The Future Conflict Between the US and International Banking Cartels (& co.)

[editec]

The powers behind the Fed?
You mean Congress?
Yeah, I'll disprove your silly conspiracy.
Pass me the weed first.

International banking cartels are behind the Fed, not congress.
It seems you are a spinning wheel and just want to keep issues going nowhere. It's like your afraid of the truth because than you will have to admit that you do not live in sunshine and lollipop land.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

The Fed was created by an act of Congress.
Why does printing silver certificates threaten the existence of the Fed or the evil bankers behind them? Spell it out.

Don't bogart that joint!

1. the FED would NOT be behind those silver certificate, the TREASURY would.

2. Which would you rather have?

Dollars that you can convert to silver, or dollars that you cannot convert to silver?

Silver certificates would have created TWO CLASSES of money.

Money people wanted (Silver certs) and money people didn't want (FED Reserve "notes")

Really. Todd, was that so difficult for you to figure out on your own?

 

[expat_panama]

...1. the FED would NOT be behind those silver certificate, the TREASURY would...

The Fed's role with prices was the same for silver certificates as it is with FRN's

...2. Which would you rather have? Dollars that you can convert to silver, or dollars that you cannot convert to silver?...

FRN's can be exchanged for silver just like silver certificates were. The rate of exchange between dollars and silver varied with both; here's silver's price changing before 1964 (when FRN's began)---

---as it did after:

 

[editec]

...if you could get a dollar that would give you coin silver upon request or one that you could not redeem for silver coin, which would you rather have?...

That choice does not exist because we already can exchange our dollars for silver coins as easily as we exchange dollars for food. The reason we stopped using silver coins for money was precious metal prices are volatile and a silver coin that bought ten loaves of bread one day could only buy 8 the next. We fixed that and now food prices are stable.

That a great theory but EX, I was alive when the silver was removed from circulation.

The events you described as the cause for this decision did NOT happen.

 

[expat_panama]

...a great theory but EX, I was alive when the silver was removed from circulation....

Changing the subject from historical fact to how smart you are does not change the historical fact. Don't get me wrong, most people it seems prefer these "I'm-better-than-you-pi$$-fights" and my preference to dealing with reality puts me in the minority. Go ahead and enjoy yourself but I'll pass, you'll find lots of others here to play with.

 

[Stashman]

The Fed was created by an act of Congress.
Why does printing silver certificates threaten the existence of the Fed or the evil bankers behind them? Spell it out.

Don't bogart that joint!

Because the silver certificates were worth their denominations and not penny's like our Fed notes are. Over time this would of became the chosen currency by the American public, and that would of ended the Fed in the long run. To have stopped printing Federal notes all at once would of been a disaster, so slowly phasing them in was the smarter move.

Sorry, they were both worth face value of the bill, no more, no less.

Not enough silver to replace all the FRNs and that still wouldn't have ended the Fed.

Right now the American dollar has a value of 53 cents. That's 47 cents below face value. The more of them they print the less they will be worth. This is the very reason that both China and Russia are calling for the removal of the U.S. dollar as the world reserve currency.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

International banking cartels are behind the Fed, not congress.
It seems you are a spinning wheel and just want to keep issues going nowhere. It's like your afraid of the truth because than you will have to admit that you do not live in sunshine and lollipop land.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

The Fed was created by an act of Congress.
Why does printing silver certificates threaten the existence of the Fed or the evil bankers behind them? Spell it out.

Don't bogart that joint!

1. the FED would NOT be behind those silver certificate, the TREASURY would.

So what? The only diffence I see is that as far as I know, Bernanke isn't a tax cheat.

2. Which would you rather have?

Dollars that you can convert to silver, or dollars that you cannot convert to silver?

Silver certificates would have created TWO CLASSES of money.

You realize there were silver certificates already in circulation?

Money people wanted (Silver certs) and money people didn't want (FED Reserve "notes")

You have any Federal Reserve notes you don't want? Maybe you could send them to me? I'll put them to good use.

Really. Todd, was that so difficult for you to figure out on your own?

No, figuring out the silliness of the Fed killed JFK theory was not difficult to figure out on my own.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Because the silver certificates were worth their denominations and not penny's like our Fed notes are. Over time this would of became the chosen currency by the American public, and that would of ended the Fed in the long run. To have stopped printing Federal notes all at once would of been a disaster, so slowly phasing them in was the smarter move.

Sorry, they were both worth face value of the bill, no more, no less.

Not enough silver to replace all the FRNs and that still wouldn't have ended the Fed.

Right now the American dollar has a value of 53 cents. That's 47 cents below face value.

That's awful! Tell you what, because I'm such a nice guy, I'll give you 60 cents for every American dollar you'd like to exchange. Hurry up, before I come to my senses.

The more of them they print the less they will be worth.

Only if the added supply outstrips demand.

This is the very reason that both China and Russia are calling for the removal of the U.S. dollar as the world reserve currency.

China and Russia are, of course, free to stop using US dollars. Personally, I prefer currency from countries not run by corrupt Communists. Of course, with Obama in office, we are rapidly moving their way.

 

[konkon]

Here are three articles/links that may interest you. You can draw your own conclusions.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...p_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection#articleTabs=article

Even Goldman Sachs Secretly Believes That An Economic Collapse Is Coming - ALL ECONOMISTS

How Goldman Sachs Made Tens Of Billions Of Dollars From The Economic Collapse Of America In Four Easy Steps

 

[konkon]

This came through a few minutes ago on Business & Financial News, Breaking US & International News | Reuters.com

U.S. to sue big banks over mortgage securities: report | Reuters

"(Reuters) - The agency that oversees mortgage markets is preparing to file suit against "more than a dozen" big U.S. banks, accusing them of misrepresenting the quality of mortgages they packaged and sold during the housing bubble, the New York Times reported on Thursday.

The Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is expected to file suit against Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank, among other banks, the Times reported, citing three unidentified individuals briefed on the matter."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here are three articles/links that may interest you. You can draw your own conclusions.


How Goldman Sachs Made Tens Of Billions Of Dollars From The Economic Collapse Of America In Four Easy Steps

Step 1: Sell mortgage-related securities that are absolute junk to trusting clients at vastly overinflated prices.

Step 2: Bet against those same mortgage-related securities and make massive bets against the U.S. housing market so that your firm will make massive profits when the U.S. economy collapses

How can they bet against the securities once they sold them?
Can you explain that?

 

[konkon]

Here are three articles/links that may interest you. You can draw your own conclusions.


How Goldman Sachs Made Tens Of Billions Of Dollars From The Economic Collapse Of America In Four Easy Steps

Step 1: Sell mortgage-related securities that are absolute junk to trusting clients at vastly overinflated prices.

Step 2: Bet against those same mortgage-related securities and make massive bets against the U.S. housing market so that your firm will make massive profits when the U.S. economy collapses

How can they bet against the securities once they sold them?
Can you explain that?

Good question for the author of the article, but I guess an investor could always use a different investment instrument to short the type of investment or asset class he or she held previously. Surely there are numerous and creative ways to short or bet against an asset class, even after one has sold that same asset class, on the original hope it would increase in value. Not saying Goldman did this. A good question for the author or anyone else that may have a good understanding of these types of investment models/instruments.

Cheers

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here are three articles/links that may interest you. You can draw your own conclusions.


How Goldman Sachs Made Tens Of Billions Of Dollars From The Economic Collapse Of America In Four Easy Steps

Step 1: Sell mortgage-related securities that are absolute junk to trusting clients at vastly overinflated prices.

Step 2: Bet against those same mortgage-related securities and make massive bets against the U.S. housing market so that your firm will make massive profits when the U.S. economy collapses

How can they bet against the securities once they sold them?
Can you explain that?

Good question for the author of the article, but I guess an investor could always use a different investment instrument to short the type of investment or asset class he or she held previously. Surely there are numerous and creative ways to short or bet against an asset class, even after one has sold that same asset class, on the original hope it would increase in value. Not saying Goldman did this. A good question for the author or anyone else that may have a good understanding of these types of investment models/instruments.

Cheers

It's obvious the author doesn't know enough to understand the question.

 

[B94]

Quote: Originally Posted by editec1.
the FED would NOT be behind those silver certificate, the TREASURY would.

Quote: Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
So what? The only diffence I see is that as far as I know, Bernanke isn't a tax cheat.

The difference is that since the Fed owns the Federal Reserve Notes (the currency) and the Government doesn't, the Government has to borrow what should be its own currency from the Fed. This is a real good deal for the Fed and a very bad deal for the American taxpayers.

It basically works like this - The Government says it wants to borrow 1 billon dollars from the Fed. The Fed says OK as long as the government will tax the citizens to repay the loan with interest. The Government agrees and the deal is made. The Fed calls the Treasury and tells them to print 1 billon dollars and give it to the Government. With this one phone call the Fed makes 1 billon dollars plus interest.

Without the Fed the Government calls the Treasury and tells them to print 1 billon dollars. No money is owed and no interest is owed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Quote: Originally Posted by editec1.
the FED would NOT be behind those silver certificate, the TREASURY would.

Quote: Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
So what? The only diffence I see is that as far as I know, Bernanke isn't a tax cheat.

The difference is that since the Fed owns the Federal Reserve Notes (the currency) and the Government doesn't, the Government has to borrow what should be its own currency from the Fed. This is a real good deal for the Fed and a very bad deal for the American taxpayers.

The Fed doesn't own my FRNs, anymore than the Treasury owns my silver certificates. The Treasury doesn't borrow FRNs from the Fed. They don't borrow (or use) FRNs from anyone.

It basically works like this - The Government says it wants to borrow 1 billon dollars from the Fed. The Fed says OK as long as the government will tax the citizens to repay the loan with interest. The Government agrees and the deal is made. The Fed calls the Treasury and tells them to print 1 billon dollars and give it to the Government. With this one phone call the Fed makes 1 billon dollars plus interest.

The Treasury doesn't borrow from the Fed. The Treasury doesn't use printed money at all.

Without the Fed the Government calls the Treasury and tells them to print 1 billon dollars. No money is owed and no interest is owed.

Yeah, great idea. The government should print money to pay their bills. Brilliant!

 

[B94]

Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
The Fed doesn't own my FRNs, anymore than the Treasury owns my silver certificates.

I’m talking about who has the power to order the currency printed. It sure isn’t you. And yes this is simplified to show who controls the money supply and it is NOT the Treasury or the Government. It’s the Federal Reserve. That’s why the currency says Federal Reserve Note on it. Because a private bank the Federal Reserve owns it (controls it).

Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
Yeah, great idea. The government should print money to pay their bills. Brilliant!

It would be a lot better than borrowing from the Fed (having the Fed print the money). The money gets printed either way (created out of the air) but one way the taxpayers have to repay it the other way they don’t.
If you think paying the Fed to basically do nothing that the Government couldn’t do for free is better your Brilliant!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
The Fed doesn't own my FRNs, anymore than the Treasury owns my silver certificates.

I’m talking about who has the power to order the currency printed. It sure isn’t you. And yes this is simplified to show who controls the money supply and it is NOT the Treasury or the Government. It’s the Federal Reserve. That’s why the currency says Federal Reserve Note on it. Because a private bank the Federal Reserve owns it (controls it).

Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
Yeah, great idea. The government should print money to pay their bills. Brilliant!

It would be a lot better than borrowing from the Fed (having the Fed print the money). The money gets printed either way (created out of the air) but one way the taxpayers have to repay it the other way they don’t.
If you think paying the Fed to basically do nothing that the Government couldn’t do for free is better your Brilliant!

The Fed can print money. So what?

The Treasury doesn't borrow FRNs, why do the taxpayers have to repay what the Treasury didn't borrow?

 

[B94]

Originally Posted by Toddsterpatriot
The Treasury doesn't borrow FRNs, why do the taxpayers have to repay what the Treasury didn't borrow?

The Federal Reserve only creates money thru debt whether it’s Federal Reserve Notes or thru buying Government bonds. The Treasury only prints money it doesn’t borrow it. The Government borrows money from the Fed. This is why the biggest share of the national debt is owed to the Federal Reserve. If the Government didn’t have to borrow money from the Fed almost half the national debt would be gone.

"The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole...Their secret is that they have annexed from governments, monarchies, and republics the power to create the world's money..."

The above quote was taken from here -

The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America

 

[expat_panama]

...The Treasury only prints money it doesn’t borrow it. The Government borrows money from the Fed...

No, the borrowing is done by the Treasury Dept. When people want to loan money to the US gov't they buy a US Savings Bond from the US Treasury Dept. at Individual - Buy EE Savings Bonds or a T-bill from the US Treasury at TreasuryDirect.

...This is why the biggest share of the national debt is owed to the Federal Reserve. If the Government didn’t have to borrow money from the Fed almost half the national debt would be gone...

No, the US government owes more than two thirds of its debt to people, and less than a third is owed to other US gov't agencies. Here's what's owed this morning:

The up to the minute balance is at Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

 

[editec]

The powers behind the Fed?
You mean Congress?
Yeah, I'll disprove your silly conspiracy.
Pass me the weed first.

International banking cartels are behind the Fed, not congress.
It seems you are a spinning wheel and just want to keep issues going nowhere. It's like your afraid of the truth because than you will have to admit that you do not live in sunshine and lollipop land.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

The Fed was created by an act of Congress.
Why does printing silver certificates threaten the existence of the Fed or the evil bankers behind them? Spell it out.

Don't bogart that joint!

Becuase who would choose fiat money when money with silver certificates were available?

Which would YOU rather have?

A silver certificate dollar that you can trade in for about an OZ of silver at any bank, or a piece of paper backed by nothing?

The FEDs power is that it can issue any amount of fiat dollars it chooses to issue.

If people had a superior form of specie, the FED would have virtually no power whatever.

Nobody would want to use their money.

Seriously, is that really hard to understand?

 

[B94]

...The Treasury only prints money it doesn’t borrow it. The Government borrows money from the Fed...

No, the borrowing is done by the Treasury Dept. When people want to loan money to the US gov't they buy a US Savings Bond from the US Treasury Dept. at Individual - Buy EE Savings Bonds or a T-bill from the US Treasury at TreasuryDirect.

...This is why the biggest share of the national debt is owed to the Federal Reserve. If the Government didn’t have to borrow money from the Fed almost half the national debt would be gone...

No, the US government owes more than two thirds of its debt to people, and less than a third is owed to other US gov't agencies. Here's what's owed this morning:

The up to the minute balance is at Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

The debt owed to the Federal Reserve is listed as public debt.
Treasury’s Financial Management Service (FMS) compiles data in the “Treasury Bulletin” tables FD-2 and FD-6 from the “Monthly Statement of the Public Debt of the United States.”
Table FD-1 summarizes the Federal debt by listing public debt and agency securities held by the public, including the Federal Reserve.
The last time I checked the debt owed to the Fed was at least 40 percent of the national debt.