED WITH HITLER,SENDING DECENT INNOCENT JEWS TO THEIR DEATHS...YOU AHOLE

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

One Would Be a State, the Other a Missile Base

Yellow Jews meekly marching to another Holocaust.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

"Israel Should Annex The West Bank and The Gaza Strip"

So says Moshe Feiglin is chairman of Israel’s Zehut Party and a former Likud Knesset Member.

Probably would be a whole lot better than the phony Two-State Plan that will go nowhere.

As for the Palestinians, Feiglin’s plan would grant them three options:

Palestinians can remain as permanent residents of Israel “and not be afraid” of PA reprisal. The Palestinians would need to declare that they are loyal to the Jewish state before becoming permanent residents. They will be fully protected by the Israel Defense Forces and Israeli police.

Offer Palestinians wishing to leave a generous emigration package that would include the purchase of their homes, money to start a new life, and assistance with expediting the immigration process to new countries.

Palestinians willing to serve in the Israeli military, pass Hebrew language and Israeli history proficiency tests and pledge their loyalty would eventually be granted full Israeli citizenship.

It appears they would be a whole lot better as a part of Israel than they are now.

More of this @ Moshe Feiglin: Time for Israel to Annex West Bank, Gaza Strip

The Israelis will eventually annex most of the West Bank and let the Jordanians handle the rest, while Egypt and Israel can invade Gaza, then Egypt will reoccupy Gaza, overthrow Hamas, and impose an Egyptian run govt. (with Israel giving financial concessions to Egypt for it)

Case closed.

Appease Porridge Hot

Assuming Egypt's Moslem Brotherhood has been permanently disbanded.

 

[rylah]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

There are problems that the Palestinians themselves have created;
Israel offered them MOST of everything they wanted which they rejected. They don’t want the “ Two State Solution” Their goal is to eventually annex Israel to “ Palestine” by their becoming the majority. That will never happen

No I correct you,All the Palestinian problems were created by Synthetic NON JEWS,only Converts to Judaism.....Real Jews and Palestinians get on well,because they are cousins,both decendents from Abraham making only these two peoples Semitic Peoples......SOMETHING CONVERTS CAN NEVER BE as these ZIONIST CULT MEMBERS ARE riff raff mainly from central Asia...Fact,they have NO REASON TO BE IN PALESTINE

No: I correct you. There was Anti Hate long before 1948. Hebron is only ONE small example! They were from Central Asia? Palestinians do not have the right to be on JEWISH LAND !!!!

AND ZIONISTS COLLABORATED WITH HITLER,SENDING DECENT INNOCENT JEWS TO THEIR DEATHS...YOU AHOLE

No, Jews had to make hard decisions about whom to rescue, while the Palestinian Mufti was busy inciting on German radio about the the "Final Solution"...of course the Armenian genocide experience and his Iraqi Pogroms looked good on the resume.

 

[Shusha]

To me it looks like the 2nd argument in the article is self contradicting, while Caroline argues directly from the point after ..."the narrative" been exposed, which in any foreseeable possibility is war - and more possibly against those who'll infiltrate this new weak state.

The assumption of the second argument (exposure of the Arab Palestinian goal), imo, is that once there is a peace agreement and sovereignty for everyone -- the Arab Palestinians will lose international support if they dick with it. I'm sure they are going to. And yes, that probably means war. But hopefully, the international community will slap the Arab Palestinians silly for making war as a sovereign state upon another sovereign state.

If I understand Caroline argument, her main point is demographics. She's not talking about Gaza.
We're on the way to be 1/3 Orthodox society, Arab birthrates decline globally, in the WB no different.

Yep. I think her point is that Israel shouldn't be afraid of the demographics. But I think the problem of terrorism is big enough without the demographics in terms of democracy. Bigger.

Also I think Caroline knows a bit about the 3rd regional option, which might take another decade.

Wait it out is certainly an option.

With the current situation nothing can be solved before the middle east comes to terms with Iran,
Hamas included - the rest wait for the decision of their Sheikhs when it's clear who takes over after Abbas, which again means a decision on a specific regional agenda.

We agree.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

"Thoughts?"...so many that I think we'll need a new dictionary.

Shusha I appreciate Your ability to reason, especially in trying to reach a balance.

Now, as the article mentioned, there's a broad range of views on this in the Israeli society, as we're pretty evenly divided between left and right; So before we discuss a 3rd option, I'd like to see how You find practical common ground with this voice opposing the term "2 state solution":

(2015)

Dhimmification

Without Likud, you're licked.

 

[Sixties Fan]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

There are problems that the Palestinians themselves have created;
Israel offered them MOST of everything they wanted which they rejected. They don’t want the “ Two State Solution” Their goal is to eventually annex Israel to “ Palestine” by their becoming the majority. That will never happen

No I correct you,All the Palestinian problems were created by Synthetic NON JEWS,only Converts to Judaism.....Real Jews and Palestinians get on well,because they are cousins,both decendents from Abraham making only these two peoples Semitic Peoples......SOMETHING CONVERTS CAN NEVER BE as these ZIONIST CULT MEMBERS ARE riff raff mainly from central Asia...Fact,they have NO REASON TO BE IN PALESTINE

No: I correct you. There was Anti Hate long before 1948. Hebron is only ONE small example! They were from Central Asia? Palestinians do not have the right to be on JEWISH LAND !!!!

AND ZIONISTS COLLABORATED WITH HITLER,SENDING DECENT INNOCENT JEWS TO THEIR DEATHS...YOU AHOLE

You do not miss one opportunity to falsify history.

Annual 4 Chapter 17 - Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center

And NO. For the thousandth time......Jews and Arabs are not cousins.
Arabs do not get to suddenly become cousins to the Jewish people.
Islam and this idea of being cousins only came about when Islam was founded in order to borrow Abraham as their Patriarch.

It took 2400 years for any Arab to assume a relation to Abraham and the Jewish People?

What were they doing during all of those 2400 years?

Just when these did these Arab cousins come to help their relatives during any of those 2400 years, or get in touch at all with them....even to say " Hi, we are cousins.....how are you?"

You falsify Jewish history and who the Jewish people are as much as the "cousins" of the Jews do.

 

[Shusha]

One Would Be a State, the Other a Missile Base

Yellow Jews meekly marching to another Holocaust.

Not convinced. If Palestine missile base is anything thing like Gaza missile base (and it will be) --- BRING IT!

 

[rylah]

The assumption of the second argument (exposure of the Arab Palestinian goal), imo, is that once there is a peace agreement and sovereignty for everyone -- the Arab Palestinians will lose international support if they dick with it. I'm sure they are going to. And yes, that probably means war. But hopefully, the international community will slap the Arab Palestinians silly for making war as a sovereign state upon another sovereign state.

Difficult not to be skeptical, and again it undermines our own responsibility and status.
"International community" usually means western forums, this is not the correct framework.

Why do we even consider this as a solution to sign formally, if we know for certain it leads us and our allies to war?
Looks like giving up to the mercy of racketeers and their PC.

Yep. I think her point is that Israel shouldn't be afraid of the demographics. But I think the problem of terrorism is big enough without the demographics in terms of democracy. Bigger.

The problem of terrorism is insufficient lexicon and confusion. Who said any formal agreement can solve tribalism? It will be solved, to a certain extent, once we install a firm relationship with clan leaders within the local Arab society, again takes time.

 

[rylah]

Everyone is used to talk about agreements, demanding them "NOW! or else",
I'm talking about developing a relationship looking further...which is exactly like most people in the middle east experience time.

But then again, the article shows I'm not representing the most common view among Israelis.

 

[theliq]

This is an excellent article on israellycool. I think this is accurate.

The reasons (paraphrased):

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.
2. Exposing the Arab narrative. An Arab Palestinian State should get the world off Israel's back. If they continue to try to disrupt or eliminate the State of Israel, their intent will be revealed for what it is. (Which should have been obvious with Gaza, but the world seems to have missed the message).
3. Resistance against annihilation. Two states, theoretically at least, will remove any legitimate reason for destruction of Israel (not that the destruction of a sovereign nation is in any way legitimate -- again the world seems to have missed the message.)
4. Right to self-determination. The entire point of the State of Israel was to ensure Jewish self-preservation and self-government. A one state solution denies this. (It also denies self-determination for the Arab Palestinians).
5. Prevention of collective punishment. A one state solution may have elements of collective punishment due to the incorporation of a hostile population -- either a demand for loyalty, a removal of anyone even remotely related to terrorism or the establishment of permanent residency for some people based on their culture.
6. Saving the lives of soldiers. Most terror attacks occur where soldiers are protecting Jewish people in disputed areas. A two state solution should end this.
7. We need a divorce. Arab and Jewish cultures are fundamentally incompatible (at least at this point in time).


Thoughts?

There are problems that the Palestinians themselves have created;
Israel offered them MOST of everything they wanted which they rejected. They don’t want the “ Two State Solution” Their goal is to eventually annex Israel to “ Palestine” by their becoming the majority. That will never happen

No I correct you,All the Palestinian problems were created by Synthetic NON JEWS,only Converts to Judaism.....Real Jews and Palestinians get on well,because they are cousins,both decendents from Abraham making only these two peoples Semitic Peoples......SOMETHING CONVERTS CAN NEVER BE as these ZIONIST CULT MEMBERS ARE riff raff mainly from central Asia...Fact,they have NO REASON TO BE IN PALESTINE

No: I correct you. There was Anti Hate long before 1948. Hebron is only ONE small example! They were from Central Asia? Palestinians do not have the right to be on JEWISH LAND !!!!

AND ZIONISTS COLLABORATED WITH HITLER,SENDING DECENT INNOCENT JEWS TO THEIR DEATHS...YOU AHOLE

You do not miss one opportunity to falsify history.

Annual 4 Chapter 17 - Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center

And NO. For the thousandth time......Jews and Arabs are not cousins.
Arabs do not get to suddenly become cousins to the Jewish people.
Islam and this idea of being cousins only came about when Islam was founded in order to borrow Abraham as their Patriarch.

It took 2400 years for any Arab to assume a relation to Abraham and the Jewish People?

What were they doing during all of those 2400 years?

Just when these did these Arab cousins come to help their relatives during any of those 2400 years, or get in touch at all with them....even to say " Hi, we are cousins.....how are you?"

You falsify Jewish history and who the Jewish people are as much as the "cousins" of the Jews do.

EVER HEARD OF CAIN AND ABLE.....anyway you fool,WHO ARE YOU TO SAY ANYTHING,CONSIDERING YOU ARE A CONVERT GYPO FROM ASIA,YOU ARE A FAKE<A SYNTHETIC WHO CALLS HERSELF A JEW>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO SPEAK ON THESE MATTERS,YOU SLOTH ON THE MORAL LOW GROUND,YOU NON SEMITIC.....ANTI-SEMITE

 

[theliq]

One Would Be a State, the Other a Missile Base

Yellow Jews meekly marching to another Holocaust.

Not convinced. If Palestine missile base is anything thing like Gaza missile base (and it will be) --- BRING IT!

EASY TO SAY SINCE YOU HAVE ILLEGAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS....

 

[Sixties Fan]

There are problems that the Palestinians themselves have created;
Israel offered them MOST of everything they wanted which they rejected. They don’t want the “ Two State Solution” Their goal is to eventually annex Israel to “ Palestine” by their becoming the majority. That will never happen

No I correct you,All the Palestinian problems were created by Synthetic NON JEWS,only Converts to Judaism.....Real Jews and Palestinians get on well,because they are cousins,both decendents from Abraham making only these two peoples Semitic Peoples......SOMETHING CONVERTS CAN NEVER BE as these ZIONIST CULT MEMBERS ARE riff raff mainly from central Asia...Fact,they have NO REASON TO BE IN PALESTINE

No: I correct you. There was Anti Hate long before 1948. Hebron is only ONE small example! They were from Central Asia? Palestinians do not have the right to be on JEWISH LAND !!!!

AND ZIONISTS COLLABORATED WITH HITLER,SENDING DECENT INNOCENT JEWS TO THEIR DEATHS...YOU AHOLE

You do not miss one opportunity to falsify history.

Annual 4 Chapter 17 - Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center

And NO. For the thousandth time......Jews and Arabs are not cousins.
Arabs do not get to suddenly become cousins to the Jewish people.
Islam and this idea of being cousins only came about when Islam was founded in order to borrow Abraham as their Patriarch.

It took 2400 years for any Arab to assume a relation to Abraham and the Jewish People?

What were they doing during all of those 2400 years?

Just when these did these Arab cousins come to help their relatives during any of those 2400 years, or get in touch at all with them....even to say " Hi, we are cousins.....how are you?"

You falsify Jewish history and who the Jewish people are as much as the "cousins" of the Jews do.

EVER HEARD OF CAIN AND ABLE.....anyway you fool,WHO ARE YOU TO SAY ANYTHING,CONSIDERING YOU ARE A CONVERT GYPO FROM ASIA,YOU ARE A FAKE<A SYNTHETIC WHO CALLS HERSELF A JEW>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO SPEAK ON THESE MATTERS,YOU SLOTH ON THE MORAL LOW GROUND,YOU NON SEMITIC.....ANTI-SEMITE

Aren't the converts from Europe?

ROTFLOL

 

[BulletProof]

1. Security. There is no safety in incorporating hostile populations into a single State.

And, yet, we don't kick out the Jews.

What's stopping Israel from recognizing a Palestinian state?