The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

Who are the indiginous people(s) of the Palestine region?


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I asked you for the links to where you got your genetic studies, twice. Where are they?

I missed that request, here are some links describing some studies, I don't you can claim they are biased or pro-arab:

Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots

This one is more recent and interiguing and is on sequencing the Canaanite genome and it's similarities to today's Lebanese (who genetically overlap with Palestinians). Living Descendants of Biblical Canaanites Identified Via DNA

Not genetic, but historically, Wikipedia has this to say: Palestinians - Wikipedia

While Palestinian culture is primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine.[138] According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."

Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[138]

George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[139]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic."[140]


Here is one I linked to earlier in this thread, he is a Jewish Israeli scientist and his ideas are intriguing because he looks at cultural similarities:
Do the Palestinians have Jewish Roots?
Do the Palestinians have Jewish roots? The question may sound fanciful. But not only do many Jews and Palestinians share remarkably similar DNA, there are also numerous customs and even names that overlap.

Among those who have researched the topic is Tsvi Misinai, an Israeli businessman who writes and speaks extensively about the connection between the Palestinians and the Jews. He claims that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from Jews who remained in Israel after the destruction of Second Temple 2,000 years ago, but were forced to convert to Islam.


According to Misinai, the Hebrew ancestors of the Palestinians were rural mountain dwellers who were allowed to remain in the land in order to supply Rome with grain and olive oil.


While Misinai is an advocate of this theory, he’s not the only scholar or even political figure to claim a Jewish connection for the Palestinians. The first president of Israel, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi as well as former Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, wrote several books and articles on the subject.

What I don't understand is how you can claim that the Palestinians - a hodge podge of Muslims, Christians, Druze, are all descended soley from Arab conquerers. That would be a direct contradiction to the normal run of conquests historically - invaders invade, conquer, religious conversions occur either by choice or force, some settle and intermarry, the rest move on to new conquests leaving behind their culture, language, laws and of course taxation. You seem to be saying that everyone in the Palestine region, who is not Jewish, is entirely a descendent of invaders and your links supporting it seem not to say much about ancient history but more about what the modern rise of a Palestinian national identity which is a bit different and is a modern identity.

You keep asking the wrong questions. Questions designed, without your knowledge, to delegitimize Jewish History, genetics and everything else.

No, I don't think I am, nor do I think I am in any way delegitimizing Jewish history or genetics. Rather, I think that you, in the process...are deligitimizing the Palestinians. Is there room for only ONE history? ONE people? ONE narrative?

Something which never happened BEFORE the Jews managed to succeed in recreating their National Homeland.

You, if not others, are repeatedly told that the term "Palestinians" was never used before the Mandate for Palestine. It does not matter.

You, and others, are told that the only ones who actually used the term Palestine during the Mandate were the Jews who were building their infrastructure to create their State.
Palestine Post (Jerusalem Post)
Palestine Symphony (Israel Symphony), so on and so forth.

I really don't care what you say I am "repeatedly told" - that comes off as frankly arrogant and ignorant and has little to do with the ancient history of place and people there, but rather with the more modern history and semantics.

Muslims/Arabs did not use that term at all. Never cared for it.
Muslims wanted to be part of Syria, so that the whole region would be a PanArab Caliphate, once the Ottoman Empire resolved.

And that has what to do with the history and heritage of the people of that region?

Which is why some always fought about the creation of a sovereign Jewish State on the Jewish Ancient homeland.

We do NOT deny that there have been Arab Muslims and Christians living on the land since the 7th Century, or that the majority of Arab Muslims came to the Region sometimes called Palestine between the end of the 19th century and 1948.

No. You are more subtle then that. You deny them an existence prior to the 7th century and you deny them their heritage from the older people's of that region and worse, you claim the majority didn't even come until the end of the 19th century, a claim that is not well supported other than from the pro-Israeli narratives. In fact, the exact populations and immigrations are difficult to determine but it was certainly not an empty land.

They were NOT called Palestinians then. NO ONE was called a Palestinian back then, and the Palestinians you and others are now calling Palestinians as a nationality, only became one under the idea Arafat and the KGB had in Moscow in 1964.
-----------------------------------

When it comes to the Arab narrative and the name "Palestine," and "Palestinians," there's more than enough "truth" that can be proven to be untrue. For example, if you ask what and where is "Palestine," virtually every enemy of Israel, including Mahmoud Abbas, will tell you it includes the entire land area which the rest of the world calls Israel.

  • In fact, "Palestine" refers to a coastal section of land in the area of today's Gaza Strip that was inhabited by the ancient Philistines who were not native to Israel or the region. Most scholars believe they migrated from Greece or Crete. The ancient Philistines were enemies of Israel. The biblical giant Goliath, whom King David slew, was a Philistine.


    The name "Palestine" is from the Latin name "Philistia." It came to be known as such after the unsuccessful Jewish revolt led by Bar Kochba in 135 AD.



    Then Roman Emperor Hadrian, in an effort to wipe out any symbols of Jewish presence, renamed the Kingdom of Judea Philistia He did this specifically to insult the Jews, since the Philistines were their enemies.

    For the record, there isn’t, nor has there ever been a sovereign nation called Palestine.

    Truth routinely sacrificed
    As recently as the Six-Day War there were no specific people known as "Palestinians."


    Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?" He is referring to the day before and the day after the start of the Six-Day War.

    So where does the name "Palestinian" come from? Many will tell you the champion of this remaking of the Arab image is the late Yasser Arafat. He founded the "Palestine" Liberation Organization PLO in 1964 and began using the term "Palestinian" in order to legitimize his effort to portray the "displaced" Arabs from the 1948 War of Independence as unique with an ethnicity and culture of their own. His effort was motivated by the intentional refusal of surrounding Arab countries to absorb them. It is these people who eventually became known as "Palestinian refugees."


    Another reason for inventing the term is well described by then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein. In a 1977 interview, he said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”

As recently as the Six-Day War there were no specific people known as "Palestinians."

Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?" He is referring to the day before and the day after the start of the Six-Day War.

(full article online)

The truth about Palestine

-------------------
Some Arab Muslims will tell the truth.
But who is bothering to listen to them?

So? You are arguing NAMES, I am arguing PEOPLE. No one is denying that the advent of a Palestinian national identity is relatively recent. The people however, go back much further.

Though I don't suppose you will bother to listen to the Jewish scholars who point that out will you?



Why is it so important to you to dispossess the Palestinians?
I do not believe the Palestinians (Phillistines) and the Jews have any common ancestry or DNA.

The Philistines were the Sea Peoples that left the Trojan War to pillage ancient Egypt and the Levant.

They are neither Jews nor Semitic.

They are ancient Greek and therefore Indo-European/Aryan.
What difference does it make?
"Judea is not the land of Jews,
Arabia is not the land of Arabs."

What difference does it make that You call red blue, and blue red?
 
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Really, which tribe?

American

Really ,so it were the Indigenous Native tribes that decided to rename their land into "America"?
What does the word mean in Indian?

This is funny how for Arabs to become indigenous people of Israel, whole histories of nations have to be rewritten just to fit the double standard and support the expansion of an Arabian empire.

I guess now we know why Arabs helped British invasion of the land...they were the middle eastern Americans, who inherited their indigenous status the same way British did in Americas.;)
 
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Really, which tribe?

American

Really ,so it were the Indigenous Native tribes that decided to rename their land into "America"?
What does the word mean in Indian?

Yeah ... They lived in this land they decided to name the United States of America.

One was an Indian ... A grandmother that lived in a teepee with a grandfather outside of Jamestown.
She was an American too.

.
 
Really, which tribe?

American

Really ,so it were the Indigenous Native tribes that decided to rename their land into "America"?
What does the word mean in Indian?

Yeah ... They lived in this land they decided to name the United States of America.

One was an Indian ... A grandmother that lived in a teepee with a grandfather outside of Jamestown.
She was an American too.

.

So the Indians decide to name it USA? :disbelief:
Really what is the meaning of the word in the language of the indigenous people?
 
So the Indians decide to name it USA? :disbelief:
Really what is the meaning of the word in the language of the indigenous people?

I can see why this is confusing to you ... :thup:

You have some misconception as to a particular point in time you want to suggest someone decided to walk across a land and call it theirs.
What is the cutoff date you would like to apply for your specific handicapping requirements?

I was born here, my parent's parents were born here, their parents were born here, whose parents were born here to even more parents who were born here ...
And so on for centuries ... I am native to this land, wasn't born anywhere else ... I am not a native of anywhere else.

Now if you want to suggest that isn't true because you would like to apply some point in time where my ancestors spawned out of the primordial sludge ...
And walked across some other place ... Be specific as to what date someone has to be somewhere to meet your silly requirements.

Or, to a different extent ... What level of inbreeding is required to consider someone indigenous ... :21:

.​
 
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So the Indians decide to name it USA? :disbelief:
Really what is the meaning of the word in the language of the indigenous people?

I can see why this is confusing to you ... :thup:

You have some misconception as to a particular point in time you want to suggest someone decided to walk across a land and call it theirs.
What is the cutoff date you would like to apply for your specific handicapping requirements?

I was born here, my parent's parents were born here, their parents were born here, whose parents were born here to even more parents who were born here ...
And so on for centuries ... I am native to this land, wasn't born anywhere else ... I am not a native of anywhere else.

Now if you want to suggest that isn't true because you would like to apply some point in time where my ancestors spawned out of the primordial sludge ...
And walked across some other place ... Be specific as to what date someone has to be somewhere to meet your silly requirements.

Or, to a different extent ... What level of inbreeding is required to consider someone indigenous ... :21:

.​

No cutoff date.

A Jew is indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.
Vast majority of US citizens are not native Americans, but somehow You try to change the obvious.

Its all pretty easy and in Your face., couldn't be more in Your face - and that's why I say that without all the mental choreography and rewriting of terms and history- Your bs holds no ground.
 
No cutoff date.

A Jew is indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.
Vast majority of US citizens are not native Americans, but somehow You try to change the obvious.

Its all pretty easy and in Your face., couldn't be more in Your face - and that's why I say that without all the mental choreography and rewriting of terms and history- Your bs holds no ground.

You pronounce a bunch convenient stipulations that support some silly idea you have as to the origin of man to suit your desired prejudices.
And refer to the fact we all came from somewhere as "bs" ... You are one silly little nutcase.

If you think you can take the ground I am holding ... Go pound sand nit-wit ... :thup:

.
 
No cutoff date.

A Jew is indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.
Vast majority of US citizens are not native Americans, but somehow You try to change the obvious.

Its all pretty easy and in Your face., couldn't be more in Your face - and that's why I say that without all the mental choreography and rewriting of terms and history- Your bs holds no ground.

You pronounce a bunch convenient stipulations that support some silly idea you have as to the origin of man to suit your desired prejudices.
And refer to the fact we all came from somewhere as "bs" ... You are one silly little nutcase.

If you think you can take the ground I am holding ... Go pound sand nit-wit ... :thup:

.

Still claiming Obama, Hilary and Roosvelt are indigenous to Milwaukee?

I'm sorry to burst Your pc bubble,
just wonder what happens when African Americans grow into bigger numbers than Indians, does it make Farakhan and his buddies into indigenous Americans overnight?
 
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No cutoff date.

A Jew is indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.
Vast majority of US citizens are not native Americans, but somehow You try to change the obvious.

Its all pretty easy and in Your face., couldn't be more in Your face - and that's why I say that without all the mental choreography and rewriting of terms and history- Your bs holds no ground.

You pronounce a bunch convenient stipulations that support some silly idea you have as to the origin of man to suit your desired prejudices.
And refer to the fact we all came from somewhere as "bs" ... You are one silly little nutcase.

If you think you can take the ground I am holding ... Go pound sand nit-wit ... :thup:

.


Bottom line--are you Native American/ American Indian?
 
I asked you for the links to where you got your genetic studies, twice. Where are they?

I missed that request, here are some links describing some studies, I don't you can claim they are biased or pro-arab:

Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots

This one is more recent and interiguing and is on sequencing the Canaanite genome and it's similarities to today's Lebanese (who genetically overlap with Palestinians). Living Descendants of Biblical Canaanites Identified Via DNA

Not genetic, but historically, Wikipedia has this to say: Palestinians - Wikipedia

While Palestinian culture is primarily Arab and Islamic, many Palestinians identify with earlier civilizations that inhabited the land of Palestine.[138] According to Walid Khalidi, in Ottoman times "the Palestinians considered themselves to be descended not only from Arab conquerors of the seventh century but also from indigenous peoples who had lived in the country since time immemorial."

Similarly Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, argues:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabataeans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and Western European Crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and the Mongol raids of the late 1200s, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[138]

George Antonius, founder of modern Arab nationalist history, wrote in his seminal 1938 book The Arab Awakening:

"The Arabs' connection with Palestine goes back uninterruptedly to the earliest historic times, for the term 'Arab' [in Palestine] denotes nowadays not merely the incomers from the Arabian Peninsula who occupied the country in the seventh century, but also the older populations who intermarried with their conquerors, acquired their speech, customs and ways of thought and became permanently arabised."[139]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine, where the population was transformed by such events as the Jewish rebellion against Rome and its suppression, the Arab conquest, the coming and going of the Crusaders, the devastation and resettlement of the coastlands by the Mamluk and Turkish regimes, and, from the nineteenth century, by extensive migrations from both within and from outside the region. Through invasion and deportation, and successive changes of rule and of culture, the face of the Palestinian population changed several times. No doubt, the original inhabitants were never entirely obliterated, but in the course of time they were successively Judaized, Christianized, and Islamized. Their language was transformed to Hebrew, then to Aramaic, then to Arabic."[140]


Here is one I linked to earlier in this thread, he is a Jewish Israeli scientist and his ideas are intriguing because he looks at cultural similarities:
Do the Palestinians have Jewish Roots?
Do the Palestinians have Jewish roots? The question may sound fanciful. But not only do many Jews and Palestinians share remarkably similar DNA, there are also numerous customs and even names that overlap.

Among those who have researched the topic is Tsvi Misinai, an Israeli businessman who writes and speaks extensively about the connection between the Palestinians and the Jews. He claims that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from Jews who remained in Israel after the destruction of Second Temple 2,000 years ago, but were forced to convert to Islam.


According to Misinai, the Hebrew ancestors of the Palestinians were rural mountain dwellers who were allowed to remain in the land in order to supply Rome with grain and olive oil.


While Misinai is an advocate of this theory, he’s not the only scholar or even political figure to claim a Jewish connection for the Palestinians. The first president of Israel, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi as well as former Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, wrote several books and articles on the subject.

What I don't understand is how you can claim that the Palestinians - a hodge podge of Muslims, Christians, Druze, are all descended soley from Arab conquerers. That would be a direct contradiction to the normal run of conquests historically - invaders invade, conquer, religious conversions occur either by choice or force, some settle and intermarry, the rest move on to new conquests leaving behind their culture, language, laws and of course taxation. You seem to be saying that everyone in the Palestine region, who is not Jewish, is entirely a descendent of invaders and your links supporting it seem not to say much about ancient history but more about what the modern rise of a Palestinian national identity which is a bit different and is a modern identity.

You keep asking the wrong questions. Questions designed, without your knowledge, to delegitimize Jewish History, genetics and everything else.

No, I don't think I am, nor do I think I am in any way delegitimizing Jewish history or genetics. Rather, I think that you, in the process...are deligitimizing the Palestinians. Is there room for only ONE history? ONE people? ONE narrative?

Something which never happened BEFORE the Jews managed to succeed in recreating their National Homeland.

You, if not others, are repeatedly told that the term "Palestinians" was never used before the Mandate for Palestine. It does not matter.

You, and others, are told that the only ones who actually used the term Palestine during the Mandate were the Jews who were building their infrastructure to create their State.
Palestine Post (Jerusalem Post)
Palestine Symphony (Israel Symphony), so on and so forth.

I really don't care what you say I am "repeatedly told" - that comes off as frankly arrogant and ignorant and has little to do with the ancient history of place and people there, but rather with the more modern history and semantics.

Muslims/Arabs did not use that term at all. Never cared for it.
Muslims wanted to be part of Syria, so that the whole region would be a PanArab Caliphate, once the Ottoman Empire resolved.

And that has what to do with the history and heritage of the people of that region?

Which is why some always fought about the creation of a sovereign Jewish State on the Jewish Ancient homeland.

We do NOT deny that there have been Arab Muslims and Christians living on the land since the 7th Century, or that the majority of Arab Muslims came to the Region sometimes called Palestine between the end of the 19th century and 1948.

No. You are more subtle then that. You deny them an existence prior to the 7th century and you deny them their heritage from the older people's of that region and worse, you claim the majority didn't even come until the end of the 19th century, a claim that is not well supported other than from the pro-Israeli narratives. In fact, the exact populations and immigrations are difficult to determine but it was certainly not an empty land.

They were NOT called Palestinians then. NO ONE was called a Palestinian back then, and the Palestinians you and others are now calling Palestinians as a nationality, only became one under the idea Arafat and the KGB had in Moscow in 1964.
-----------------------------------

When it comes to the Arab narrative and the name "Palestine," and "Palestinians," there's more than enough "truth" that can be proven to be untrue. For example, if you ask what and where is "Palestine," virtually every enemy of Israel, including Mahmoud Abbas, will tell you it includes the entire land area which the rest of the world calls Israel.

  • In fact, "Palestine" refers to a coastal section of land in the area of today's Gaza Strip that was inhabited by the ancient Philistines who were not native to Israel or the region. Most scholars believe they migrated from Greece or Crete. The ancient Philistines were enemies of Israel. The biblical giant Goliath, whom King David slew, was a Philistine.


    The name "Palestine" is from the Latin name "Philistia." It came to be known as such after the unsuccessful Jewish revolt led by Bar Kochba in 135 AD.



    Then Roman Emperor Hadrian, in an effort to wipe out any symbols of Jewish presence, renamed the Kingdom of Judea Philistia He did this specifically to insult the Jews, since the Philistines were their enemies.

    For the record, there isn’t, nor has there ever been a sovereign nation called Palestine.

    Truth routinely sacrificed
    As recently as the Six-Day War there were no specific people known as "Palestinians."


    Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?" He is referring to the day before and the day after the start of the Six-Day War.

    So where does the name "Palestinian" come from? Many will tell you the champion of this remaking of the Arab image is the late Yasser Arafat. He founded the "Palestine" Liberation Organization PLO in 1964 and began using the term "Palestinian" in order to legitimize his effort to portray the "displaced" Arabs from the 1948 War of Independence as unique with an ethnicity and culture of their own. His effort was motivated by the intentional refusal of surrounding Arab countries to absorb them. It is these people who eventually became known as "Palestinian refugees."


    Another reason for inventing the term is well described by then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein. In a 1977 interview, he said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”

As recently as the Six-Day War there were no specific people known as "Palestinians."

Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?" He is referring to the day before and the day after the start of the Six-Day War.

(full article online)

The truth about Palestine

-------------------
Some Arab Muslims will tell the truth.
But who is bothering to listen to them?

So? You are arguing NAMES, I am arguing PEOPLE. No one is denying that the advent of a Palestinian national identity is relatively recent. The people however, go back much further.

Though I don't suppose you will bother to listen to the Jewish scholars who point that out will you?



Why is it so important to you to dispossess the Palestinians?
Excellent post. :113::113::113:

As I have posted before, Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times over the centuries. Many people have come and gone. However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. Those are the people who became Palestinians after WWI.

When people call the Palestinians Arabs it is like...no that is not true. It can't be true. History tells us something different.
They are Arabs in a broad sense that takes in all the people who were Arabitized
 
Still claiming Obama, Hilary and Roosvelt are indigenous to Milwaukee?

I'm sorry to burst Your pc bubble,
just wonder what happens when African Americans grow into bigger numbers than Indians, does it make Farakhan and his buddies into indigenous Americans overnight?

You tell me ... :dunno:

You're the one that seems to be hung up over the exactly how you want to identify your specific handicapping system.
I am simply pointing out where you are handicapped ... Probably the result of inbreeding.

.
 
Lll...
So the Indians decide to name it USA? :disbelief:
Really what is the meaning of the word in the language of the indigenous people?

I can see why this is confusing to you ... :thup:

You have some misconception as to a particular point in time you want to suggest someone decided to walk across a land and call it theirs.
What is the cutoff date you would like to apply for your specific handicapping requirements?

I was born here, my parent's parents were born here, their parents were born here, whose parents were born here to even more parents who were born here ...
And so on for centuries ... I am native to this land, wasn't born anywhere else ... I am not a native of anywhere else.

Now if you want to suggest that isn't true because you would like to apply some point in time where my ancestors spawned out of the primordial sludge ...
And walked across some other place ... Be specific as to what date someone has to be somewhere to meet your silly requirements.

Or, to a different extent ... What level of inbreeding is required to consider someone indigenous ... :21:

.​

No cutoff date.

A Jew is indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.
Vast majority of US citizens are not native Americans, but somehow You try to change the obvious.

Its all pretty easy and in Your face., couldn't be more in Your face - and that's why I say that without all the mental choreography and rewriting of terms and history- Your bs holds no ground.

Then the term Arab is clearly misused, at least by you.
 
No cutoff date.

A Jew is indigenous to Judea, Arabs to Arabia.
Vast majority of US citizens are not native Americans, but somehow You try to change the obvious.

Its all pretty easy and in Your face., couldn't be more in Your face - and that's why I say that without all the mental choreography and rewriting of terms and history- Your bs holds no ground.

You pronounce a bunch convenient stipulations that support some silly idea you have as to the origin of man to suit your desired prejudices.
And refer to the fact we all came from somewhere as "bs" ... You are one silly little nutcase.

If you think you can take the ground I am holding ... Go pound sand nit-wit ... :thup:

.


Bottom line--are you Native American/ American Indian?
Native Americans is used in two ways.

To denote the 500 First Nations which lived on the land before 1620s, and to denote people who are born in the USA.

Native Americans should truly be used for the Indigenous First Nations of the USA, but habit, because Europeans and Asian people have been born on the land since that time, has created the term as to mean BORN IN THE USA, like Springsteen's song.

There are First Nations which will use the term First Nations, because they were the first ones, and other tribes will use Native Americans.

As long as those who came after 1620 realize that Native Americans for them does not mean that they are the Indigenous People of the land, and clarify that they do not belong to one of the First Nations, I would guess that there is no other term that could be used.

On any form in the USA, asking what Race etc, people are, Native Americans refers to any of the 500 First Nations, and not to those who came from Europe or Asia post 1620 and were born either under the British control of the land, or post 1776 when it became America (named after Amerigo Vespucci )
 
Still claiming Obama, Hilary and Roosvelt are indigenous to Milwaukee?

I'm sorry to burst Your pc bubble,
just wonder what happens when African Americans grow into bigger numbers than Indians, does it make Farakhan and his buddies into indigenous Americans overnight?

You tell me ... :dunno:

You're the one that seems to be hung up over the exactly how you want to identify your specific handicapping system.
I am imply pointing out where you are handicapped ... Probably the result of inbreeding.

.

Where am I handicapped?

My tribal heritage is not based on creating new identities ,and claiming I'm something I'm not.
The land bears my name, world history is a record of my connection to that land - not the Arab connection. Even the word Palestine doesn't even have a meaning in Arabic, even in this Jews are the only ones who can explain the origin of the word, while Arabs are clueless.

Exactly like the average American can't tell me what Milwaukee means in the local language without an Indian having to explain that for him.
 
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Where am I handicapped?

My tribal heritage is not based on creating new identities ,and claiming I'm something I'm not.
The land bears my name, world history is a record of my connection to that land - not the Arab connection. Even the word Palestine doesn't even have a meaning in Arabic, even in this Jews are the only ones who can explain the origin of the word.

You are handicapped in a sense that you assume anyone anywhere today didn't have ancestors that travelled from somewhere else.
If it is necessary for you to make a determination as to when exactly someone's ancestors were somewhere ... Then do so.

At least Sixties Fan was able to identify how they desire to handicap their interpretations.

I also indicated that if you have some kind of problem with the heritage or ancestry of another ... That's your problem.
I in turn suggested that problem could be associated with your heritage ...
And how closely you, or anyone for that matter want(s) to use the degree to which you or anyone are/is inbred as a valued determining factor.



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Where am I handicapped?

My tribal heritage is not based on creating new identities ,and claiming I'm something I'm not.
The land bears my name, world history is a record of my connection to that land - not the Arab connection. Even the word Palestine doesn't even have a meaning in Arabic, even in this Jews are the only ones who can explain the origin of the word.

You are handicapped in a sense that you assume anyone anywhere today didn't have ancestors that travelled from somewhere else.
If it is necessary for to make a determination as to when exactly someone was somewhere ... Then do so.

At least Sixties Fan was able to identify how they desire to handicap their interpretations.

I also indicated that if you have some kind of problem with the heritage or ancestry of another ... That's your problem.
I in turn suggested the problem could be associated with your heritage ...
And how closely you, or anyone for that matter want(s) to use the degree to which you or anyone are/is inbred as a valued determining factor.



.

Another attempt to blame me for Your failure to rewrite history and reverse the meaning of words.

So are You still calming Hillary is an Indigenous Native American?
 
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Where am I handicapped?

My tribal heritage is not based on creating new identities ,and claiming I'm something I'm not.
The land bears my name, world history is a record of my connection to that land - not the Arab connection. Even the word Palestine doesn't even have a meaning in Arabic, even in this Jews are the only ones who can explain the origin of the word.

You are handicapped in a sense that you assume anyone anywhere today didn't have ancestors that travelled from somewhere else.
If it is necessary for you to make a determination as to when exactly someone's ancestors were somewhere ... Then do so.

At least Sixties Fan was able to identify how they desire to handicap their interpretations.

I also indicated that if you have some kind of problem with the heritage or ancestry of another ... That's your problem.
I in turn suggested that problem could be associated with your heritage ...
And how closely you, or anyone for that matter want(s) to use the degree to which you or anyone are/is inbred as a valued determining factor.



.
Wow, what an amazing bit of nothing, which says nothing and means absolutely nothing.

Maybe you did not understand my explanation of Native American, as you seem to not understand the meaning of Indigenous people of Ancient Canaan, as opposed to indigenous people of the Arabian Peninsula, or indigenous people of Egyptian Ancestry (that would be the Copts), or the indigenous people of Morocco (that would be the Berbers).

The Copts, the Berbers, the Assyrians, the Yazidis, the Kurds, and all other indigenous people of the land who lived on the land before the invading Arabs came along, do not have AT ALL the problem of the Arab Muslims attempting to say that they are the indigenous people of those lands, anymore than Europeans are attempting to say that they are the indigenous people of the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, and others in the New world.

But.......ask yourself .......why is it that some Arab Muslims and Christians from Arabia are so intent in obliterating the indigenous identity of the Jewish People to their ancient homeland, when they ( The Arabs) , nor any other People (like the Ottoman Turks for 500 years of Ottoman conquest of that land ) have done it, EVER, to any other indigenous people anywhere on the Planet?

And still, to this day, no other Indigenous people on the planet is having to deal with those who once conquered their land attempting to obliterate that identity in order to take that land back.
 
"People of various religions, who's ancestors have lived there for hundreds of years"

The question isn't that hard to answer ...
What you want to do with the answer may be a little more difficult.



Ooops ...
Pineapple

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So I guess that the majority of US citizens living in America "of various religions, who's ancestors have lived there for hundreds of years" are the indigenous people?

Funny after 500 years they don't even call themselves 'natives', everyone knows who are Native Indigenous Americans,.

With Jews in Judea this question all of a sudden becomes 'hard to answer' for many people....
It is not hard to answer as she pointed out. Both Jews and Palestinians are indiginous along with other groups.

Why does recognizing that cause such angst to some that they have to invent narratives to marginalize them? Why is it so important to insist they are just Europeans or that they are just descendants of Arab invaders? It is like there can only be One indiginous group.

It a simple answer.

Jewish indigenity is not based on creation of any new identity or narrative, or on denying Arabs their rights based on longstanding presence in the land.
While Palestinian narrative is a creation of a new entity, entirely based on denial of Jewish indigenous rights, and appropriation of other people's history.

One can see this in the use of the term Palestinian, which is used exclusively to refer to Arabs and exclude Jews. So let's call Arabs Arabs and Jews Jews as they do themselves.
Because frankly, You'll find more agreement when calling things as they are, rather than creating new identities for people that don't know what THE WORD even means.

It is not simple matter because both sides are using identity to marginalize the other’s rights.


In both cases the argument has one main objective: de legitimize the other, their history, their ties to a bit of land. And it goes hand in hand with there can only be one rightful people. That is clearly seen in Sixtie’s postings as well as in Monte’s repetive cut’n’paste jumbles, to point out two extremes.

There are two factors at play. The people themselves and the idea of a national identity and the arguments are mixed into each other when they ought to be seperate.

Who are the people? One side would insist that they are mostly descendendents of Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula. That is only partially in that they certainly would include some of those people as they include people’s from the many prior waves of conquest and the indiginous peoples who were there already. Cultures change, languages change, religion changes. And this has been observed in many other regions that have seen either conquest or the mass migrations of many peoples. The Arab conquests had similarities to the Romans, invade set up a government and taxation, and move to the next goal, with very little mixing with native populations st least until they ran out of soldiers.

Wether one likes it or not genetic studies are a good way showing the interrelationships of ancient peoples where we simply lack sufficient information, but unfortunately, they’ve become tainted by those who attempt to misuse them to disenfranchise a group’s rights. They do however show extremely close relatedness among a variety of groups in the region.

The other part is political and national identity. So what if their national identity is relatively recent? So is the idea of a Jewish notational identity. It shouldn’t have any effect on the origins and history of the peoples themselves.
 
Blah-Blah-Blah ...

And still, to this day, no other Indigenous people on the planet is having to deal with those who once conquered their land attempting to obliterate that identity in order to take that land back.

I think this part is the best part of your comments to address ...

It seems as though you have problems understanding the idea I don't give a damn who you want to say is indigenous to where.
We all come from ancestors that roamed all over the planet at one point or another in search of food and more hospitable climates.

The land belongs to whomever the heck can hold it under the conditions of which they can manage to keep other people from claiming it.
Those conditions can range anywhere from legal contracts recognized by others ... To blowing someone's head off if they try to take it from you.

The problem with the claims of who is what in what they want to call Palestine ...
Is the result of people who want to believe the fact they have been conquered doesn't matter ...
And they can get nit-wits to argue about their heritage to support that fantasy ...

That's probably the case because they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it back any other way.

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