The dangers of cutting social programs

[GotZoom]

Well, you see, when I was a little girl, my dad made me a promise. If made all A's and B's, never got into trouble and never used drugs, one day I would be able to go home to the Armadillo. There, I could hang out with Jerry Jeff Walker and drink Shiner Bock with all the rest of the prettiest women you've ever seen. Unfortunately, developers moved in and turned the Dillo into a parking lot. But I kept my side of the bargain. In return, I was able to visit Austin, eat at Threadgills, shop at Waterloo and pogo at Emos.



I was referring to youth crime. Do you know why kids join street gangs? Most of them don't have anything better to do. How many gangs of suburban white kids are there?

Nice to see that your parents (at least your dad) took responsiblity for your upbringing. He gave you motivation to do well. I see you didn't mention anything about your dad taking you to the local park, etc.

Your "success" is due to the motivation you received as a youth to do well in life and school.

That motivation came from your parents.

Imagine that.

 

[GotZoom]

Quite a few. Where do you think they get their drugs? This assumption that affluence sets off the dangers of gangs isn't helpful or truthful. What they need are their peers to stop pushing activity such as this and start pushing the same activity that keeps the affluent actually affluent. Schoolwork, teamwork, education, this is what they should push on each other as the path to success, however too often those they look up to for leadership are telling them they cannot make it without their special kind of "help" to "equalize things".

What they really need is their "leaders" to stop telling them they can't make it without the help of "The Man", and their peers to realize that their actions become their future. Too often their "leaders" tell them that they have little worth to society as a whole and there is no way they will ever get out of what they have without the Government support that perpetuates such thought. It becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.

The assumption that a nice park will stop people who are constantly pumped with the thought that they have no hope to succeed from turning to crime is a warped assumption based solely on left-leaning opinion written by the very "leadership" that tells them they will fail. Then other well-meaning people repeat some of the very words from the "leadership" that constantly harps on them having no hope. All they need are parks....No, what they need is a bit of Truth from those that "lead" them.

 

[archangel]

Don't forget AG Gonzales, he was an immigrant without the use of English when he first arrived. It is always amazing that the most diverse Administration in history is always assumed to be racist in some way.

Just wanted someone else to add to the list...thanks...also the US Supreme Court Justice who was appointed by the Conservatives was from lower class black roots...the list goes on and on...except for the Liberal Demos who have a really weak history on practicing what they preach........... :teeth:

 

[dilloduck]

Try reading "Do Or Die" by Leon Bing. Or "A Social History of Gangs."

Thanks---your really getting the hang of this !!

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

I was referring to youth crime. Do you know why kids join street gangs? Most of them don't have anything better to do. How many gangs of suburban white kids are there?

we can go forever and a day talking about why kids join gangs. I think it's different for different kids. Most of the reasons stem from their home life.

To go back to what started the thread, I think the question most people have about building parks and whatnot, is: Why should it soley be the governments place to do it?

Somebody posted way back in the thread, I can't remember who, that where they live the people in the city did things like this without the government. I lived in a place like this a few years ago. It was a pretty big city, but nothing the size of Austin or Dallas. Still, the gang problem was a growing one. Instead of waiting for the government to come in on a white horse, the people who were closest to the problem took matters into their own hands. Within a couple of years, there was an Eastside Girls and Boys Club, a Central Boys and Girls Club, a Southside Boys and Girls Club, The Mission (which also helped the homeless), and a couple of other smaller organization. They all worked to give the kids something to do, gave them projects, started choirs, and fixed up things like parks and swimming pools. Not a dime of the money they used came from the federal, state, or local government. It was started, maintained, and funded by the citizens.

Since then, the gang problem has dropped considerably. In fact, the majority of gang members are the ones that were already deep into it when these organizations started. They are older, well into their twenties, and you rarely find kids getting involved.

There are many reasons kids get involved with gangs, but instead of getting them out we should try to keep them from getting in to begin with. That's not going to take money from the government, that's going to take community involvement. Don't sit around waiting for the government to come along with a bag of money, do it yourself.

 

[OCA]

Well, you see, when I was a little girl, my dad made me a promise. If made all A's and B's, never got into trouble and never used drugs, one day I would be able to go home to the Armadillo. There, I could hang out with Jerry Jeff Walker and drink Shiner Bock with all the rest of the prettiest women you've ever seen. Unfortunately, developers moved in and turned the Dillo into a parking lot. But I kept my side of the bargain. In return, I was able to visit Austin, eat at Threadgills, shop at Waterloo and pogo at Emos.



I was referring to youth crime. Do you know why kids join street gangs? Most of them don't have anything better to do. How many gangs of suburban white kids are there?

They made a choice and joined the gang, its their fault. Quit making excuses for scumbags.

Gabby is the typical liberal, throw more money and create more programs to combat the problem. 40 years of Democratic rule in congress doing this, problems only grew.

 

[Gabriella84]

I hope you have a machine gun nest in your house. For when they come to visit you.

 

[Gabriella84]

There are many reasons kids get involved with gangs, but instead of getting them out we should try to keep them from getting in to begin with. That's not going to take money from the government, that's going to take community involvement. Don't sit around waiting for the government to come along with a bag of money, do it yourself.

The first problem with that is that the communities where gangs are most prevalent have very few resources to begin with. Everything has been allowed to degrade, since very outside sources are willing to invest in a place like Compton or Davis. Which is a shame, since Compton is pretty nice neighborhood. In the daytime, at least.

The way to curtail involvement in gangs is to start at the bottom. This is where my sister's husband Raul gets involved. He dropped out of school in eighth grade to join a street gang. A few years later, when he was in the hospital, the police gave him a choice: work with them or go to jail.
Now he has a GED, a community college degree and works to keep kids out of gangs. It's not easy, with gangs having become so romanticized on TV and in rap music.
Raul presents a pretty brutal program to elementary and middle school kids who choose to attend. He begins by showing his audience large, blown up pictures of three gang members. Then he shows pictures of the same three gang members after they had been shot and killed in a drive-by. He talks about beat-ins, drug deals gone bad, what happens to members if they snitch on (or try to leave) the gang, and what normally happens to female members. The conclusion is a film, captured on a security camera outside someone's house. You see a gang party -- lot of drinking and smoking, people carrying on. Then you see it invaded by a rival gang, which turns into a shootout. With several kids being shot on film.
It's powerful stuff, and would certainly dissuade me if I were on the fence.

 

[GotZoom]

The first problem with that is that the communities where gangs are most prevalent have very few resources to begin with. Everything has been allowed to degrade, since very outside sources are willing to invest in a place like Compton or Davis. Which is a shame, since Compton is pretty nice neighborhood. In the daytime, at least.

The way to curtail involvement in gangs is to start at the bottom. This is where my sister's husband Raul gets involved. He dropped out of school in eighth grade to join a street gang. A few years later, when he was in the hospital, the police gave him a choice: work with them or go to jail.
Now he has a GED, a community college degree and works to keep kids out of gangs. It's not easy, with gangs having become so romanticized on TV and in rap music.
Raul presents a pretty brutal program to elementary and middle school kids who choose to attend. He begins by showing his audience large, blown up pictures of three gang members. Then he shows pictures of the same three gang members after they had been shot and killed in a drive-by. He talks about beat-ins, drug deals gone bad, what happens to members if they snitch on (or try to leave) the gang, and what normally happens to female members. The conclusion is a film, captured on a security camera outside someone's house. You see a gang party -- lot of drinking and smoking, people carrying on. Then you see it invaded by a rival gang, which turns into a shootout. With several kids being shot on film.
It's powerful stuff, and would certainly dissuade me if I were on the fence.

1. These kids who see Raul's presentation - what are their parents doing about keeping them out of gangs?

2. Raul doesn't take them to a park or wherever...he does this in school.

 

[Said1]

The first problem with that is that the communities where gangs are most prevalent have very few resources to begin with. Everything has been allowed to degrade, since very outside sources are willing to invest in a place like Compton or Davis. Which is a shame, since Compton is pretty nice neighborhood. In the daytime, at least.

What about the people IN the community? Aren't there any business owners willing to shell out a few bucks to a good cause? If people want change, THEY have to fight for it and sometimes earn it themselves.

The way to curtail involvement in gangs is to start at the bottom.

True, but the acutal bottom is on the streets, with the kids or parents.

 

[Shattered]

Ok, this is probably *the* most immature thing I've seen to date, but I'll share anyway..

In another thread (I forget which one, but I think the one that's locked?) I suggested that Dillo probably got dinged for something by someone, which is why he's all grouchy, and accusing others of repping people for "trite" reasons..

This is his response - in the form of a negative rep:

The dangers of cutting ... 07-06-2005 09:33 AM dilloduck Hey look--someone dinged you too--I here it's the new thing! LOL

All hail the mighty man Dillo! WAY TO GO! WOO HOO!!

(You're a fucking idiot)

 

[Shattered]

Oh, I only shared here, because this is the post he thought worthy of a ding.

You're quick to shoot others' suggestions down - what's yours?

 

[OCA]

I hope you have a machine gun nest in your house. For when they come to visit you.

Gabby if you don't associate with these type of idiots they don't come to your house, period. Sounds like you hang out with these types of losers. Why do you constantly defend the lowest common denominators in society.

And believe me i'm well armed.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

The first problem with that is that the communities where gangs are most prevalent have very few resources to begin with. Everything has been allowed to degrade, since very outside sources are willing to invest in a place like Compton or Davis. Which is a shame, since Compton is pretty nice neighborhood. In the daytime, at least.

The way to curtail involvement in gangs is to start at the bottom. This is where my sister's husband Raul gets involved. He dropped out of school in eighth grade to join a street gang. A few years later, when he was in the hospital, the police gave him a choice: work with them or go to jail.
Now he has a GED, a community college degree and works to keep kids out of gangs. It's not easy, with gangs having become so romanticized on TV and in rap music.
Raul presents a pretty brutal program to elementary and middle school kids who choose to attend. He begins by showing his audience large, blown up pictures of three gang members. Then he shows pictures of the same three gang members after they had been shot and killed in a drive-by. He talks about beat-ins, drug deals gone bad, what happens to members if they snitch on (or try to leave) the gang, and what normally happens to female members. The conclusion is a film, captured on a security camera outside someone's house. You see a gang party -- lot of drinking and smoking, people carrying on. Then you see it invaded by a rival gang, which turns into a shootout. With several kids being shot on film.
It's powerful stuff, and would certainly dissuade me if I were on the fence.

There you go. That's pretty much what I'm saying. If there is a lackl of parental guidance, it needs to come from somewhere. If things have been allowed to degrade, build them back up. The place I was talking about got involved early on and prevented the gang problem from reaching the point of a place like Compton. Nobody is going to be able to put an end to gangs tomorrow, it will be a long process. Stop the gangs that will be running around three or four years down the road by getting to the kids now that will be joining in three or four years.

As far as the gang members now, it's a law enforcement issue. If some end up in jail, out of a dozen there might be one that can be turned around. But, at least that's one.

 

[no1tovote4]

I hope you have a machine gun nest in your house. For when they come to visit you.

No you don't, you hope laws would be passed so that only the gang members will have the guns to begin with!

:funnyface

 

[Gabriella84]

I am really shocked at how incredibly stupid and uninformed many of your are about gangs and their role in society. You don't have a clue about what is really happening.

 

[freeandfun1]

I am really shocked at how incredibly stupid and uninformed many of your are about gangs and their role in society. You don't have a clue about what is really happening.

We are equally shocked at how incredibly stupid and uninformed YOU are about... well hell, just about EVERYTHING.

 

[freeandfun1]

I am really shocked at how incredibly stupid and uninformed many of your are about gangs and their role in society. You don't have a clue about what is really happening.

BTW: Why don't you inform us? I bet many of us know a LOT more than you ever will.

 

[Mr. P]

I am really shocked at how incredibly stupid and uninformed many of your are about gangs and their role in society. You don't have a clue about what is really happening.

Gangs have a roll in society?
You are a fuckin idiot!

 

[Said1]

I am really shocked at how incredibly stupid and uninformed many of your are about gangs and their role in society. You don't have a clue about what is really happening.

For example (quote posters who are incredibly stupid and their comments here) then (post your alternative opinion/solution/examples here).

Thankyou, come again! (said with Apo accent).