rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
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"Judea is not the land of Jews,What difference does it make?I do not believe the Palestinians (Phillistines) and the Jews have any common ancestry or DNA.I asked you for the links to where you got your genetic studies, twice. Where are they?
I missed that request, here are some links describing some studies, I don't you can claim they are biased or pro-arab:
Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots
This one is more recent and interiguing and is on sequencing the Canaanite genome and it's similarities to today's Lebanese (who genetically overlap with Palestinians). Living Descendants of Biblical Canaanites Identified Via DNA
Not genetic, but historically, Wikipedia has this to say: Palestinians - Wikipedia
While Palestinian culture is primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine.[138] According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."
Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:
"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[138]
George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:
"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[139]
American historian Bernard Lewis writes:
"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic."[140]
Here is one I linked to earlier in this thread, he is a Jewish Israeli scientist and his ideas are intriguing because he looks at cultural similarities:
Do the Palestinians have Jewish Roots?
Do the Palestinians have Jewish roots? The question may sound fanciful. But not only do many Jews and Palestinians share remarkably similar DNA, there are also numerous customs and even names that overlap.
Among those who have researched the topic is Tsvi Misinai, an Israeli businessman who writes and speaks extensively about the connection between the Palestinians and the Jews. He claims that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from Jews who remained in Israel after the destruction of Second Temple 2,000 years ago, but were forced to convert to Islam.
According to Misinai, the Hebrew ancestors of the Palestinians were rural mountain dwellers who were allowed to remain in the land in order to supply Rome with grain and olive oil.
While Misinai is an advocate of this theory, he’s not the only scholar or even political figure to claim a Jewish connection for the Palestinians. The first president of Israel, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi as well as former Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, wrote several books and articles on the subject.
What I don't understand is how you can claim that the Palestinians - a hodge podge of Muslims, Christians, Druze, are all descended soley from Arab conquerers. That would be a direct contradiction to the normal run of conquests historically - invaders invade, conquer, religious conversions occur either by choice or force, some settle and intermarry, the rest move on to new conquests leaving behind their culture, language, laws and of course taxation. You seem to be saying that everyone in the Palestine region, who is not Jewish, is entirely a descendent of invaders and your links supporting it seem not to say much about ancient history but more about what the modern rise of a Palestinian national identity which is a bit different and is a modern identity.
You keep asking the wrong questions. Questions designed, without your knowledge, to delegitimize Jewish History, genetics and everything else.
No, I don't think I am, nor do I think I am in any way delegitimizing Jewish history or genetics. Rather, I think that you, in the process...are deligitimizing the Palestinians. Is there room for only ONE history? ONE people? ONE narrative?
Something which never happened BEFORE the Jews managed to succeed in recreating their National Homeland.
You, if not others, are repeatedly told that the term "Palestinians" was never used before the Mandate for Palestine. It does not matter.
You, and others, are told that the only ones who actually used the term Palestine during the Mandate were the Jews who were building their infrastructure to create their State.
Palestine Post (Jerusalem Post)
Palestine Symphony (Israel Symphony), so on and so forth.
I really don't care what you say I am "repeatedly told" - that comes off as frankly arrogant and ignorant and has little to do with the ancient history of place and people there, but rather with the more modern history and semantics.
Muslims/Arabs did not use that term at all. Never cared for it.
Muslims wanted to be part of Syria, so that the whole region would be a PanArab Caliphate, once the Ottoman Empire resolved.
And that has what to do with the history and heritage of the people of that region?
Which is why some always fought about the creation of a sovereign Jewish State on the Jewish Ancient homeland.
We do NOT deny that there have been Arab Muslims and Christians living on the land since the 7th Century, or that the majority of Arab Muslims came to the Region sometimes called Palestine between the end of the 19th century and 1948.
No. You are more subtle then that. You deny them an existence prior to the 7th century and you deny them their heritage from the older people's of that region and worse, you claim the majority didn't even come until the end of the 19th century, a claim that is not well supported other than from the pro-Israeli narratives. In fact, the exact populations and immigrations are difficult to determine but it was certainly not an empty land.
They were NOT called Palestinians then. NO ONE was called a Palestinian back then, and the Palestinians you and others are now calling Palestinians as a nationality, only became one under the idea Arafat and the KGB had in Moscow in 1964.
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When it comes to the Arab narrative and the name "Palestine," and "Palestinians," there's more than enough "truth" that can be proven to be untrue. For example, if you ask what and where is "Palestine," virtually every enemy of Israel, including Mahmoud Abbas, will tell you it includes the entire land area which the rest of the world calls Israel.
In fact, "Palestine" refers to a coastal section of land in the area of today's Gaza Strip that was inhabited by the ancient Philistines who were not native to Israel or the region. Most scholars believe they migrated from Greece or Crete. The ancient Philistines were enemies of Israel. The biblical giant Goliath, whom King David slew, was a Philistine.
The name "Palestine" is from the Latin name "Philistia." It came to be known as such after the unsuccessful Jewish revolt led by Bar Kochba in 135 AD.
Then Roman Emperor Hadrian, in an effort to wipe out any symbols of Jewish presence, renamed the Kingdom of Judea Philistia He did this specifically to insult the Jews, since the Philistines were their enemies.
For the record, there isn’t, nor has there ever been a sovereign nation called Palestine.
Truth routinely sacrificed
As recently as the Six-Day War there were no specific people known as "Palestinians."
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?" He is referring to the day before and the day after the start of the Six-Day War.
So where does the name "Palestinian" come from? Many will tell you the champion of this remaking of the Arab image is the late Yasser Arafat. He founded the "Palestine" Liberation Organization PLO in 1964 and began using the term "Palestinian" in order to legitimize his effort to portray the "displaced" Arabs from the 1948 War of Independence as unique with an ethnicity and culture of their own. His effort was motivated by the intentional refusal of surrounding Arab countries to absorb them. It is these people who eventually became known as "Palestinian refugees."
Another reason for inventing the term is well described by then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein. In a 1977 interview, he said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
As recently as the Six-Day War there were no specific people known as "Palestinians."
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?" He is referring to the day before and the day after the start of the Six-Day War.
(full article online)
The truth about Palestine
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Some Arab Muslims will tell the truth.
But who is bothering to listen to them?
So? You are arguing NAMES, I am arguing PEOPLE. No one is denying that the advent of a Palestinian national identity is relatively recent. The people however, go back much further.
Though I don't suppose you will bother to listen to the Jewish scholars who point that out will you?
Why is it so important to you to dispossess the Palestinians?
The Philistines were the Sea Peoples that left the Trojan War to pillage ancient Egypt and the Levant.
They are neither Jews nor Semitic.
They are ancient Greek and therefore Indo-European/Aryan.
Arabia is not the land of Arabs."
What difference does it make that You call red blue, and blue red?
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