The Death of the American Catholic Church

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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The American RC Church was, and remains, the largest single religious denomination in the country, but it is on life supports with no real cure to be found. Seriously, it will die within our lifetimes.

I was raised in a robust Catholic Church, where most Catholic kids attended parochial schools, and most of them continued for the entire K-12 period. The schools were generally better than the public schools (at least where I live), with a higher percentage going to college, more national merit scholars, higher average SAT's and so on. (somewhat due to the fact that a Catholic school could expel undesirables, which a public school cannot).

But a number of factors have injured the Church, and I believe that the wounds are mortal.

Public education has become much more expensive, and the taxes to pay for it more burdensome. At the same time, parents of parochial school students are being asked to pay more for educating their children (previously the parish paid almost all of the cost). When confronted with high property taxes and "high" tuition costs on top of that, most Catholic parents elect to send their kids to public schools, planning to provide a good Catholic education at home, and with an hour or so of religious ed once a week at church. It ain't working.

Public schools have become more and more intrusive into the lives of the students. Sports and other extracurricular activities extend into the evenings and weekends (thankfully, not Sundays), and leave little spare time for Church or Church-related activities. And Sunday morning soccer practice has become more important to parents and kids than going to church. Pity.

The child abuse scandal has had a two-pronged effect: (1) some parents truly believe there is a serious threat of their kids being abused in Catholic schools now, and (2) some parents use the scandal as an excuse to drop religion from their lives.

The Church has refused to adopt the two measures that could have helped to shore up the crumbling walls when it most counted: Married priests, and women priests. And the Church is still adamant that it will "never" implement these changes, even though the prohibitions rest on very shaky (or non-existent) Scriptural justification.

The prevailing culture disdains some of the Church's main moral teachings. The shunning of divorced and remarried Catholics, the prohibition of "artificial birth control," the absolute prohibition of abortion, and the moral condemnation of "homosexual acts," are out of touch with the prevailing culture. They all may be morally and scripturally defensible, but people just don't feel comfortable with them. Further, the population just does not accept a mandate to attend church every Sunday, or to go to confession at least once a year.

According to the Church's own figures, only 15% of baptized Catholics attend church regularly by the time they are 21 years old. And that is obviously based on the prevailing conditions 21 years ago. For today's baptisms, what are we looking at? 5%?

The priesthood is an archaic, dying institution, inhabited largely by closeted homosexuals and misfits. The few all-stars that remain (including my own pastor) are extraordinary people, deserving more praise than mere words can provide. But there are too few of them around. And the seminaries are virtually empty.

Parishes - the former lifeblood of the Church - are being closed and consolidated into oblivion. The Church leadership doesn't "get" that people associate themselves with a parish that their family may have belonged to for generations, and will not keep coming when that is merely a building or a "campus" which is one of a number of other ones in a "cluster." And "we" will not continue to support a "cluster" in the same way that we have supported our "parish," particularly when "we" paid tens of thousands of dollars to build the church, school, activities building, and so on.

At the national level, the Catholic Church is all-in with the recruiting and catering to Hispanics, both legal and otherwise. Cardinal DiNardo, head of the American church, has said HIS focus for the foreseeable future will be to do everything he can to "comfort" those Hispanics (I hate that term) who are made uncomfortable by the advent of the Trump Administration,

In Western Europe, the only people going to Sunday Mass are white-hairs and foreigners, and the occasional mother with children. these majestic cathedrals, basilicas and other churches have become little more than museums where architecture and artwork of past centuries are observed and photographed.

By the time that the last Boomer dies, the Catholic Church in America will be saying Mass mainly in Spanish.

My Church is dying.
 
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People don't go to church to have the current morality repeated. They can get that from Hollywood.


THey go to church to be told that they are right to stay apart from that.
 
The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.
 
The American RC Church was, and remains, the largest single religious denomination in the country, but it is on life supports with no real cure to be found. Seriously, it will die within our lifetimes.

I was raised in a robust Catholic Church, where most Catholic kids attended parochial schools, and most of them continued for the entire K-12 period. The schools were generally better than the public schools (at least where I live), with a higher percentage going to college, more national merit scholars, higher average SAT's and so on. (somewhat due to the fact that a Catholic school could expel undesirables, which a public school cannot).

But a number of factors have injured the Church, and I believe that the wounds are mortal.

Public education has become much more expensive, and the taxes to pay for it more burdensome. At the same time, parents of parochial school students are being asked to pay more for educating their children (previously the parish paid almost all of the cost). When confronted with high property taxes and "high" tuition costs on top of that, most Catholic parents elect to send their kids to public schools, planning to provide a good Catholic education at home, and with an hour or so of religious ed once a week at church. It ain't working.

Public schools have become more and more intrusive into the lives of the students. Sports and other extracurricular activities extend into the evenings and weekends (thankfully, not Sundays), and leave little spare time for Church or Church-related activities. And Sunday morning soccer practice has become more important to parents and kids than going to church. Pity.

The child abuse scandal has had a two-pronged effect: (1) some parents truly believe there is a serious threat of their kids being abused in Catholic schools now, and (2) some parents use the scandal as an excuse to drop religion from their lives.

The Church has refused to adopt the two measures that could have helped to shore up the crumbling walls when it most counted: Married priests, and women priests. And the Church is still adamant that it will "never" implement these changes, even though the prohibitions rest on very shaky (or non-existent) Scriptural justification.

The prevailing culture disdains some of the Church's main moral teachings. The shunning of divorced and remarried Catholics, the prohibition of "artificial birth control," the absolute prohibition of abortion, and the moral condemnation of "homosexual acts," are out of touch with the prevailing culture. They all may be morally and scripturally defensible, but people just don't feel comfortable with them. Further, the population just does not accept a mandate to attend church every Sunday, or to go to confession at least once a year.

According to the Church's own figures, only 15% of baptized Catholics attend church regularly by the time they are 21 years old. And that is obviously based on the prevailing conditions 21 years ago. For today's baptisms, what are we looking at? 5%?

The priesthood is an archaic, dying institution, inhabited largely by closeted homosexuals and misfits. The few all-stars that remain (including my own pastor) are extraordinary people, deserving more praise than mere words can provide. But there are too few of them around. And the seminaries are virtually empty.

Parishes - the former lifeblood of the Church - are being closed and consolidated into oblivion. The Church leadership doesn't "get" that people associate themselves with a parish that their family may have belonged to for generations, and will not keep coming when that is merely a building or a "campus" which is one of a number of other ones in a "cluster." And "we" will not continue to support a "cluster" in the same way that we have supported our "parish," particularly when "we" paid tens of thousands of dollars to build the church, school, activities building, and so on.

At the national level, the Catholic Church is all-in with the recruiting and catering to Hispanics, both legal and otherwise. Cardinal DiNardo, head of the American church, has said HIS focus for the foreseeable future will be to do everything he can to "comfort" those Hispanics (I hate that term) who are made uncomfortable by the advent of the Trump Administration,

In Western Europe, the only people going to Sunday Mass are white-hairs and foreigners, and the occasional mother with children. these majestic cathedrals, basilicas and other churches have become little more than museums where architecture and artwork of past centuries are observed and photographed.

By the time that the last Boomer dies, the Catholic Church in America will be saying Mass mainly in Spanish.

My Church is dying.
Where I attend mass it is packed.

Maybe you just need to find a new parish.
 
The American RC Church was, and remains, the largest single religious denomination in the country, but it is on life supports with no real cure to be found. Seriously, it will die within our lifetimes.

I was raised in a robust Catholic Church, where most Catholic kids attended parochial schools, and most of them continued for the entire K-12 period. The schools were generally better than the public schools (at least where I live), with a higher percentage going to college, more national merit scholars, higher average SAT's and so on. (somewhat due to the fact that a Catholic school could expel undesirables, which a public school cannot).

But a number of factors have injured the Church, and I believe that the wounds are mortal.

Public education has become much more expensive, and the taxes to pay for it more burdensome. At the same time, parents of parochial school students are being asked to pay more for educating their children (previously the parish paid almost all of the cost). When confronted with high property taxes and "high" tuition costs on top of that, most Catholic parents elect to send their kids to public schools, planning to provide a good Catholic education at home, and with an hour or so of religious ed once a week at church. It ain't working.

Public schools have become more and more intrusive into the lives of the students. Sports and other extracurricular activities extend into the evenings and weekends (thankfully, not Sundays), and leave little spare time for Church or Church-related activities. And Sunday morning soccer practice has become more important to parents and kids than going to church. Pity.

The child abuse scandal has had a two-pronged effect: (1) some parents truly believe there is a serious threat of their kids being abused in Catholic schools now, and (2) some parents use the scandal as an excuse to drop religion from their lives.

The Church has refused to adopt the two measures that could have helped to shore up the crumbling walls when it most counted: Married priests, and women priests. And the Church is still adamant that it will "never" implement these changes, even though the prohibitions rest on very shaky (or non-existent) Scriptural justification.

The prevailing culture disdains some of the Church's main moral teachings. The shunning of divorced and remarried Catholics, the prohibition of "artificial birth control," the absolute prohibition of abortion, and the moral condemnation of "homosexual acts," are out of touch with the prevailing culture. They all may be morally and scripturally defensible, but people just don't feel comfortable with them. Further, the population just does not accept a mandate to attend church every Sunday, or to go to confession at least once a year.

According to the Church's own figures, only 15% of baptized Catholics attend church regularly by the time they are 21 years old. And that is obviously based on the prevailing conditions 21 years ago. For today's baptisms, what are we looking at? 5%?

The priesthood is an archaic, dying institution, inhabited largely by closeted homosexuals and misfits. The few all-stars that remain (including my own pastor) are extraordinary people, deserving more praise than mere words can provide. But there are too few of them around. And the seminaries are virtually empty.

Parishes - the former lifeblood of the Church - are being closed and consolidated into oblivion. The Church leadership doesn't "get" that people associate themselves with a parish that their family may have belonged to for generations, and will not keep coming when that is merely a building or a "campus" which is one of a number of other ones in a "cluster." And "we" will not continue to support a "cluster" in the same way that we have supported our "parish," particularly when "we" paid tens of thousands of dollars to build the church, school, activities building, and so on.

At the national level, the Catholic Church is all-in with the recruiting and catering to Hispanics, both legal and otherwise. Cardinal DiNardo, head of the American church, has said HIS focus for the foreseeable future will be to do everything he can to "comfort" those Hispanics (I hate that term) who are made uncomfortable by the advent of the Trump Administration,

In Western Europe, the only people going to Sunday Mass are white-hairs and foreigners, and the occasional mother with children. these majestic cathedrals, basilicas and other churches have become little more than museums where architecture and artwork of past centuries are observed and photographed.

By the time that the last Boomer dies, the Catholic Church in America will be saying Mass mainly in Spanish.

My Church is dying.
The death of the HRRC has been greatly exaggerated. Everything is cyclical. I wouldn't sweat it too much. Everything is ebb and flow.
 
The American RC Church was, and remains, the largest single religious denomination in the country, but it is on life supports with no real cure to be found. Seriously, it will die within our lifetimes.

I was raised in a robust Catholic Church, where most Catholic kids attended parochial schools, and most of them continued for the entire K-12 period. The schools were generally better than the public schools (at least where I live), with a higher percentage going to college, more national merit scholars, higher average SAT's and so on. (somewhat due to the fact that a Catholic school could expel undesirables, which a public school cannot).

But a number of factors have injured the Church, and I believe that the wounds are mortal.

Public education has become much more expensive, and the taxes to pay for it more burdensome. At the same time, parents of parochial school students are being asked to pay more for educating their children (previously the parish paid almost all of the cost). When confronted with high property taxes and "high" tuition costs on top of that, most Catholic parents elect to send their kids to public schools, planning to provide a good Catholic education at home, and with an hour or so of religious ed once a week at church. It ain't working.

Public schools have become more and more intrusive into the lives of the students. Sports and other extracurricular activities extend into the evenings and weekends (thankfully, not Sundays), and leave little spare time for Church or Church-related activities. And Sunday morning soccer practice has become more important to parents and kids than going to church. Pity.

The child abuse scandal has had a two-pronged effect: (1) some parents truly believe there is a serious threat of their kids being abused in Catholic schools now, and (2) some parents use the scandal as an excuse to drop religion from their lives.

The Church has refused to adopt the two measures that could have helped to shore up the crumbling walls when it most counted: Married priests, and women priests. And the Church is still adamant that it will "never" implement these changes, even though the prohibitions rest on very shaky (or non-existent) Scriptural justification.

The prevailing culture disdains some of the Church's main moral teachings. The shunning of divorced and remarried Catholics, the prohibition of "artificial birth control," the absolute prohibition of abortion, and the moral condemnation of "homosexual acts," are out of touch with the prevailing culture. They all may be morally and scripturally defensible, but people just don't feel comfortable with them. Further, the population just does not accept a mandate to attend church every Sunday, or to go to confession at least once a year.

According to the Church's own figures, only 15% of baptized Catholics attend church regularly by the time they are 21 years old. And that is obviously based on the prevailing conditions 21 years ago. For today's baptisms, what are we looking at? 5%?

The priesthood is an archaic, dying institution, inhabited largely by closeted homosexuals and misfits. The few all-stars that remain (including my own pastor) are extraordinary people, deserving more praise than mere words can provide. But there are too few of them around. And the seminaries are virtually empty.

Parishes - the former lifeblood of the Church - are being closed and consolidated into oblivion. The Church leadership doesn't "get" that people associate themselves with a parish that their family may have belonged to for generations, and will not keep coming when that is merely a building or a "campus" which is one of a number of other ones in a "cluster." And "we" will not continue to support a "cluster" in the same way that we have supported our "parish," particularly when "we" paid tens of thousands of dollars to build the church, school, activities building, and so on.

At the national level, the Catholic Church is all-in with the recruiting and catering to Hispanics, both legal and otherwise. Cardinal DiNardo, head of the American church, has said HIS focus for the foreseeable future will be to do everything he can to "comfort" those Hispanics (I hate that term) who are made uncomfortable by the advent of the Trump Administration,

In Western Europe, the only people going to Sunday Mass are white-hairs and foreigners, and the occasional mother with children. these majestic cathedrals, basilicas and other churches have become little more than museums where architecture and artwork of past centuries are observed and photographed.

By the time that the last Boomer dies, the Catholic Church in America will be saying Mass mainly in Spanish.

My Church is dying.
Where I attend mass it is packed.

Maybe you just need to find a new parish.
You are a kneeler? A fish eater? Color me surprised. No... color me shocked. I bet it really irks you that I am one too.
 
You are a kneeler? A fish eater? Color me surprised. No... color me shocked. I bet it really irks you that I am one too.
koshergrl is also Catholic and even though I disagree with you both on Philosophy and logic I am however glad that you are both among the blessed sacrament actually.
 
You are a kneeler? A fish eater? Color me surprised. No... color me shocked. I bet it really irks you that I am one too.
koshergrl is also Catholic and even though I disagree with you both on Philosophy and logic I am however glad that you are both among the blessed sacrament actually.
Thank you, brother. I am glad that you are able to look past my shortcomings.
 
You are a kneeler? A fish eater? Color me surprised. No... color me shocked. I bet it really irks you that I am one too.
koshergrl is also Catholic and even though I disagree with you both on Philosophy and logic I am however glad that you are both among the blessed sacrament actually.
My beliefs were greatly influenced by "The Phenomenon of Man." Are you familiar with this book?
 
My own parish is thriving. we have one of those "all-star" pastors. but we will shortly be consolidated into a "cluster" and lose our distinct identity. I may convert to Anglican.
 
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin - Wikipedia

I remember the beautiful young Catholic nun who taught us kids that as apes were evolving into man, at some point God gave one a soul.
So let me ask you this then, do you believe our Creator would not provide us evidence of His existence or ways in which we could tell the difference between doing good and rationalizing that we were doing good?
 
The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.
No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.
 
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin - Wikipedia

I remember the beautiful young Catholic nun who taught us kids that as apes were evolving into man, at some point God gave one a soul.
So let me ask you this then, do you believe our Creator would not provide us evidence of His existence or ways in which we could tell the difference between doing good and rationalizing that we were doing good?
I believe in a Deist (not a Theist) Philosophy God.

The Bible (Tenakh and/or New Testament) tell us very little about God himself.

We know He chose the Jews for whatever reason to convey the Body Of Christ Jesus to this Earth.

We know that Jesus is the Son Of God.

We know that The Holy Spirit is sent here to intervene for Jesus while he is away and seated at the right hand of God.

I suspect that Holy Mary Mother Of Christ sits at the left hand of God next to Him and to Jesus.

I suspect we are given the Greek New Testament to decipher for ourselves all that we need to know about Jesus and God and Holy Mary and The Holy Spirit.

I believe the Holy Catholic Church has gone through phases of good and evil and good again.

I love the Pope. I love Jesus too. I am not afraid to disagree with them however.

I love God and Holy Mary and the Holy Spirit as well.

I believe the purpose of God is to put us through trials to prove our faithfulness and devotion.

Belief is a matter of faith until such time as God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit or Holy Mary appears to us in person and we can see Them, hear Them, touch Them and thus KNOW them.
 

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