The Death of the American Catholic Church

[yiostheoy]

My own parish is thriving. we have one of those "all-star" pastors. but we will shortly be consolidated into a "cluster" and lose our distinct identity. I may convert to Anglican.

The Anglicans have lesbian female priests. Would you take communion from something like that ??

 

[ding]

...do you know who Pierre Teilhard de Chardin is?

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin - Wikipedia

I remember the beautiful young Catholic nun who taught us kids that as apes were evolving into man, at some point God gave one a soul.

So let me ask you this then, do you believe our Creator would not provide us evidence of His existence or ways in which we could tell the difference between doing good and rationalizing that we were doing good?

I believe in a Deist (not a Theist) Philosophy God.

The Bible (Tenakh and/or New Testament) tell us very little about God himself.

We know He chose the Jews for whatever reason to convey the Body Of Christ Jesus to this Earth.

We know that Jesus is the Son Of God.

We know that The Holy Spirit is sent here to intervene for Jesus while he is away and seated at the right hand of God.

I suspect that Holy Mary Mother Of Christ sits at the left hand of God next to Him and to Jesus.

I suspect we are given the Greek New Testament to decipher for ourselves all that we need to know about Jesus and God and Holy Mary and The Holy Spirit.

I believe the Holy Catholic Church has gone through phases of good and evil and good again.

I love the Pope. I love Jesus too. I am not afraid to disagree with them however.

I love God and Holy Mary and the Holy Spirit as well.

I believe the purpose of God is to put us through trials to prove our faithfulness and devotion.

Belief is a matter of faith until such time as God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit or Holy Mary appears to us in person and we can see Them, hear Them, touch Them and thus KNOW them.

So you don't believe He has given us reason to have our faith from what He has made?

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. (Romans 1:18-25 ESV)

 

[Blackrook]

The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years and it isn't going anywhere.

All the problems the Church is having now are like nothing compared to the problems it had during the Middle Ages, when corruption within the Church was rampant and even the Popes were having illegitimate children and getting away with it.

 

[ding]

My own parish is thriving. we have one of those "all-star" pastors. but we will shortly be consolidated into a "cluster" and lose our distinct identity. I may convert to Anglican.

The Anglicans have lesbian female priests. Would you take communion from something like that ??

Sure. Why not?

 

[Blackrook]

All the criticisms the OP leveled at the Catholic Church assume that the Church's problems stem from the fact that it has not compromised its teachings to attract more people.

My belief is the opposite, and this is based on reality, which is that parishes that are more traditional and true to authentic to Church teaching are thriving, while parishes controlled by liberals who water down teachings have more problems getting people to come to Mass.

The teaching on birth control is a keystone teaching upon which the entire structure of the Church's teachings on sexuality depend. If the Church changed this teaching, then all the rest would collapse. And that is why the Protestant churches are collapsing, because they changed their teaching on birth control.

And that is because of the logic behind the teaching on birth control: sexuality must ALWAYS be open to the creation of human life. Any form of sex that is not open to the creation of human life is a sin. This covers a lot of ground, like masturbation, sodomy, sex with condoms, sex with the IUD, sex with the pill, and sex with robots (this will happen). The only form of non-sinful sex is penis-vagina sex between a husband and wife, not using birth control.

 

[Pete7469]

The Catholic Church was infested by leftists, and it has always been a statist authoritarian institution.

Anything leftists infiltrate is doomed to disappear.

 

[Blackrook]

The Catholic Church was infested by leftists, and it has always been a statist authoritarian institution.

Anything leftists infiltrate is doomed to disappear.

The Catholic Church will endure until the Second Coming of Christ. The infiltration of evildoers can harm the Church, but it cannot destroy the Church. If the Church could be destroyed, it would have happened already.

 

[Pete7469]

The Catholic Church will endure until the Second Coming of Christ. The infiltration of evildoers can harm the Church, but it cannot destroy the Church. If the Church could be destroyed, it would have happened already.

Point taken.

Hopefully the institution will be purged of leftists one day. It's hard to get rid of those parasites though.

 

[BreezeWood]

The Catholic Church was infested by leftists, and it has always been a statist authoritarian institution.

Anything leftists infiltrate is doomed to disappear.

The Catholic Church will endure until the Second Coming of Christ. The infiltration of evildoers can harm the Church, but it cannot destroy the Church. If the Church could be destroyed, it would have happened already.

.

The Catholic Church will endure until the Second Coming of Christ ... If the Church could be destroyed, it would have happened already.

excluding the reformations or in lew with them it has already happened for its survival ... by proxy than just cause.

.

 

[ding]

The Catholic Church was infested by leftists, and it has always been a statist authoritarian institution.

Anything leftists infiltrate is doomed to disappear.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is quite conservative.

 

[ding]

The Catholic Church was infested by leftists, and it has always been a statist authoritarian institution.

Anything leftists infiltrate is doomed to disappear.

The Catholic Church will endure until the Second Coming of Christ. The infiltration of evildoers can harm the Church, but it cannot destroy the Church. If the Church could be destroyed, it would have happened already.

.

The Catholic Church will endure until the Second Coming of Christ ... If the Church could be destroyed, it would have happened already.

excluding the reformations or in lew with them it has already happened for its survival ... by proxy than just cause.

.

Matthew 16:18

 

[DGS49]

The Catholic Church will endure, there is no question about it. I am referring to the social and cultural institution of the Catholic Church in America. In short, the Church that I grew up in. It is dying, for the reasons mentioned.

And at a time when we need a Pope who is unapologetic in affirming our beliefs, we get a socialist hack from South America who asks, "Who are we to judge?"

Well...you're the fucking POPE, for one thing! You can't judge people's hearts, that's for God alone, but you can judge BEHAVIOR, asshole!

And I am not suggesting that the Church "change its mind" on artificial birth control, abortion, divorce, or homosexuality. What I am suggesting is that its positions on these issues run counter to the prevailing culture, and drive away those who are not committed to their faith and to the teachings of the Church. I, for one, am happy that the Church, for example, marches on Washington every year on the anniversary of Roe v Wade, to tell the American people and government that "we" consider abortion to be morally abhorrent.

 

[Fenton Lum]

The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

We just said exactly the same thing; The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Would you abolish Christianity if you could? Would you like to burn Christians at the stake too?

Sometimes you people take care of that yourselves, toward each other.

 

[ding]

The Catholic Church will endure, there is no question about it. I am referring to the social and cultural institution of the Catholic Church in America. In short, the Church that I grew up in. It is dying, for the reasons mentioned.

And at a time when we need a Pope who is unapologetic in affirming our beliefs, we get a socialist hack from South America who asks, "Who are we to judge?"

Well...you're the fucking POPE, for one thing! You can't judge people's hearts, that's for God alone, but you can judge BEHAVIOR, asshole!

And I am not suggesting that the Church "change its mind" on artificial birth control, abortion, divorce, or homosexuality. What I am suggesting is that its positions on these issues run counter to the prevailing culture, and drive away those who are not committed to their faith and to the teachings of the Church. I, for one, am happy that the Church, for example, marches on Washington every year on the anniversary of Roe v Wade, to tell the American people and government that "we" consider abortion to be morally abhorrent.

We are not called to judge the person just the behavior. That is what is meant by who are we to judge. I believe he is intentionally vague sometimes. Your observations are not necessarily incorrect. The positions of the Church have not changed and they are counter to the prevailing culture of SOME. That too is cyclical though. During times of crisis people return to conservative values.

 

[ding]

The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

We just said exactly the same thing; The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No. We did not say the exact same thing. You are saying it has been all bad, I am saying that when we weight the good and the bad, that by any objective measure it has been a force for good.

 

[Fenton Lum]

The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

We just said exactly the same thing; The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No. We did not say the exact same thing. You are saying it has been all bad, I am saying that when we weight the good and the bad, that by any objective measure it has been a force for good.

I didn't say anything about good, bad, or indifferent, I merely stated the reality. If you think those things were bad, that's your take on it; many think those were good things.

 

[ding]

The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

We just said exactly the same thing; The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No. We did not say the exact same thing. You are saying it has been all bad, I am saying that when we weight the good and the bad, that by any objective measure it has been a force for good.

I didn't say anything about good, bad, or indifferent, I merely stated the reality. If you think those things were bad, that's your take on it; many think those were good things.

Funny but I didn't see any good that you attributed to them. Did I miss that?

 

[Fenton Lum]

The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

We just said exactly the same thing; The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No. We did not say the exact same thing. You are saying it has been all bad, I am saying that when we weight the good and the bad, that by any objective measure it has been a force for good.

I didn't say anything about good, bad, or indifferent, I merely stated the reality. If you think those things were bad, that's your take on it; many think those were good things.

Funny but I didn't see any good that you attributed to them. Did I miss that?

You miss quite a lot.

 

[ding]

No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the HRCC.

We just said exactly the same thing; The Roman Catholic Church was the first multinational corporation and as such went about the world in the typical pillage and plunder manner. As with many of the male dominator god religions, it has always been much much more about guilt, sin, and blame than spirituality basd upon Christ's message of love, grace, and forgiveness.

No. We did not say the exact same thing. You are saying it has been all bad, I am saying that when we weight the good and the bad, that by any objective measure it has been a force for good.

I didn't say anything about good, bad, or indifferent, I merely stated the reality. If you think those things were bad, that's your take on it; many think those were good things.

Funny but I didn't see any good that you attributed to them. Did I miss that?

You miss quite a lot.

I don't deny that, but in this specific instance did I miss the good that you attributed to the Catholic Church?