The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Hollie]

Perhaps the article I read was incorrect. However, I don't recall seeing any restrictions on Jewish citizens of Palestine.

Neither do I. There doesn't seem to be any. Your point would be that since there are no legal restrictions on Jews in Palestine, there is no apartheid in Palestine, yes? We would agree, in principle, that a government which does not legally restrict the rights of citizens by ethnicity (race) can not be considered apartheid, yes?

(Btw, it seems to be quite unusual, recently, for law to be written in such a way as to identify a specific ethnic group. Law-writers appear to want to avoid that little trap. I've found a couple. (Jordan. Iran.) But Israel, Palestine and even Hamas have largely attempted to purge that from their language. Instead they refer to the "enemy" and to citizens or residents of various States.)

Indeed, Israel has a structure of discrimination in its laws, customs, and practices. They can be found here:

UN ESCWA report on Israeli apartheid | Palestine Liberation Organization | West Bank

And here:
Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel

Indeed, it is funny when you folks arrempt to use ESCWA, an affiliation of fascist Islamist backwaters, to whine about minority rights.

ESCWA comprises 18 Arab countries:Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, the State of Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Indeed, please cut and paste more YouTube videos to tell us about human rights in your Islamist paradises of the Sudan and Yemen.

Indeed, you can trot out Richard Falk who might want to lecture on human rights in some invented place called the “State of Pal’istan”.

 

[Hollie]

I'm so interested in Your legal opinions...
Hamas says : "We'll rip out the hearts of every Jew on our way". And the rioters shout "Let's go kill Jews and die together!"

Q.Would that medic treat Jews after her people rip out their hearts?

What is worse?

1. someone who says they're going to kill you?
2. someone who kills you?

What’s worse is you folks who find justification for killing in your Korans and worship of a 7th century Arab warlord as a model for all of humanity.

 

[rylah]

I'm so interested in Your legal opinions...
Hamas says : "We'll rip out the hearts of every Jew on our way". And the rioters shout "Let's go kill Jews and die together!"

Q.Would that medic treat Jews after her people rip out their hearts?

What is worse?

1. someone who says they're going to kill you?
2. someone who kills you?

Worse is to stick Your head in the sand when Jihadi maniacs are coming for Your family.
Worse is a mother who straps explosives on her son belly and teaches that "honor" is when You die attempting to murder Jews.

Are You ever planning to discuss the topic at hand?

 

[rylah]

The only outrage there can be is at Your dishonesty, double standards and compulsive picking at Israel.

I can be critical of my government, you can't do the same. The biggest problem with Israeli society, is you remain silent while atrocities are constantly committed in your name. Americans, on the other hand, speak out when we see injustice.

You guys dismiss teachers for atrocities such as calling boys" boys" and girls "girls".
Toilet paper has more validity than Your moral judgment.

And btw, if You have no idea about the topic, You should give some respect to those who do want to discuss the subject, and stop derailing every thread to the same pretentious bs.

 

[rylah]

The oldest family in the world

"The Guinness Book of Records has also accepted the Luries as the oldest-known living family in the world today, citing them in the “longest lineage” category in its 1999 edition. "

 

[Billo_Really]

Worse is to stick Your head in the sand when Jihadi maniacs are coming for Your family.
Worse is a mother who straps explosives on her son belly and teaches that "honor" is when You die attempting to murder Jews.

Are You ever planning to discuss the topic at hand?

Just answer the fucking question, asshole!

 

[rylah]

Peki'in - the village where Jewish families from the Second Temple period have survived to this day

The site of Peki'in is ancient: a stalactite cave that was used for burial in the Chalcolithic period (end of the 4th millennium BCE) was discovered in the site of Peki'in in 1995. Pottery ossuaries, jars and remains of bones were found in the cave.

In Peki'in, the continuity of Jewish life from the time of the Second Temple to the present day was preserved.

Peki'in is located in the central Upper Galilee, not far from Ma'alot. In the Talmud the place was called Tekoa, Pekka, Haka. In the Zohar it is called Peki'in, and it seems that the Arabic version of the name of the place, al-bakiya, is an Arabic translation of the Hebrew name Peki'in. It is assumed that the name Peqi'in was interpreted as "valley between mountains".

Today, Peqi'in has about 5,000 residents, 70% of them Druze, 28% Christians, 2% Muslims and one Jewish woman, Margalit Zinati. The village has a Khulwa (a Druze religious place), a Greek Catholic church, an Orthodox Greek church and an ancient synagogue. Near the village there are ancient tombs that according to tradition are buried by Rabbi Yehoshua ben Hananiah and Rabbi Yosi Dapkein.

The Second Temple period (538 BCE - 70 S.) and the Roman and Christian-Byzantine periods (70 - 640)

The beginning of the Jewish settlement of Peqi'in was during the Second Temple period. Throughout the period there was an important settlement in the Galilee. Josephus Flavius mentioned the village of Beka in his book "The Wars of the Jews." After the destruction of the Second Temple, the priestly families of Jerusalem came to the Galilee and Rabbi Yosef and a number of families from Jerusalem settled in Peki'in. During the Bar Kokhba Revolt (132-135 CE) they hid, according to Jewish sources (the Tannaitic literature, midrash Rabba), in the cave of Peqi'in Rabbi Shimon bar Yohai and his son Rabbi Elazar. The ancient synagogue in Peki'in was built after the destruction of the Temple.

Archeological remains were discovered in the vicinity of the village confirming the existence of a Jewish settlement in the Roman and Christian-Byzantine periods.

From the Arab-Muslim period to the Ottoman period (640-1516)

During this period the name of the village was changed to Arabic and called al-Buqai'a. From this period there is almost no information about Peki'in. Peki'in was a village whose residents were all Jews, apparently until the 14th century. According to the site of the Peki'in village council, the Christians came to the village following the Crusades in the 14th century. The village is mentioned in a Crusader document from 1220, Bokehel, indicating that it belongs to the king fortress.

According to one version, the Muslims reached Peki'in at the end of the 11th century, but according to another version they began to settle in the village only in the 18th century. Since the end of the 11th century the land was conquered by the Crusaders and the Muslims were the victims of massacres It is more likely to assume that the Muslims settled in the village in the 18th century, in light of the fact that the Ottomans invited Muslims to settle in a country that was sparsely populated.

The Druze also have two versions. According to the site of the Peki'in Council, the Druze community began in the 14th century. According to Ilan Toma, of the veteran Jewish families and the Yigal Allon Museum, the Druze settled in Peki'in for the first time in the late 18th century.

The Ottoman Period (1516 - 1918)

In 1522 the Jewish tourist Moshe Basula arrived in Israel and visited Peki'in, which was then called "Bukay". Basula mentioned in his book Jewish workers in Peki'in.

According to lists of taxpayers from the 16th century, between 33 and 45 Jewish families lived during the period of Ottoman rule in Peqi'in.

The situation of the Jews under Ottoman rule was difficult. The Ottomans imposed heavy taxes on the Jews and those who could not pay were thrown into prison, from which they had little chance of survival or were taken from their lands. For fear of the Ottoman rule, many of the Jewish landowners in Peqi'in preferred to relinquish their ownership. Some of the Jews registered their lands in the name of Druze neighbors and some sold some of their land.

In the 17 th and 18 th centuries Peki'in was not the only Jewish settlement. A number of other Jewish villages remained in the area, but the heavy taxes imposed by the Ottomans and raids by the Bedouins for robbery, looting and murder gradually led to the abandonment of some of the villages.

In addition to their involvement in agriculture, the Jews of Peqi'in engaged in the silk industry. A confirmation of this information is found in the tax lists of the Ottoman authorities and in the book "Questions and Answers" by the head of the Safed community, Rabbi Moshe ben Yosef Terni of 1602. Rabbi Chaim Ben Attar, a resident of Acre, moved to Peqi'in in 1742 and wrote about it. In 1759, an earthquake struck Safed and part of the Jewish community of Safed moved temporarily to Peki'in.

In 1765 Simcha ben Yehoshua visited Peki'in and, in his book, called the village by its Hebrew name, Peqi'in. He told about 50 Jewish families. In 1765, Rabbi Yosef Sofer, author of the book "Shivchei Eretz Yisrael", who lived in the village for several years, died in Peqi'in, and in 1789 they settled in Peqi'in Hasidim who fled from Tiberias and Safed, and in 1789 they sent a letter to their Ashkenazi brothers, In the village there were about 20 families of Peqi'in Jews who were native to the country, and their agricultural occupations were herds of sheep and cattle, and the emissaries praised the fertile land of Peki'in.

In 1824, about 20 families of Jewish descendants of the Second Temple lived in Peqi'in. They engaged in agriculture and supplied dairy products, honey, lemons and apples to markets in Israel. In 1837, Ashkenazi Jews settled in the village, who fled Safed due to an earthquake. However, in the same year an earthquake hit the entire area, and Peki'in was severely damaged, epidemics broke out and the situation was difficult. The Ashkenazim did not meet the difficulties of living there and left. In their place, 70 Spanish Jews settled in the village. At the end of the 19 th century Peki'in had 17 Jewish families (ie, between 85 and 102 people, according to a calculation of a family of 5-6 persons), and in 1883 Peirin visited Sir Laurence Oliphant and wrote a book on the relations between the religious communities in the village. 80 Druze families, 40 Greek Catholic families and 20 Jewish families.
During World War I (1914-1918), the Ottoman government tried to recruit Jewish men for work for the Ottoman army, and most of the men fled to the mountains to avoid it.

The synagogue and antiquities of Peqi'in

In 1873 construction of the synagogue was completed. The synagogue is located in the center of the village and was built on the site of the ancient synagogue. The ancient synagogue was of the Galilee synagogues in Baram and Meron. The ancient synagogue was built on the remains of the Beit Midrash of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Hananiah.According to local tradition, stones were brought to the synagogue from the Temple, on which were engraved a menorah, etrog, and lulav, as well as one of the gates of the Temple.

The ancient synagogue was built of wood sources, including hamra, and was severely damaged in the earthquake of 1837 and two more earthquakes. Its roof had collapsed completely and the building itself had been badly damaged.The stones were placed inside the new building. Ilan Toma, a descendant of the Toma-Cohen family, one of the families who survived the Second Temple period, relates that the stones were laid on their side in the new building, in memory of the destruction, but covered with plaster so as not to be stolen. The initiative and contribution to the rebuilding of the synagogue came from one of Beirut's wealthiest people, Raphael Halevy, and on the lintel of the synagogue there is an inscription indicating this.

Between 1926 and 1931 archaeologists examined the structure of the synagogue and came to the conclusion that it was not the stones of the Temple but rather two ancient stone tablets that survived the ancient synagogue.Archaeologists determined that on one tablet there is a relief of the Holy Ark and on the other a menorah, a lulav, a shofar and a brazier. Ilan argues that since the ancient synagogue was built of trees, the stones were brought from the ruins of the Temple.

In addition to the synagogue, Peki'in has two Jewish cemeteries at the eastern entrance to the village from the direction of Beit Jann. Below the building of the Jewish school are the remains of the ancient mikvah of the village, whose waters were brought from the spring of the village, where Rabbi Hoshaya, a man of Tirya, and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Hanania are buried.

The synagogue was renovated in 1956 by President Yitzhak Ben Zvi and a large menorah was built on it.

 

[Billo_Really]

You guys dismiss teachers for atrocities such as calling boys" boys" and girls "girls".
Toilet paper has more validity than Your moral judgment.

And btw, if You have no idea about the topic, You should give some respect to those who do want to discuss the subject, and stop derailing every thread to the same pretentious bs.

And your personal attacks on me is not derailing the threads?

 

[rylah]

Haim Farhi (Hebrew: חיים פרחי‎, Khayim Farkhiy; also known as Haim "El Mu'allim" "The Teacher"), (1760 – August 21, 1820) was an adviser to the governors of the Galilee in the days of the Ottoman Empire. Among the Jews he was known as Hakham Haim, because of his Talmudic learning.[1]

Farhi was chief advisor to Ahmad al-Jazzar of Acre, whose whims included blinding Farhi and leaving him physically scarred. Until his assassination in 1820, instigated by Farhi's own protege Abdullah Pasha, Farhi was the financial vizier and de facto ruler of Acre. After the murder, Abdullah Pasha ordered Farhi's body cast into the sea and confiscated all his property.[2] Two of Farhi’s brothers, Soliman and Rafael, living in Damascus, organized a siege against Abdullah Pasha in Acre to exact revenge.[2]

Historical background[edit]
After the Ottoman conquest of the Levant from the Mamluks in 1516, Galilee became part of its empire. Vast areas of Turkey, Asia, North Africa and Southeastern Europe were ruled almost autonomously by local governors. The Levant in particular, split into numerous feuding power centers.[3]

Rule over the 'Sanjak of Acre' (roughly present-day northern Israel) was supposed to derive from the authority of the Damascus governorate and its Walis. In the 18th century, a powerful local leader, Zahir al-Umar, effectively severed ties with the empire and initiated widespread reforms, improving road infrastructure and security, and encouraging Christian and Jewish merchants to settle in the area and revive commerce.

After the Treaty of Kuchuk-Kainarji was signed with Russia on July 21, 1774, Sultan Abdul Hamid I sought to reassert Turkish sovereignty by attacking Dhaher and blockading the port of Acre. His troops rose in revolt and murdered their leader. In 1775 a Turkish officer, the Bosnian Mameluk Ahmad al-Jazzar took over, and the Turks regained control over the northern areas of the land.[4]

Zahir al-Umar actively encouraged Jewish resettlement and personally invited Hayyim ben Jacob Abulafia of İzmir to settle in the Galilee. The rabbi, born in Hebron, then part of the Jerusalem Mutassariflik (Governorate/District), returned in 1740 and was received with full honours by Zahir. He settled in Tiberias, which was restored from its ruinous state. An impressive synagogue was built, roads were constructed, and Jewish agricultural settlements were founded at Pekiin, Shefa-'Amr, and Kafr Yasif. These policies continued under Ahmad al-Jazzar.[4]

The existence of a strong local authority enforced the law and prevented Bedouin banditry on the roads. Zahir was one of the most tolerant and efficient local leaders and meted out justice equally to Muslim, Christian and Jew.[4] This was the case in the days of Zahir and al-Jazzar who transformed the Galilee into a region that attracted both Arabsfrom Syria and Lebanon, and Jews from the east and west.

Adviser to al-Jazzar[edit]

Haim Farhi was born to a respected and ancient Jewish family in Damascus. His father Saul had established a banking business that flourished to the extent that it expanded to control Syria's finances, banking and foreign trade for nearly a century.[5][6] Together with other family members, Farhi worked as a financial agent in the Damascus district.[7]Contemporary sources often mention the family as being the "real rulers of Syria".[8]
They may also have mediated between the Jewish community and the authorities, trying to alleviate the tax burden placed on the Jews of Safed. Farhi succeeded his father as banker of the ruler of Damascus. He gained extensive influence with the Turkish government and became the adviser to Ahmad al-Jazzar, ruler of Acre. This was probably due to his intrigues that led to the execution of the previous advisor, Mikhail Sakruj, a Christian merchant from Shefa-'Amr.[9]

Al-Jazzar was a violent and cruel ruler, which is evidenced from his title 'al-Jazzar' meaning 'The Butcher'. He would often find pretext to lash out in savage assaults. He had Farhi's eye plucked out, cut off the tip of his nose, and severed his left ear.[10] (A famous illustration from the time shows al-Jazzar sitting in judgment in front of his Jewish adviser, who is wearing an eye patch.)

Haim Farhi - Wikipedia

 

[Sixties Fan]

Who’s indigenous here?

 

[Billo_Really]

Who’s indigenous here?

Not you!

 

[rylah]

Who’s indigenous here?

Not you!

Actually, exactly Sixties Fan.
If You only knew what the heck You were talking about.

 

[rylah]

Who’s indigenous here?

Not you!

The story of the indigenous people of the land,

in every generation there're 36 righteous people who help turn the world on the hand of right.
These are the indigenous people of the land:

 

[Shusha]

Denying the Jewish people's indigeniety in the lands of Israel, Judea and Samaria is patently, utterly ridiculous. It defies any reasonable definition of the term and rejects objective facts. The fact that this is even subject to discussion is blindingly anti-Jewish as it is not applied to any other indigenous culture.

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually, exactly Sixties Fan.
If You only knew what the heck You were talking about.

Bunch of wanna be Jethro Tull's.

 

[Billo_Really]

The story of the indigenous people of the land,

in every generation there're 36 righteous people who help turn the world on the hand of right.
These are the indigenous people of the land:

Well, I'm a liberal and I think the world should turn to the left.

People who move to the land from Europe are not indigenous. Only Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Christians are indigenous to that area. Zionists are not.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The story of the indigenous people of the land,

in every generation there're 36 righteous people who help turn the world on the hand of right.
These are the indigenous people of the land:

Well, I'm a liberal and I think the world should turn to the left.

People who move to the land from Europe are not indigenous. Only Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Christians are indigenous to that area. Zionists are not.

I remember very well you posting that you were not going to post on these threads again.

Am I the only one to remember that?

So, why are any one of us answering.....again.....this person's senseless posts?

Let foolish Billo spit his venom all to himself. I can hear the Boomerang.

 

[Sixties Fan]

In the last 1400 years, Islamist expansionism has wiped out most of the ancient indigenous civilizations of the East and taken their land. I came to study the soul of the Jewish people, what it is that gave them strength to return and build anew.

(full article online)

Reclaiming ancestral land: Lessons from tiny, strong, beautiful Israel

 

[rylah]

Actually, exactly Sixties Fan.
If You only knew what the heck You were talking about.

Bunch of wanna be Jethro Tull's.

That's nice, I love prog and virtuoso performance,
yet some 12 notes are still missing to compare it to middle eastern tonality.



However didn't You notice that usually authentic middle easter music requires this sort of virtuosity as the most basic fascility to perform? The rhythm patterns are much more asymmetric and syncopated, basically all improvised like session musicians do. They basically start where western prog reaches for.

 

[rylah]

The story of the indigenous people of the land,

in every generation there're 36 righteous people who help turn the world on the hand of right.
These are the indigenous people of the land:

Well, I'm a liberal and I think the world should turn to the left.

People who move to the land from Europe are not indigenous. Only Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews and Palestinian-Christians are indigenous to that area. Zionists are not.

I'm a descendant of a Palestinian Jew, I say all Jews who according to Jewish law belong to my tribe are part of my society and self determination. I'll give them my home, my fridge and bed if needed.