The Inherent Evil of Conservative Ideology

[BlackAsCoal]

Has there ever been a war where there was no support whatsoever by the other side of the aisle?
This is not a baiting question...it is a valid question.

It is a valid question and one that I appreciate good brother.

Before I answer, as I've demonstrated, there is conservative thought on the other side of the ailse as well. This is not just about the condemnation of republicans.. it's about the condemnation of conservative thought.

To answer your question, no. Many democrats will support any war they can get their hands on .. but these are conservative democrats.

However, there is much opposition to war on the democratic side, but there is scant little opposition to war from the right outside of Ron Paul. That has not always been tha case within the Republican Party ..

Mr. Antiwar Republican
The American Conservative -- Mr. Antiwar Republican

Voting for a war does not mean one supports the idea of war. I know that sounds rediculous, but give me a chance to explain.

War is viewed by most as a necessary evil. I hated the idea of the Iraq invasion as I knew that there would be innocent blood shed. But I also was aware of Husseins past agressions (Kuwait), unecessary acts of war (SCUDS to Israel), and desire to expand his control. Whereas I never equated Iraq with 9-11, I believed that we needed to solidify a presence in the region in an effort to keep any front off our shores.
Now, after the ease of the Gulf War with minimal bloodshed, I saw the action as low risk and necessary. Sure, now I see it as otherwise, but then again, thankfully, I was not the one who had to make the decision.
So whereas I understand why you see "war" as a conservative way of life, I disagree. Conservatives see it as a necessary evil.
Now, that being said, look at the alternative. Without "war" where would we be today? Under the control of Nazism? Under the control of Shirya Law?
I hate war. But without it, where would we be?

Needless war is just evil, nothing about is is necessary.

War is a Racket
USMC Major General Smedley Butler
War is a Racket

We mass-murdered countless innocent people .. what do we say .. Ooops?

Needless war is the epitome of terrorism.

You wanna stop terrorism .. stop using it.

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil in Columbus, Georgia, where we've trained legions of murderers, rapists, and monsters .. and we unleashed them upon Latin America like a plague.

School of the Americas Graduates
School of the Americas Graduates

All the invasion of Iraq accomplished was making more money for energy corportions than any corporations in the history of Man, inflame even more anti-americanism, damage American influence and power, AND, hand Iraq over to Iran like a christmas present.

We didn't even get the oil .. which was one of the goals .. much of that oil and the contracts are going to China, which uses soft power to expand their agenda.

The invasion of Iraq was ignorant all the way around. Incredibly ignorant .. and America's sons and daughters paid the price for that incredible ignorance.

I would not characterize WWII as needless war, but deception was used by Roosevelt to get us ino it .. just ask Churchill.

Deception is business as usual for war .. and war for us is business.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident .. never happened. 60,000 dead Americans from that lie.

There was no "domino effect"

USS Maine and the Spanish-American War. America falsely accused the Spanish of blowing up the Maine when we knew that was a lie .. but that lie was used to whip Americans into a posture for war.

I could go on .. but Americans are invented people. We live in a sort of alternate universe where up is down. We judge other nations entirely different than we judge our own. Had Russia or China invaded small nations as we do, we would be screaming with anger.

In fact, we screamed at Russia for being in Afghanistan .. AND my brother .. we created the organization there to stop them .. which later became AlQueda .. trained and created with our tax dollars. Bin Laden was our friend and employee. So was Saddam.

We gave the president of Georgia a billion US taxpayer dollars for the lie that he and the CIA drummed up to go to war with Russia .. that got lots of his own people killed .. by he got paid .. with your money.

I could go on again .. but the point is that there is a HUGE difference between needless war .. which makes one a war criminal .. and justified war.

 

[Jarhead]

It is a valid question and one that I appreciate good brother.

Before I answer, as I've demonstrated, there is conservative thought on the other side of the ailse as well. This is not just about the condemnation of republicans.. it's about the condemnation of conservative thought.

To answer your question, no. Many democrats will support any war they can get their hands on .. but these are conservative democrats.

However, there is much opposition to war on the democratic side, but there is scant little opposition to war from the right outside of Ron Paul. That has not always been tha case within the Republican Party ..

Mr. Antiwar Republican
The American Conservative -- Mr. Antiwar Republican

Voting for a war does not mean one supports the idea of war. I know that sounds rediculous, but give me a chance to explain.

War is viewed by most as a necessary evil. I hated the idea of the Iraq invasion as I knew that there would be innocent blood shed. But I also was aware of Husseins past agressions (Kuwait), unecessary acts of war (SCUDS to Israel), and desire to expand his control. Whereas I never equated Iraq with 9-11, I believed that we needed to solidify a presence in the region in an effort to keep any front off our shores.
Now, after the ease of the Gulf War with minimal bloodshed, I saw the action as low risk and necessary. Sure, now I see it as otherwise, but then again, thankfully, I was not the one who had to make the decision.
So whereas I understand why you see "war" as a conservative way of life, I disagree. Conservatives see it as a necessary evil.
Now, that being said, look at the alternative. Without "war" where would we be today? Under the control of Nazism? Under the control of Shirya Law?
I hate war. But without it, where would we be?

Needless war is just evil, nothing about is is necessary.

War is a Racket
USMC Major General Smedley Butler
War is a Racket

We mass-murdered countless innocent people .. what do we say .. Ooops?

Needless war is the epitome of terrorism.

You wanna stop terrorism .. stop using it.

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil in Columbus, Georgia, where we've trained legions of murderers, rapists, and monsters .. and we unleashed them upon Latin America like a plague.

School of the Americas Graduates
School of the Americas Graduates

All the invasion of Iraq accomplished was making more money for energy corportions than any corporations in the history of Man, inflame even more anti-americanism, damage American influence and power, AND, hand Iraq over to Iran like a christmas present.

We didn't even get the oil .. which was one of the goals .. much of that oil and the contracts are going to China, which uses soft power to expand their agenda.

The invasion of Iraq was ignorant all the way around. Incredibly ignorant .. and America's sons and daughters paid the price for that incredible ignorance.

I would not characterize WWII as needless war, but deception was used by Roosevelt to get us ino it .. just ask Churchill.

Deception is business as usual for war .. and war for us is business.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident .. never happened. 60,000 dead Americans from that lie.

There was no "domino effect"

USS Maine and the Spanish-American War. America falsely accused the Spanish of blowing up the Maine when we knew that was a lie .. but that lie was used to whip Americans into a posture for war.

I could go on .. but Americans are invented people. We live in a sort of alternate universe where up is down. We judge other nations entirely different than we judge our own. Had Russia or China invaded small nations as we do, we would be screaming with anger.

In fact, we screamed at Russia for being in Afghanistan .. AND my brother .. we created the organization there to stop them .. which later became AlQueda .. trained and created with our tax dollars. Bin Laden was our friend and employee. So was Saddam.

We gave the president of Georgia a billion US taxpayer dollars for the lie that he and the CIA drummed up to go to war with Russia .. that got lots of his own people killed .. by he got paid .. with your money.

I could go on again .. but the point is that there is a HUGE difference between needless war .. which makes one a war criminal .. and justified war.

I agree.

But hoiw does one define a needless war?

What criteria do we follow to determine if a war is necessary?

( I guess that second question was redundant.)

 

[M14 Shooter]

The thread is about ideology, specifically Conservative ideology.

More correctly, its about a list of strawmen compiled by partisan bigots and posted by a useful idiot.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Voting for a war does not mean one supports the idea of war. I know that sounds rediculous, but give me a chance to explain.

War is viewed by most as a necessary evil. I hated the idea of the Iraq invasion as I knew that there would be innocent blood shed. But I also was aware of Husseins past agressions (Kuwait), unecessary acts of war (SCUDS to Israel), and desire to expand his control. Whereas I never equated Iraq with 9-11, I believed that we needed to solidify a presence in the region in an effort to keep any front off our shores.
Now, after the ease of the Gulf War with minimal bloodshed, I saw the action as low risk and necessary. Sure, now I see it as otherwise, but then again, thankfully, I was not the one who had to make the decision.
So whereas I understand why you see "war" as a conservative way of life, I disagree. Conservatives see it as a necessary evil.
Now, that being said, look at the alternative. Without "war" where would we be today? Under the control of Nazism? Under the control of Shirya Law?
I hate war. But without it, where would we be?

Needless war is just evil, nothing about is is necessary.

War is a Racket
USMC Major General Smedley Butler
War is a Racket

We mass-murdered countless innocent people .. what do we say .. Ooops?

Needless war is the epitome of terrorism.

You wanna stop terrorism .. stop using it.

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil in Columbus, Georgia, where we've trained legions of murderers, rapists, and monsters .. and we unleashed them upon Latin America like a plague.

School of the Americas Graduates
School of the Americas Graduates

All the invasion of Iraq accomplished was making more money for energy corportions than any corporations in the history of Man, inflame even more anti-americanism, damage American influence and power, AND, hand Iraq over to Iran like a christmas present.

We didn't even get the oil .. which was one of the goals .. much of that oil and the contracts are going to China, which uses soft power to expand their agenda.

The invasion of Iraq was ignorant all the way around. Incredibly ignorant .. and America's sons and daughters paid the price for that incredible ignorance.

I would not characterize WWII as needless war, but deception was used by Roosevelt to get us ino it .. just ask Churchill.

Deception is business as usual for war .. and war for us is business.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident .. never happened. 60,000 dead Americans from that lie.

There was no "domino effect"

USS Maine and the Spanish-American War. America falsely accused the Spanish of blowing up the Maine when we knew that was a lie .. but that lie was used to whip Americans into a posture for war.

I could go on .. but Americans are invented people. We live in a sort of alternate universe where up is down. We judge other nations entirely different than we judge our own. Had Russia or China invaded small nations as we do, we would be screaming with anger.

In fact, we screamed at Russia for being in Afghanistan .. AND my brother .. we created the organization there to stop them .. which later became AlQueda .. trained and created with our tax dollars. Bin Laden was our friend and employee. So was Saddam.

We gave the president of Georgia a billion US taxpayer dollars for the lie that he and the CIA drummed up to go to war with Russia .. that got lots of his own people killed .. by he got paid .. with your money.

I could go on again .. but the point is that there is a HUGE difference between needless war .. which makes one a war criminal .. and justified war.

I agree.

But hoiw does one define a needless war?

What criteria do we follow to determine if a war is necessary?

( I guess that second question was redundant.)

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC

War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
War is a Racket

The specter of war should be considered very carefully and it must be assumed that deception is at play.

"Well, it's a racket, all right. A few profit – and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences. You can't eliminate it by peace parleys at Geneva. Well-meaning but impractical groups can't wipe it out by resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war" -- Gen. Butler

If nothing else comes from my taking the time to write this OP but my conversations with you, it was well worth the effort.

Thank you brother

 

[M14 Shooter]

That was very insightful Mr. M14.

Indeed, it was.
Providing that one has an understanding of the term 'strawman' and is privy to the origin of 'useful idiot', anyway.

Easy to discern your intellectual prowess

Says he that put up innumerable straw men just so he could beat them down.
Oh, the prowess involved in such a display.
:roll:

Nary a claim in that petulant diatribe can be substantiated, and as such, it defeats itself.

Yet another dummy claiming it's just unsubstantiated garbage...

Because that's exactly what it is.
You cannot substantiate anything in the post, and thus there's no need to refute it.

 

[Jarhead]

Needless war is just evil, nothing about is is necessary.

War is a Racket
USMC Major General Smedley Butler
War is a Racket

We mass-murdered countless innocent people .. what do we say .. Ooops?

Needless war is the epitome of terrorism.

You wanna stop terrorism .. stop using it.

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil in Columbus, Georgia, where we've trained legions of murderers, rapists, and monsters .. and we unleashed them upon Latin America like a plague.

School of the Americas Graduates
School of the Americas Graduates

All the invasion of Iraq accomplished was making more money for energy corportions than any corporations in the history of Man, inflame even more anti-americanism, damage American influence and power, AND, hand Iraq over to Iran like a christmas present.

We didn't even get the oil .. which was one of the goals .. much of that oil and the contracts are going to China, which uses soft power to expand their agenda.

The invasion of Iraq was ignorant all the way around. Incredibly ignorant .. and America's sons and daughters paid the price for that incredible ignorance.

I would not characterize WWII as needless war, but deception was used by Roosevelt to get us ino it .. just ask Churchill.

Deception is business as usual for war .. and war for us is business.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident .. never happened. 60,000 dead Americans from that lie.

There was no "domino effect"

USS Maine and the Spanish-American War. America falsely accused the Spanish of blowing up the Maine when we knew that was a lie .. but that lie was used to whip Americans into a posture for war.

I could go on .. but Americans are invented people. We live in a sort of alternate universe where up is down. We judge other nations entirely different than we judge our own. Had Russia or China invaded small nations as we do, we would be screaming with anger.

In fact, we screamed at Russia for being in Afghanistan .. AND my brother .. we created the organization there to stop them .. which later became AlQueda .. trained and created with our tax dollars. Bin Laden was our friend and employee. So was Saddam.

We gave the president of Georgia a billion US taxpayer dollars for the lie that he and the CIA drummed up to go to war with Russia .. that got lots of his own people killed .. by he got paid .. with your money.

I could go on again .. but the point is that there is a HUGE difference between needless war .. which makes one a war criminal .. and justified war.

I agree.

But hoiw does one define a needless war?

What criteria do we follow to determine if a war is necessary?

( I guess that second question was redundant.)

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC

War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
War is a Racket

The specter of war should be considered very carefully and it must be assumed that deception is at play.

"Well, it's a racket, all right. A few profit – and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences. You can't eliminate it by peace parleys at Geneva. Well-meaning but impractical groups can't wipe it out by resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war" -- Gen. Butler

If nothing else comes from my taking the time to write this OP but my conversations with you, it was well worth the effort.

Thank you brother

I must respectfully disagree with his premise.

In today's age with technology as it is.....one needs to be more proactive than re-active.

Exactly when do you step in as it pertains to Iran for example. AFTER it nukes Israel? After it establishes an armed bomb? After it enriches uranium? Never?

Do we simply turn the other way as it pertains to our allies? Should we wait until South Korea is lifeless?

In 1933 there was no such thing as a WMD....I can see being reactive the path to take.

But with WMD's, 1 million people can die in an instant...

 

[Jarhead]

And yes, I agree BlackasCoal....very informative debate. Civil too. Refreshing!

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Indeed, it was.
Providing that one has an understanding of the term 'strawman' and is privy to the origin of 'useful idiot', anyway.


Says he that put up innumerable straw men just so he could beat them down.
Oh, the prowess involved in such a display.
:roll:

Nary a claim in that petulant diatribe can be substantiated, and as such, it defeats itself.

Yet another dummy claiming it's just unsubstantiated garbage...

Because that's exactly what it is.
You cannot substantiate anything in the post, and thus there's no need to refute it.

Oh really ..

Their great hero Ronald Reagan once wanted to classify ketchup as a vegetable because two vegetables where required in school lunch programs.

The ketchup as a vegetable controversy refers to a proposed United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Food and Drug Administration directive, early in the administration of Ronald Reagan, that would have reclassified ketchup and pickle relish from condiments to vegetables, allowing public schools to cut out a serving of cooked or fresh vegetable from hot lunch program child-nutrition requirements. The White House Office of Management and Budget estimated a potential US $1 billion annual savings in the cost of subsidized meals for low-income students.
Ketchup as a vegetable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As a new more conservative Congress takes their seats today, they’ve got one thing on their minds, money.

Which issues are most important for the new Congress to tackle?

1] Health care repeal - MONEY
2] Government spending - MONEY
3] Debt ceiling - MONEY
4] No Child Left Behind - Education, MONEY
5] Balanced budget amendment - MONEY
6] War funding - MONEY
7] Deficit commission proposal - MONEY
8] Bush tax cuts - MONEY
9] Job creation - Incredible

Post User Polls: Which issues are most important for the new Congress to tackle? - Bethonie Butler

They want to give as much as they can to themselves and all the rich people they can dig up, and at the same time destroy and/or eliminate Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and they stand in lock step against any attempts to provide adequate health care to all Americans.

SEE: The Bush Tax Cuts
SEE: Repal of health care plan / conservative opposition to health care
SEE: Privatization of Social Security
SEE: Catfood Commission

The same healthcare that is provided to virtually the rest of the planet

Norway 1912 Single Payer
New Zealand 1938 Two Tier
Japan 1938 Single Payer
Germany 1941 Insurance Mandate
Belgium 1945 Insurance Mandate
United Kingdom 1948 Single Payer
Kuwait 1950 Single Payer
Sweden 1955 Single Payer
Bahrain 1957 Single Payer
Brunei 1958 Single Payer
Canada 1966 Single Payer
Netherlands 1966 Two-Tier
Austria 1967 Insurance Mandate
United Arab Emirates 1971 Single Payer
Finland 1972 Single Payer
Slovenia 1972 Single Payer
Denmark 1973 Two-Tier
Luxembourg 1973 Insurance Mandate
France 1974 Two-Tier
Australia 1975 Two Tier
Ireland 1977 Two-Tier
Italy 1978 Single Payer
Portugal 1979 Single Payer
Cyprus 1980 Single Payer
Greece 1983 Insurance Mandate
Spain 1986 Single Payer
South Korea 1988 Insurance Mandate
Iceland 1990 Single Payer
Hong Kong 1993 Two-Tier
Singapore 1993 Two-Tier
Switzerland 1994 Insurance Mandate
Israel 1995
List of Countries with Universal Healthcare True Cost – Analyzing our economy, government policy, and society through the lens of cost-benefit

Programs such as these are the only things keeping millions of American seniors alive. Without them they couldn’t afford to stay alive

11% of the people in the United States who are 65 and older live at the poverty level. Eleven percent – that’s three point eight million people, or the equivalent of the population of Los Angeles and Denver combined. They barely have an existence, and they don’t have any assets. They’re barely getting by. For them, old age is the dark at the end of the tunnel.

Without Medicare… that 11% of people at the poverty level would grow to almost 30%. Gone would be the great benefit Medicare gives to older adults.

Without Social Security 45% of American seniors would be at the poverty level – or below it. That’s how important those two entitlement programs are.
America's crisis in the senior population growth

I could go on .. but my point has been made

 

[BlackAsCoal]

And yes, I agree BlackasCoal....very informative debate. Civil too. Refreshing!

Thank you brother.

 

[mdn2000]

Mr. Butler made that statement as a Politician, seems the old General was at war with some University educated Admirals.

 

[Muhammed]

It is a valid question and one that I appreciate good brother.

Before I answer, as I've demonstrated, there is conservative thought on the other side of the ailse as well. This is not just about the condemnation of republicans.. it's about the condemnation of conservative thought.

To answer your question, no. Many democrats will support any war they can get their hands on .. but these are conservative democrats.

However, there is much opposition to war on the democratic side, but there is scant little opposition to war from the right outside of Ron Paul. That has not always been tha case within the Republican Party ..

Mr. Antiwar Republican
The American Conservative -- Mr. Antiwar Republican

Voting for a war does not mean one supports the idea of war. I know that sounds rediculous, but give me a chance to explain.

War is viewed by most as a necessary evil. I hated the idea of the Iraq invasion as I knew that there would be innocent blood shed. But I also was aware of Husseins past agressions (Kuwait), unecessary acts of war (SCUDS to Israel), and desire to expand his control. Whereas I never equated Iraq with 9-11, I believed that we needed to solidify a presence in the region in an effort to keep any front off our shores.
Now, after the ease of the Gulf War with minimal bloodshed, I saw the action as low risk and necessary. Sure, now I see it as otherwise, but then again, thankfully, I was not the one who had to make the decision.
So whereas I understand why you see "war" as a conservative way of life, I disagree. Conservatives see it as a necessary evil.
Now, that being said, look at the alternative. Without "war" where would we be today? Under the control of Nazism? Under the control of Shirya Law?
I hate war. But without it, where would we be?

Needless war is just evil, nothing about is is necessary.

War is a Racket
USMC Major General Smedley Butler
War is a Racket

We mass-murdered countless innocent people .. what do we say .. Ooops?

Needless war is the epitome of terrorism.

You wanna stop terrorism .. stop using it.

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil in Columbus, Georgia, where we've trained legions of murderers, rapists, and monsters .. and we unleashed them upon Latin America like a plague.

School of the Americas Graduates
School of the Americas Graduates

All the invasion of Iraq accomplished was making more money for energy corportions than any corporations in the history of Man, inflame even more anti-americanism, damage American influence and power, AND, hand Iraq over to Iran like a christmas present.

We didn't even get the oil .. which was one of the goals .. much of that oil and the contracts are going to China, which uses soft power to expand their agenda.

The invasion of Iraq was ignorant all the way around. Incredibly ignorant .. and America's sons and daughters paid the price for that incredible ignorance.

I would not characterize WWII as needless war, but deception was used by Roosevelt to get us ino it .. just ask Churchill.

Deception is business as usual for war .. and war for us is business.

Gulf of Tonkin Incident .. never happened. 60,000 dead Americans from that lie.

There was no "domino effect"

USS Maine and the Spanish-American War. America falsely accused the Spanish of blowing up the Maine when we knew that was a lie .. but that lie was used to whip Americans into a posture for war.

I could go on .. but Americans are invented people. We live in a sort of alternate universe where up is down. We judge other nations entirely different than we judge our own. Had Russia or China invaded small nations as we do, we would be screaming with anger.

In fact, we screamed at Russia for being in Afghanistan .. AND my brother .. we created the organization there to stop them .. which later became AlQueda .. trained and created with our tax dollars. Bin Laden was our friend and employee. So was Saddam.

We gave the president of Georgia a billion US taxpayer dollars for the lie that he and the CIA drummed up to go to war with Russia .. that got lots of his own people killed .. by he got paid .. with your money.

I could go on again .. but the point is that there is a HUGE difference between needless war .. which makes one a war criminal .. and justified war.

Another typical Dumb Ass XXXXXXX lie.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I agree.

But hoiw does one define a needless war?

What criteria do we follow to determine if a war is necessary?

( I guess that second question was redundant.)

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC

War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
War is a Racket

The specter of war should be considered very carefully and it must be assumed that deception is at play.

"Well, it's a racket, all right. A few profit – and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences. You can't eliminate it by peace parleys at Geneva. Well-meaning but impractical groups can't wipe it out by resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war" -- Gen. Butler

If nothing else comes from my taking the time to write this OP but my conversations with you, it was well worth the effort.

Thank you brother

I must respectfully disagree with his premise.

In today's age with technology as it is.....one needs to be more proactive than re-active.

Exactly when do you step in as it pertains to Iran for example. AFTER it nukes Israel? After it establishes an armed bomb? After it enriches uranium? Never?

Do we simply turn the other way as it pertains to our allies? Should we wait until South Korea is lifeless?

In 1933 there was no such thing as a WMD....I can see being reactive the path to take.

But with WMD's, 1 million people can die in an instant...

Good questions.

Israel has nukes of its own .. lots of them.

How does the only nation in the world to actually use nuclear weapons .. TWICE .. didn't have to do it either time .. we were testing .. how do WE get to determine who else gets to have them? We don't.

Iran has every right to the same weapons that we or Israel have. Israel is in violation of more UN Resolutions than any nation in history .. and their past behavior makes Israel the greatest threat to world peace, not Iran.

EU Poll Names Israel Greatest Threat to World Peace
EU Poll Names Israel Greatest Threat to World Peace | Current Affairs | Deutsche Welle | 04.11.2003

Consider the deceptions of war before you sign on to attacking Iran .. and consider the consequences.

12 Consequences of Attacking Iran
12 Consequences of Attacking Iran - by Jon Basil Utley

War game shows how attacking Iran could backfire
War game shows how attacking Iran could backfire | McClatchy

You couldn't just do it from the air, you'd have to have ground troops to ensure the mission was accomplished

Are you sure you'd want to see a ground war with US troops in IRAN?

We got our asses kicked out of a TINY nation and humiliated .. Vietnam

We're getting our asses kicked out of a small nation in Iraq

Iraqi PM Says US Troops Must Leave on Time
Iraqi PM Says US Troops Must Leave on Time

Iran's new foreign minister in Iraq to cement ties
Iran's new foreign minister in Iraq to cement ties - CTV News

Al-Sadr has returned

Iraq: With al-Sadr Back In, Is U.S. on Way Out?
Iraq: Will Return of al-Sadr Mean U.S. Troop Withdrawal? - TIME

Consider this ...

Towards a Russia -China -Iran Military Alliance?
Will Iran become a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization?
Towards a Russia -China -Iran Military Alliance?

AND we're losing in the stone-age nation of Afghanistan.

Or military is beaten down from over-deployment, our Treasury is damn near broke

.. yet we should attack Iran for Israel?

That would be insane

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Check this out ..

Another typical Dumb Ass XXXXXXX lie.

From something called Muhammed

 

[Nosmo King]

Racial epithets are the last refuge of a moron. Whenever some mouth breathing idiot runs out of ideas, he pulls this crap to make a point.

Well, the point is well taken. He will get all the respect he has earned.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Racial epithets are the last refuge of a moron. Whenever some mouth breathing idiot runs out of ideas, he pulls this crap to make a point.

Well, the point is well taken. He will get all the respect he has earned.

Notice that it didn't have the intelligence to even attempt to refute what I said.

Let me guess what side of the fence that thing resides on.

Typical

 

[Jarhead]

BlackAsCoal...we are discussing war in general....not just the US.

So the question is not who is allowed to have or not to have...the question is how is one to react if they feel that a WMD is going to be used against its people?

Prior to WMD's, the worst case scenario for any nation was last minute noticing of military movement of an adversary. You saw them approaching a border and you secured the border and war was not declared until the enemy attempted to cross the border.

Yes, a simple description, but certainly gets the point across.

Now? You may lose 1 million citizens in a blink of an eye. A ICBM is shot up and you have 2 hour to warn your citizens.

So I see it as war as a necessary evil....fopr if we refrain from war, we may be attacked and beaten.

Hey, we could have ended the Vietnam war with the drop of a nuke. Same in Iraq.

Thankfully, we have learned from the horrors of our use of the bomb and I do not think we will ever use them again.

Can we say the same for Iran? The same for N. Korea? Would we have been able to say the same for Hussein?

Let me ask you this.....if our intel showed that North Korea had installed an ICBM platform on Cuba with a nuke warheads...would you be adverse to military action if Cuba ignored diplomatic attmepts to difuse the situation?

Would you wait unti AFTER they shot it off?

You do realize that if we are reactive, we have already lost hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Thoughts?

 

[kaz]

There is deeply-rooted evil in any ideology where money is more important than the peace and well-being of human life

True, and the party obsessed with control of capital in this country by themselves is the Democratic party. Republicans let people, at least to a larger degree then Democrats, make their own choices. I always love these where liberals pat themselves on the back while practicing complete and utter hypocrisy over what they are strutting about.

 

[Jarhead]

Racial epithets are the last refuge of a moron. Whenever some mouth breathing idiot runs out of ideas, he pulls this crap to make a point.

Well, the point is well taken. He will get all the respect he has earned.

Notice that it didn't have the intelligence to even attempt to refute what I said.

Let me guess what side of the fence that thing resides on.

Typical

uh.....my side my friend. My side of the fence.

Dont forget that.

Dont generalize. He diusgusts me and most of mine as well.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Racial epithets are the last refuge of a moron. Whenever some mouth breathing idiot runs out of ideas, he pulls this crap to make a point.

Well, the point is well taken. He will get all the respect he has earned.

Notice that it didn't have the intelligence to even attempt to refute what I said.

Let me guess what side of the fence that thing resides on.

Typical

uh.....my side my friend. My side of the fence.

Dont forget that.

Dont generalize. He diusgusts me and most of mine as well.

Absolutely .. which is why I make the distinctions .. but your side has always been a home for hate and assholes just like that.

If one is looking for hate of everything that doesn't smell like them .. the conservative side of the aisle is a place they can call home.

That DOES NOT suggest that every conservative is like that .. but that's where home is.

As you know, no disrespect is intended .. and because I don't want to destroy this thread with an asshole .. I've dropped it

 

[Jarhead]

Notice that it didn't have the intelligence to even attempt to refute what I said.

Let me guess what side of the fence that thing resides on.

Typical

uh.....my side my friend. My side of the fence.

Dont forget that.

Dont generalize. He diusgusts me and most of mine as well.

Absolutely .. which is why I make the distinctions .. but your side has always been a home for hate and assholes just like that.

If one is looking for hate of everything that doesn't smell like them .. the conservative side of the aisle is a place they can call home.

That DOES NOT suggest that every conservative is like that .. but that's where home is.

As you know, no disrespect is intended .. and because I don't want to destroy this thread with an asshole .. I've dropped it

OK....but our side is not their home sweet home. We make it clear to them that their hate is not wanted and not part of our ideology (for lack of a better word).
And your side has hateful people as well. Activists that use harmful measures such as the Weather Underground and such.
But I do not blame you or any progressive for those that use your ideology as an excuse for thier vile actions.
Just as I do not blame Muslims for the fact that radicals use THEIR faith as an excuse for thier actions.
There...I said my piece....now back to the thread.