The Life Cycle of Liberty

[Diuretic]

Just some general observations if I may.

One of the arguments you're referring to SP seems to indicate that societies are locked into a loop.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

I don't know where this came from but it doesn't make sense. Societies don't do that.

Jared Diamond in his book "Collapse" suggested something along these lines:

Diamond lists eight factors which have historically contributed to the collapse of past societies:
Deforestation and habitat destruction
Soil problems (erosion, salinization, and soil fertility losses)
Water management problems
Overhunting
Overfishing
Effects of introduced species on native species
Overpopulation
Increased per-capita impact of people

That's from a Wikipedia entry but it's accurate if I remember rightly from reading the book.

A bit more:

Further, he says four new factors may contribute to the weakening and collapse of present and future societies:
Human-caused climate change
Buildup of toxins in the environment
Energy shortages
Full human utilization of the Earth’s photosynthetic capacity

Diamond also writes about cultural factors, such as the apparent reluctance of the Greenland Norse to eat fish.

The root problem in all but one of Diamond's factors leading to collapse is overpopulation relative to the practicable (as opposed to the ideal theoretical) carrying capacity of the environment. The one factor not related to overpopulation is the harmful effect of accidentally or intentionally introducing nonnative species to a region.

Diamond also states that "it would be absurd to claim that environmental damage must be a major factor in all collapses: the collapse of the Soviet Union is a modern counter-example, and the destruction of Carthage by Rome in 146 BC is an ancient one. It's obviously true that military or economic factors alone may suffice" (p. 15).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_(book)

Things might be changing in the United States but they're changing everywhere else as well. I don't think the US is going to collapse any time soon.

 

[Ringel05]

Just some general observations if I may.

One of the arguments you're referring to SP seems to indicate that societies are locked into a loop.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage.

I don't know where this came from but it doesn't make sense. Societies don't do that.

Jared Diamond in his book "Collapse" suggested something along these lines:

Diamond lists eight factors which have historically contributed to the collapse of past societies:
Deforestation and habitat destruction
Soil problems (erosion, salinization, and soil fertility losses)
Water management problems
Overhunting
Overfishing
Effects of introduced species on native species
Overpopulation
Increased per-capita impact of people

That's from a Wikipedia entry but it's accurate if I remember rightly from reading the book.

A bit more:

Further, he says four new factors may contribute to the weakening and collapse of present and future societies:
Human-caused climate change
Buildup of toxins in the environment
Energy shortages
Full human utilization of the Earth’s photosynthetic capacity

Diamond also writes about cultural factors, such as the apparent reluctance of the Greenland Norse to eat fish.

The root problem in all but one of Diamond's factors leading to collapse is overpopulation relative to the practicable (as opposed to the ideal theoretical) carrying capacity of the environment. The one factor not related to overpopulation is the harmful effect of accidentally or intentionally introducing nonnative species to a region.

Diamond also states that "it would be absurd to claim that environmental damage must be a major factor in all collapses: the collapse of the Soviet Union is a modern counter-example, and the destruction of Carthage by Rome in 146 BC is an ancient one. It's obviously true that military or economic factors alone may suffice" (p. 15).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_(book)

Things might be changing in the United States but they're changing everywhere else as well. I don't think the US is going to collapse any time soon.

Di, the 200 years is an average based what was the life span of the major world powers through out history. The first phase is expansion, followed by prosperity, then entitlement, contraction, dictatorship and eventual collapse. Through out history the pattern has been constantly repeating itself, closely mirroring the stages listed above to some degree or another.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The United States as an entity may not collapse in the near future but the United States as a bastion of liberty and freedom is in decline.

We are having the fundamental right of choice taken from us. The lion's share of most peoples' income is being confiscated by the government in the form of taxes. We are less financially secure as individuals because of government policy not more.

The direction of our government is not one that is promoting economic liberty therefore it is not promoting liberty at all.

Tell me how will the government forcing you to buy a more expensive health insurance than you might want to buy thereby reducing your ability to pay for some other necessity or possibly save for your retirement promoting your well being?

How will the skyrocketing energy costs that cap and trade will foster help you?

how will the VAT (which will become a reality in the near future) that siphons even more of your money into government coffers be good for you? what percentage of your income, the fruit of your labor is too much for the government to take from you; 60%.75%. 90%? when does taxation prevent you from choosing your own life style? when does taxation lessen your chance of attaining some measure of financial security?

Do you realize that this country has nearly 106 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities with a per tax payer liability of over 300,000 dollars or that each taxpayer's national debt liability is nearly 110,000 dollars each? The government has put each of us over 400,000 dollars in debt and is looking to take a bigger share of your money to increase that liability even more.

tell me how some wealthy person has put you in that much debt. tell me how the super rich are at fault for our government taxing us into poverty so that we become totally beholden to the it for everything.